Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

McMurphy

Portsalon wrote: »

Can anyone confirm that, after Brexit, duty free booze and fags will once again be available on flights and sea journeys between Ireland and Britain?

If so, then Farage, May, Cameron, Boris and the UK electorate all deserve to be cannonised!

No, pretty sure I read that no such scenario will exist post brexit, deal or not.

Portsalon

Portsalon wrote: »

Can anyone confirm that, after Brexit, duty free booze and fags will once again be available on flights and sea journeys between Ireland and Britain?

If so, then Farage, May, Cameron, Boris and the UK electorate all deserve to be cannonised!

I hope so, but really don't know. The realist in me says no. One side will find a way to keep duty on it. Britain might be desperate for the revenue generated by it anyway, or they might welcome regular booze cruises to Holyhead from Ireland.

Minimum Unit pricing is coming in in Ireland, but it was going to occur at the same time as Northern Ireland brought it in to prevent an exodus up north. I really wonder how that will work post-Brexit.

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No, pretty sure I read that no such scenario will exist post brexit, deal or not.

Considering no-one knows whats going to happen post Brexit, if it will happen, what the terms will be etc. I wonder why the author of that article was so sure of themselves.

Portsalon

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No, pretty sure I read that no such scenario will exist post brexit, deal or not.

If you're right, then that shocking decision will have to be challenged - preferably in the European Court of Human Rights!

knipex

alastair wrote: »

What’s clear enough is that a no-deal exit is not wanted by parliament, U.K. citizens, or the EU.

Yet the minute the people via the referendum and their parliament voted to enact Article 50 it became the default option..

There appears to be an opinion with a large part of the remain element in the UK that they can take no deal of the table without selecting one of the other two options.

That is absolute nonsense.

Corbyn is never goign to be PM. The fact that the Tory's are still in power after the farce that was the last 3 years is evidence of just how undetectable he is. If there had been a strong Labour party then we wouldn't be where we are today.

If there was an election tomorrow you still wouldn't be able to get consensus on any one thing. After 3 long years they cannot even agree within the individual parties what they want Brexit to look like. Let alone across parliament.

The only party to show consistency on the matter before, during and after the referendum are the Lib Dems and they are are likely to lead a government as Cobyrn..

Its a farce, a cluster ****, a situation FUBAR.. driven by the UK and the only one with the power or authority to resolve it is the UK. Unfortunately UK politics is an even bigger cluster **** at the moment which to my mind means a hard Brexit by default, with Ireland and the EU suffering collateral damage. (and leaving UK politics still in a mess and with no friends left when they need them)

alastair

knipex wrote: »

Yet the minute the people via the referendum and their parliament voted to enact Article 50 it became the default option..

There appears to be an opinion with a large part of the remain element in the UK that they can take no deal of the table without selecting one of the other two options.

That is absolute nonsense.

Corbyn is never goign to be PM. The fact that the Tory's are still in power after the farce that was the last 3 years is evidence of just how undetectable he is. If there had been a strong Labour party then we wouldn't be where we are today.

If there was an election tomorrow you still wouldn't be able to get consensus on any one thing. After 3 long years they cannot even agree within the individual parties what they want Brexit to look like. Let alone across parliament.

The only party to show consistency on the matter before, during and after the referendum are the Lib Dems and they are are likely to lead a government as Cobyrn..

Its a farce, a cluster ****, a situation FUBAR.. driven by the UK and the only one with the power or authority to resolve it is the UK. Unfortunately UK politics is an even bigger cluster **** at the moment which to my mind means a hard Brexit by default, with Ireland and the EU suffering collateral damage. (and leaving UK politics still in a mess and with no friends left when they need them)

No deal exit isn’t going to happen, for the very same reason the Benn bill was enacted. There is no mandate for it. It’s only the ‘default’ option because the expectation was a deal would be agreed before the deadline. It’s actually no more a ‘default’ than the previous deadlines were. Clearly the odds are a fudged version of May’s deal being agreed after an extension is more likely than the abandonment of Brexit, but there’s no logic to parliament agreeing to a no-deal exit after specifically enacting law to prevent the government causing it.

knipex

alastair wrote: »

but there’s no logic to parliament agreeing to a no-deal exit after specifically enacting law to prevent the government causing it.

That is my point, parliament doesn't have to agree a no deal Brexit, it just had to fail to agree anything else..

They can pass all the laws and motions ruling out a no deal Brexit they like, it does not change that reality.

The UK is not goign to keep giving extension after extension after extension. There is zero evidence that an extension would do anything to create consensus..

alastair

knipex wrote: »

That is my point, parliament doesn't have to agree ad no deal Brexit, it just had to fail to agree anything else..

They can pass all the laws and motions ruling out a no deal Brexit they like, it does not change that reality.

The UK is not goign to keep giving extension after extension after extension. There is zero evidence that an extension would do anything to create consensus..

The reality is that the ‘default’ will be overridden once again. There is no need for consensus - merely a majority in parliament - and that’s not unachievable. Even if you don’t believe that parliament can achieve a majority vote for a deal, the option to pass the buck back to a people’s vote is not going to pose too many problems for a parliamentary majority.

knipex

alastair wrote: »

There is no need for consensus - merely a majority in parliament - and that’s not unachievable. Even if you don’t believe that parliament can achieve a majority vote for a deal, the option to pass the buck back to a people’s vote is not going to pose too many problems for a parliamentary majority.

They have been trying to get a majority in parliament since May was PM. And failed.

They certainly could not get a majority for a rerun of the referendum.

alastair

knipex wrote: »

They have been trying to get a majority in parliament since May was PM. And failed.

They certainly could not get a majority for a rerun of the referendum.

The last vote on a people’s vote on a proposed deal (April 1st) was only lost by 12 votes. There’s been a significant shift in parliamentary voting since then. It’s a bit blinkered to suggest there’s no majority for it. Likewise - a customs union deal proposal, which would obviously negate a backstop, was only defeated by 3 votes. Are we to seriously believe that the Tory rebels haven’t shifted that balance in the meantime?

Donald Trump

Portsalon wrote: »

Can anyone confirm that, after Brexit, duty free booze and fags will once again be available on flights and sea journeys between Ireland and Britain?

If so, then Farage, May, Cameron, Boris and the UK electorate all deserve to be cannonised!

Well if you buy a bottle of whiskey on your way over to London, just be careful not to drink too much out if it while you are stuck in queues for a few hours trying to get in through their immigration

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well if you buy a bottle of whiskey on your way over to London, just be careful not to drink too much out if it while you are stuck in queues for a few hours trying to get in through their immigration

what immigration?

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

what immigration?

Usually when countries have borders, they check people coming through.



Granted, Irish people may not need a visa to visit the UK, but that isn't to say that you won't be delayed getting into the country if there are queues.....unless they do something like allow Irish people to also go into their own citizenship queue....but they could just as easily have two categories - UK and non-UK



I missed a connection through a US airport before because I was stuck in an immigration queue for well over 2 hours. I had the Esta and in any case I actually was only flying through the US and never leaving the airport, but I was still stuck in the queue behind all the rest of the foreigners answering questions about their motives for visiting the US etc.

8-10

John Bercow standing down as speaker. Interesting

davedanon

Royal Assent granted. Get tae fock, Boris.

facehugger99

knipex wrote: »

Corbyn is never goign to be PM. The fact that the Tory's are still in power after the farce that was the last 3 years is evidence of just how undetectable he is. If there had been a strong Labour party then we wouldn't be where we are today.

Sometimes an auto-correct can get right to the heart of an issue by accident.

Eric Cartman

8-10 wrote: »

John Bercow standing down as speaker. Interesting

ahh no, him and JRM having a go at each other made British politics a spectator sport. I shall miss him dearly.

Eric Cartman

davedanon wrote: »

Royal Assent granted. Get tae fock, Boris.

asking for another extension and being granted it would be the biggest tragedy in European politics right now, hopefully somebody rialls up the EU in a backchannel and gets it denied.

batgoat

davedanon wrote: »

Royal Assent granted. Get tae fock, Boris.

Chameleon will enter with his legal arguments shortly...

FunLover18

8-10 wrote: »

John Bercow standing down as speaker. Interesting

At the next election or on Oct 31, whichever comes first.

alastair

Eric Cartman wrote: »

asking for another extension and being granted it would be the biggest tragedy in European politics right now, hopefully somebody rialls up the EU in a backchannel and gets it denied.

You honestly believe a delay is worse than a no-deal exit, and all the actual hardship that'll bring?

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

what immigration?

Wait and see.

gmisk

Replacement for Bercow could be Chris Bryant......I did love his destruction of Kay Burley in fairness!

Eric Cartman

alastair wrote: »

You honestly believe a delay is worse than a no-deal exit, and all the actual hardship that'll bring?

yes. Its been 3 years now, they can still form deals after they leave, it might even hurry the process more. This can kicking has to stop and the contrarian forces that will continuously flipflop to prevent any deal succeeding need to be assured that they're leaving.

as was said last week by one MP "it wouldn't matter if we had a gold plated deal, you wouldn't get a majority because too many people want to undo democracy"

I honestly believe that there are enough MP's really just hoping to keep kicking this until it just goes away or a GE puts in a party that withdraws article 50. I would rather see them leave with no deal whatsoever than have to watch another 2 years of overpriced footing around by remainers doing the bare minimum to deliver Brexit.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes. Its been 3 years now, they can still form deals after they leave, it might even hurry the process more. This can kicking has to stop and the contrarian forces that will continuously flipflop to prevent any deal succeeding need to be assured that they're leaving.

as was said last week by one MP "it wouldn't matter if we had a gold plated deal, you wouldn't get a majority because too many people want to undo democracy"

I honestly believe that there are enough MP's really just hoping to keep kicking this until it just goes away or a GE puts in a party that withdraws article 50. I would rather see them leave with no deal whatsoever than have to watch another 2 years of overpriced footing around by remainers doing the bare minimum to deliver Brexit.

"Democracy" and "Brexit" are not synonymous.

Granting an extension isn't kicking the can. It's helping to bring a proper end to this farce. Either Johnson wins an election and exits the EU without a deal or Labour win and repeal Article 50 either directly or via a referendum. One or another, this thing will end soon.

splashthecash

OK, stupid question but...

Brexit passed with a slim margin - why are we not hearing from anyone in government who voted to stay, pushing for another referendum?

Has everyone just jumped on the leave band wagon now and now at this point it is just bickering between the different types of Leave camps.

alastair

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes. Its been 3 years now, they can still form deals after they leave, it might even hurry the process more. This can kicking has to stop and the contrarian forces that will continuously flipflop to prevent any deal succeeding need to be assured that they're leaving.

as was said last week by one MP "it wouldn't matter if we had a gold plated deal, you wouldn't get a majority because too many people want to undo democracy"

I honestly believe that there are enough MP's really just hoping to keep kicking this until it just goes away or a GE puts in a party that withdraws article 50. I would rather see them leave with no deal whatsoever than have to watch another 2 years of overpriced footing around by remainers doing the bare minimum to deliver Brexit.

Well, you're wrong.

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

"Democracy" and "Brexit" are not synonymous.

Granting an extension isn't kicking the can. It's helping to bring a proper end to this farce. Either Johnson wins an election and exits the EU without a deal or Labour win and repeal Article 50 either directly or via a referendum. One or another, this thing will end soon.

I genuinely believe thats the worst possible result for the UK and possibly markets.

The end product of their idiocy should be Brexit, deal or no deal.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I genuinely believe thats the worst possible result for the UK and possibly markets.

The end product of their idiocy should be Brexit, deal or no deal.

By this, do you mean the extension or remaining in general via referendum?

FunLover18

splashthecash wrote: »

OK, stupid question but...

Brexit passed with a slim margin - why are we not hearing from anyone in government who voted to stay, pushing for another referendum?

Has everyone just jumped on the leave band wagon now and now at this point it is just bickering between the different types of Leave camps.

The LibDems have declared themselves a Remain party and AFAIK want to hold a second referendum/revoke A50