Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Kidchameleon

Before mods thread-ban me for "soap boxing", which of course, everyone else is doing except me, I'm going to leave. I don't want to be thread banned on the 31st. Bye friends, I'm preparing a meme sh1storm for you all

Kidchameleon

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

apart from when you did

Where did I say "Boris" could disregard a law? I stated it was the government who would do so, look at the post you quoted and read it properly.

davedanon

Make sure you come back on the 31st, now.

alastair

interactive wrote: »

"We want a deal, but the pesky French wont give us one, they refuse to give us a extension, so we are not leaving without a deal, we are being kicked out!"

Boris would instantly rocket up the polls in Britain, he would win a election with a huge majority

There is no huge majority for Boris. Even if the French seized the Channel Islands.

davedanon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where did I say "Boris" could disregard a law? I stated it was the government who would do so, look at the post you quoted and read it properly.

Now who's being semantic?

Kidchameleon

alastair wrote: »

They have enacted a law to ensure that doesn’t happen.

Not yet they havnt.

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Before mods thread-ban me for "soap boxing", which of course, everyone else is doing except me, I'm going to leave. I don't want to be thread banned on the 31st. Bye friends, I'm preparing a meme sh1storm for you all

On the 31st, the UK will still be in the EU and you will still be in denial.

alastair

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where did I say "Boris" could disregard a law? I stated it was the government who would do so, look at the post you quoted and read it properly.

You said a Boris-led government. And you were wrong. No law can be disregarded by any government. They can take their chances in parliament repealing a law, but they are beholden to the law until parliament, not government repeals.

alastair

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Not yet they havnt.

It’ll be in place when needed.

Kidchameleon

alastair wrote: »

You said a Boris-led government. And you were wrong. No law can be disregarded by any government. They can take their chances in parliament repealing a law, but they are beholden to the law until parliament, not government repeals.

Which I have not denied.

McMurphy

alastair wrote: »

You said a Boris-led government. And you were wrong. No law can be disregarded by any government. They can take their chances in parliament repealing a law, but they are beholden to the law until parliament, not government repeals.

This will be roughly the 67th time this will have been pointed out to this poster, I think an actual chameleon would absorb more information than this one seems able to.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

According to UK law it is a perfectly acceptable margin. Id bet you wouldnt be complaining if 51% voted remain. A very typical EU attitude there. They are leaving, deal with it

You said:

Kidchameleon wrote:

British people want to leave

I was simply pointing out that 51% voted to leave. By all means say the majority of British people want to leave, but it is incorrect to say Britain wants to leave.

And I am dealing with it. I'm stock piling Irn Bru in case of a no deal, and on payday I'll be buying a couple of bottles of Glenfiddich and Glenmorangie, in case they aren't available come Christmas.

accensi0n

Kidchameleon wrote: »

alastair wrote: »

You said a Boris-led government. And you were wrong. No law can be disregarded by any government. They can take their chances in parliament repealing a law, but they are beholden to the law until parliament, not government repeals.

Which I have not denied.

You're just like the UK, bad at leaving.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Perhaps I don't. Answer me this, assuming the bill becomes law, assuming a GE is called, assuming Boris remains PM but with a majority, can he remove the bill from law?

In this fantasy new parliament Boris can put forward another a bill calling for that legislation to be repealed. That bill will then have to be approved by Parliament.
What he cannot do- as you have been claiming - is simply disregard it.

As this legislation has a time limit - i.e. it states that an extension must be requested by a set date - Boris will not have have a majority (even if he managed to get such a thing in a GE) before that date is reached so there is sweet FA he can do about it from a Parliamentary perspective.

He can ignore it - which means breaking the law.
He can resign - or 'surrender' to put it another way.
He can try and get a GE called - unlikely as he needs Parliament for that.

knipex

alastair wrote: »

They have enacted a law to ensure that doesn’t happen. The likelihood is that article 50 would be revoked to ensure sufficient time for a renegotiated exit deal.

UK parliament enacts a law in UK not in Europe.

If the UK fails to get an extension and fails to agree a deal then the default in a hard Brexit at the end of November.. it does not matter how many laws ruling out no deal the UK parliament passes. Extension or not they have 3 options

Approve the negotiated deal
Revoke A 50
Hard Brexit.

If they dotn pick option 1 or 2 then it is option 3 by default.


Corbyns talk of a new deal is just as much nonsense as Boris's talk of a new deal. All the extension does is delay that decision and there is zero evidence that in 3 months, 6 months, or 2 years that the UK will be any closer on a consensus as to which option to choose.

The Brexit uncertainty is hurting the EU, Individual governments are getting tired of the nonsense, the threats and the bull, they have done all they can to help the UK but the situation has not changed since the first withdrawal date, if anything the UK is further away from consensus than it ever was..

alastair

knipex wrote: »

UK parliament enacts a law in UK not in Europe.

If the UK fails to get an extension and fails to agree a deal then the default in a hard Brexit at the end of November.. it does not matter how many laws ruling out no deal the UK parliament passes. Extension or not they have 3 options

Approve the negotiated deal
Revoke A 50
Hard Brexit.

If they dotn pick option 1 or 2 then it is option 3 by default.


Corbyns talk of a new deal is just as much nonsense as Boris's talk of a new deal. All the extension does is delay that decision and there is zero evidence that in 3 months, 6 months, or 2 years that the UK will be any closer on a consensus as to which option to choose.

The Brexit uncertainty is hurting the EU, Individual governments are getting tired of the nonsense, the threats and the bull, they have done all they can to help the UK but the situation has not changed since the first withdrawal date, if anything the UK is further away from consensus than it ever was..

Remove the intransigence of the Tory red lines from the equation, and you have the basis of a quickly renegotiated deal. Even accede on the backstop, and a variant of May’s deal would likely pass muster. An extension to see either though, or allow time for an election and subsequent referendum, are infinitely preferable to a no-deal exit from both side’s perspectives.

What’s clear enough is that a no-deal exit is not wanted by parliament, U.K. citizens, or the EU.

Snickers Man

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Oh jesus christ, another semantic argument. You know what I freaking mean!

You mean can the "British Constitution" overturn democratically a decision that was taken democratically very shortly after that first decision was taken?
Of course it can.
But then they would lose all credibility when sneering at Ireland for "rerunning the Lisbon and Nice treaties" just because some people didn't like the result.

And if they're going to overturn one decision democratically arrived at, what's wrong with having another referendum on the whole issue of Brexit anyway?

batgoat

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where did I say "Boris" could disregard a law? I stated it was the government who would do so, look at the post you quoted and read it properly.

You actually did a few pages back. You kept claiming lack of Royal Assent would allow him to ignore the vote...

rgmmg

from BBC:

"A no-deal Brexit would be a failure that both the British and Irish governments would be responsible for, Boris Johnson has said."

Scapegoat much?

tigger123

rgmmg wrote: »

from BBC:

"A no-deal Brexit would be a failure that both the British and Irish governments would be responsible for, Boris Johnson has said."

Scapegoat much?

If only we weren't such upstarts and just rejoined the Commonwealth.

alastair

rgmmg wrote: »

from BBC:

"A no-deal Brexit would be a failure that both the British and Irish governments would be responsible for, Boris Johnson has said."

Scapegoat much?

Personally, I regret voting to leave the EU now alright. Seems fair.

ohnonotgmail

alastair wrote: »

Personally, I regret voting to leave the EU now alright. Seems fair.

what seems fair? that both ireland and britain would be responsible for a no-deal brexit?

alastair

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what seems fair? that both ireland and britain would be responsible for a no-deal brexit?

That Boris holds my country responsible for a choice made by U.K. voters and legislators.

MadYaker

alastair wrote: »

Not so easy when parliament has removed no deal exit from the equation.

The Benn bill can’t stop the UK crashing out of the EU if the EU refuse the extension.

alastair

MadYaker wrote: »

The Benn bill can’t stop the UK crashing out of the EU if the EU refuse the extension.

Nope, but revoking article 50 would, and the will of parliament is to ensure no-deal exit doesn’t happen.

The extension would be granted by the EU in any case. Don’t believe the hype.

ohnonotgmail

alastair wrote: »

That Boris holds my country responsible for a choice made by U.K. voters and legislators.

ah you were being sarcastic. so hard to tell these days.

alastair

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ah you were being sarcastic. so hard to tell these days.

They are challenging times for plausibility alright.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1170998111235448833

threeball

I think with the overall majority gone the Tories would be happy to jettison Northern Ireland but are worried that Scotland will follow and with them goes gas, oil and fishing rights. The DUP are completely without any say at this stage so the threat they held is removed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with an NI only backstop next month and leave on something close to Mays deal.

Portsalon

Can anyone confirm that, after Brexit, duty free booze and fags will once again be available on flights and sea journeys between Ireland and Britain?

If so, then Farage, May, Cameron, Boris and the UK electorate all deserve to be cannonised!