Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

you didn't watch it di you

No, but the bit about no one else talking to them still stands.

They are now a parochial show.

Outside of Brexit, the damage down to the DUP brand and Unionism in just the Tory party alone has been stark.

Personally I get Brexit. A no Deal will hit me very hard though.

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Anyone watch Claire Byrne now? Seems a very bullish DUP

They were very bullish before at the Anglo Irish Agreement (I think Never Never Never was invented for that one) at the GFA etc etc.

It seems to come before a humbling for them.

cryptocurrency

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were very bullish before at the Anglo Irish Agreement (I think Never Never Never was invented for that one) at the GFA etc etc.

It seems to come before a humbling for them.

Can't see it. Let's see if SF part take now in these calls to restore stormont as I sense the tories and the DUP have a plan to put them on the spot to try to turn the tables

threeball

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

They'll definitely offload the north into its own deal if they can get a deal for themselves.

With Westminster essentially outlawing no-deal Tory headbangers can no longer use the NIonlyBS as an excuse to engineer a crash-out so they may feel it's their only viable option.

As I said in a previous post, the only things that prevented this earlier were the fact they were helping the Tories maintain their majority but that's gone now. Secondly the fear that Scotland would follow suit. If it weren't for the second the north would already be offloaded.

Any right minded remainder in the north should be voting sdlp next time. Voting Sinn Fein you may as well be voting for brexit.

threeball

cryptocurrency wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were very bullish before at the Anglo Irish Agreement (I think Never Never Never was invented for that one) at the GFA etc etc.

It seems to come before a humbling for them.

Can't see it. Let's see if SF part take now in these calls to restore stormont as I sense the tories and the DUP have a plan to put them on the spot to try to turn the tables

In a new election SF should be kicked to the kerb if voters have any sense. They don't take their seats so can't influence anything and refuse to reconvene stormont. Instead of helping the DUP self destruct they are actually making them relevant.

cryptocurrency

threeball wrote: »

As I said in a previous post, the only things that prevented this earlier were the fact they were helping the Tories maintain their majority but that's gone now. Secondly the fear that Scotland would follow suit. If it weren't for the second the north would already be offloaded.

Any right minded remainder in the north should be voting sdlp next time. Voting Sinn Fein you may as well be voting for brexit.

Can't see how the DUP can't use the GFA against the calls for a backstop. NI is dependent on the UK and almost all of its economy depends on trade across the Irish sea and selling or importing to britain..much more so then the EU as Paisley outlined. Making it's biggest market and it's other parts of the same country a 3r country could well be used by them as the same way the backstop has been sued by the EU.

Isn't there something in the GFA in which such agreement must have cross party agreement in Stormont as I've seen a number of northern ireland politicians allude to it in a very confident manner. Is that Boris trump card?

cryptocurrency

Lim Dems have not got a hope. Jo Swinson comes across as so weak. First time I have watched her in parliament at length, how the hell did they pick her.

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Can't see it. Let's see if SF part take now in these calls to restore stormont as I sense the tories and the DUP have a plan to put them on the spot to try to turn the tables

As far as the Tories are concerned the DUP no longer exist.

Why would they even talk to them, about anything?

Don't you think they have enough to deal with in London.

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Lim Dems have not got a hope. Jo Swinson comes across as so weak. First time I have watched her in parliament at length, how the hell did they pick her.

She was the best they had.

That is their crisis to deal with.

cryptocurrency

Danzy wrote: »

As far as the Tories are concerned the DUP no longer exist.

Why would they even talk to them, about anything?

Don't you think they have enough to deal with in London.

Depends, if as implied the GFA can be spun against the backstop then I'm sure they are all over it

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Depends, if as implied the GFA can be spun against the backstop then I'm sure they are all over it

The Tory party will overwhelmingly back an Island of Ireland backstop if it means an accommodation, that all can live with, they'll do it in mist scenarios.

As it it most Tories for Brexit would say goodbye to Scotland and they see them as British.

cryptocurrency

Danzy wrote: »

The Tory party will overwhelmingly back an Island of Ireland backstop if it means an accommodation, that all can live with, they'll do it in mist scenarios.

As it it most Tories for Brexit would say goodbye to Scotland and they see them as British.

Someone who could claim scottish passport if one exists I can tell you it is not gonna happen.

There is no real appetite for it. More scottish people, a lot more, voted to remain in the UK then voted for the SNP in any election. Don't let the seats the SNP won in an election confuse you.

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Someone who could claim scottish passport if one exists I can tell you it is not gonna happen.

There is no real appetite for it. More scottish people, a lot more, voted to remain in the UK then voted for the SNP in any election. Don't let the seats the SNP won in an election confuse you.

What the Scots think about independence is irrelevant, the Tories would be happy to see the back of them.

It is an interesting dynamic that has developed or at least surfaced.


Politically England doesn't care and often hardly knows Scotland and more so Northern Ireland exist.

That is in both established parties. It's accelerating.

Brexit is quite a large bit due to a reasserting of English national identity than British exiting the EU.

The attitude seems to be best of luck but your business is your business.

Outside of trade and economic circumstances that is the long term historical item of interest.

England not even looking up or West but looking at its own considerations alone.

Bannasidhe

No snap GE - failed to meet the required number.

Boris is playing a blinder - he has managed to lose every single vote so far. Perhaps he is trying to set a world record.

8-10

Is anyone else just staying up to watch the pomp and ceremony of the prorogation ceremony? Funny hats and reading comments from the Queen, that's what I'm here for

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

Is anyone else just staying up to watch the pomp and ceremony of the prorogation ceremony? Funny hats and reading comments from the Queen, that's what I'm here for

I'm just awake. Might take my earphones to class and give the class a test so I can keep watching.

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm just awake. Might take my earphones to class and give the class a test so I can keep watching.

Bit of commotion when Black Rod tried to get the MP's to go with her to the House of Lords but a bit boring now, the Norman French stuff

I see Boris is long gone, looked wrecked the poor chap

McMurphy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No snap GE - failed to meet the required number.

Boris is playing a blinder - he has managed to lose every single vote so far. Perhaps he is trying to set a world record.

Yeah, already beaten the former record holder for the most votes lost in Parliament, also Boris Johnson.

Kidchameleon

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Yeah, already beaten the former record holder for the most votes lost in Parliament, also Boris Johnson.

How many PM's have had the opposition turn down a GE? None. How many PM's have had to deal with Brexit? Teresa May lost a fair few votes too you know. You could look at it like Boris is incompetent or you could look at like it is an extraordinary time.

McMurphy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How many PM's have had the opposition turn down a GE? None. How many PM's have had to deal with Brexit? Teresa May lost a fair few votes too you know. You could look at it like Boris is incompetent or you could look at like it is an extraordinary time.

Hmm,

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Before mods thread-ban me for "soap boxing", which of course, everyone else is doing except me, I'm going to leave. I don't want to be thread banned on the 31st. Bye friends, I'm preparing a meme sh1storm for you all

It would seem you are no better at achieving a Threxit than the cons are at Brexit.

Boris lost six votes in a row, no deal is off the table, and he's been denied an election, and they have suspended parliament for five weeks - which I imagine they thought was an epic stroke at the time - but in hindsight looks more like a squelchy brain fart.

I think it's looking like a resignation from BoJo followed by an extension, or the DUPers being shafted, and a border in the sea and special status for the north.

I'd be happy enough with either of those two scenarios tbh.

Peregrinus

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How many PM's have had the opposition turn down a GE? None.

It's only since the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2010 that the question could arise; prior to that Parliament had no voice in calling or timing a GE, and so the opposition would have no say in the matter.

Since the FTPA:

- Cameron never sought to call an early election

- May sought to call an early election and parliament (with opposition co-operation) agreed.

- Johnson has twice sought to call an early election and parliament has refused.

Really, we shouldn't be that surprised. The point of the FTPA was to take control of the calling and timing of early elections from the government and give it to Parliament. Governments, when they had the power, used it to maximise the chance of getting the election result they wanted (which, of course, is to be re-elected). Now that parliament has the power, and now that a 2/3rds vote is required, the opposition party has a significant influence over the calling and timing of an election and it is entirely forseeable that it, too, will use its influence to try and secure the election outcome it hopes for - in this case, by deferring the election until after Johnson has to choose between resignation and humiliation.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How many PM's have had to deal with Brexit? Teresa May lost a fair few votes too you know. You could look at it like Boris is incompetent or you could look at like it is an extraordinary time.

These are not inconsistent. This is an extraordinary time partly because Johnson is incompetent. (As witness the gift he has just handed the opposition.)

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Can't see how the DUP can't use the GFA against the calls for a backstop. NI is dependent on the UK and almost all of its economy depends on trade across the Irish sea and selling or importing to britain..much more so then the EU as Paisley outlined. Making it's biggest market and it's other parts of the same country a 3r country could well be used by them as the same way the backstop has been sued by the EU.

Isn't there something in the GFA in which such agreement must have cross party agreement in Stormont as I've seen a number of northern ireland politicians allude to it in a very confident manner. Is that Boris trump card?

I guess the DUP would argue that a customs border in the Irish Sea changes the status of NI within the UK, which can only be done with the consent of the majority of the people in the north.

gmisk

threeball wrote: »

In a new election SF should be kicked to the kerb if voters have any sense. They don't take their seats so can't influence anything and refuse to reconvene stormont. Instead of helping the DUP self destruct they are actually making them relevant.

Nope sorry totally disagree with that.
SFs policy have never been to take seats in Westminster (they also don't take the money) their voters know this.
Stormonts collapse was to do with the RHI scandal, which Arlene foster caused....still no report on that...but a lot of DUP linked people took advantage of it (+500m likely to be lost).
The DUP have also blocked marriage equality legislation, thankfully they will have no choice but to allow it along with legislation on abortion in NI. They have had plenty of time to try and agree to an Irish language act but haven't, the DUP were also the only party in NI backing a brexit (NI voted overwhelmingly to remain)....so nope I wouldn't vote for SF but the blame in northern Ireland can fall much more at the door of the DUP.
I am from a seriously Republican area in NI btw.

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

No Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament). A valid Act of Parliament cannot be questioned by the court. Parliament is the supreme lawmaker.

Of course a parliament can overturn a previous decision but governments are expected to honour their international sovereign agreements.

They can look to negotiate amendments to such agreements but if they walk away from them they will find it hard to be trusted or taken seriously in future.

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I sense the tories and the DUP have a plan

:D:D 'A Plan' and 'the Tories and DUP' do not belong ion the same sentence. Arlene has been making it up since her 'do the opposite to themuns' stunt went awry. And Boris is rudderless and powerless.

McMurphy

Aegir wrote: »

I guess the DUP would argue that a customs border in the Irish Sea changes the status of NI within the UK, which can only be done with the consent of the majority of the people in the north.

Didn't the majority of the north already vote to remain within the EU in the Brexit referendum?

Job done.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks. I'll use this argument in opposition of the land border idea.

a land border doesn't change NI's status in the UK though, so it doesn't fly.

RobMc59

First Up wrote: »

cryptocurrency wrote:

No Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament). A valid Act of Parliament cannot be questioned by the court. Parliament is the supreme lawmaker.

Of course a parliament can overturn a previous decision but governments are expected to honour their international sovereign agreements.

They can look to negotiate amendments to such agreements but if they walk away from them they will find it hard to be trusted or taken seriously in future.

I'm British and I'm ashamed and embarrassed about the way Johnson and his cronies are behaving-the British political system needs a serious overhaul asap.

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Didn't the majority of the north already vote to remain within the EU in the Brexit referendum?

Job done.

how does that affect NI's status in the UK?

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

a land border doesn't change NI's status in the UK though, so it doesn't fly.

I more meant Irish people up North in the context of the GFA. But you're right, so I deleted it.