Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Boggles

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, apologies...I wasn't having a go at you.

The British people are culpable as parliament is, in so much as they sent so many Brexit Party MEPs to the EU. Not all of parliament is blocking the deal as not all of the people are.

That would be the only reliable poll we have TBH, 1 pretty national one.

I wouldn't be so sure if the referendum was run again the result would be any different.

I also think if they did run again and it was remain, the EU would have one fair disgruntled basket case as a member.

The band aid approach is probably the most logic at this point in time, as much that is an absolutely terrifying prospect.

Tell me how

blinding wrote: »

You don’t think that a General Election should be the first order of Business . Let the Public give their opinion on the MPs that have failed to deliver Brexit .

Let's see the manifestos that the Parties will present at a General Election .

There is no way these MPs should be allowed to bring forward a second referendum until the public give their verdict on them .

What's your take on the Brexit Party refusing to present a manifesto before the EU elections and refusing to disclose names of candidates for the next GE until the final day in which they are obliged to do so?

Eric Cartman

Can they kick the date beyond the end of october ?

like could we still be talking about this in 8 years as everyone keeps kicking the can down the road.

blinding

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Lads, this is the guy who thinks the Nazis were extreme-left because they were the National Socialist German Workers Party so tbh you're wasting your time engaging.

I said that their roots were in the German Workers Party and that in the early days at least they were trying to attract Socialists ; Hence Nationalist Socialists.

Obviously they turned into something else but why is everybody so scared of their roots !

source

blinding wrote: »

You don’t think that a General Election should be the first order of Business . Let the Public give their opinion on the MPs that have failed to deliver Brexit .

Let's see the manifestos that the Parties will present at a General Election .

There is no way these MPs should be allowed to bring forward a second referendum until the public give their verdict on them .

Sure they could have a general election first, but that won't change the available options. A referendum will still be needed to decide which option they should follow. So a GE will only delay that vote unnecessarily.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Can they kick the date beyond the end of october ?

like could we still be talking about this in 8 years as everyone keeps kicking the can down the road.

If we're still talking about it in 8 years, it'll be as part of some holding period while a post separation trade deal is negotiated but the UK will have left.

Tusk said a couple weeks ago that the EU would grant another extension if it was to allow the UK to hold either a 2nd referendum or a general election.

That was before they completely wasted the time granted in this extension to have a leadership competition so I wouldn't be surprised if the goodwill of the EU has evaporated.

ArchXStanton

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If it's about democracy then surely a 2nd referendum in the uk should have your support if the polls show remain would win now?

Or is everything a 1 shot deal, never to be revisited?

Nah that only happens when the EU gets the desired result first time, if it's a no then its sorry you voted the wrong way there lads... Now let's try that again, then when desired result is achieved its never revisited again...

FrancieBrady

Boggles wrote: »

That would be the only reliable poll we have TBH, 1 pretty national one.

I wouldn't be so sure if the referendum was run again the result would be any different.

I also think if they did run again and it was remain, the EU would have one fair disgruntled basket case as a member.

The band aid approach is probably the most logic at this point in time, as much that is an absolutely terrifying prospect.

After listening to Widdicombe I think I agree. The only route here is to turf them out, as they have shown that they will only paralyse themselves more and do more damage if this is allowed to continue.
No more extensions, make your mind up.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Can they kick the date beyond the end of october ?

like could we still be talking about this in 8 years as everyone keeps kicking the can down the road.

Only with the assent of the EU27. Alternatively, they can either ratify the Withdrawal Agreement or cancel Article 50.

Tell me how

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Nah that only happens when the EU gets the desired result first time, if it's a no then its sorry you voted the wrong way there lads... Now let's try that again, then when desired result is achieved its never revisited again...

Didn't Rees-Mogg say previously that the prudent thing to do would be to have an initial referendum and then a second on whatever had been agreed on.

Didn't Farage say before the referendum that if Remain won then it would not be the end of the fight.

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Can they kick the date beyond the end of october ?

Well considering Boris is going renegotiating a deal that is not up for negotiation and he will probably only have a few days to do it in reality.

99.9% looking at another extension.

As for indefinite extensions, once it starts badly hurting economies, they'll get the boot if they don't vote on the deal.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

If we're still talking about it in 8 years, it'll be as part of some holding period while a post separation trade deal is negotiated but the UK will have left.

Tusk said a couple weeks ago that the EU would grant another extension if it was to allow the UK to hold either a 2nd referendum or a general election.

That was before they completely wasted the time granted in this extension to have a leadership competition so I wouldn't be surprised if the goodwill of the EU has evaporated.

Hopefully so. this process can't continue. I wish I was a consultant involved from the start, a 2 year contract might be running indefinitely

blinding

Tell me how wrote: »

What's your take on the Brexit Party refusing to present a manifesto before the EU elections and refusing to disclose names of candidates for the next GE until the final day in which they are obliged to do so?

Re the Eu Elections they are the the Brexit Party = They want their Country out of the Eu = Good policy , Crystal Clear .

As a new Party , have they the resources to research all the backgrounds of all their possible General Election Contestants . I am sure their adversaries have plenty of resources to dig up any possible dirt .

It well nigh impossible for a new party to breakthrough at Westminster .

If the Conservative's do Brexit there will be no need for a Brexit Party Manifesto as there will be no Brexit Party . Lets see what the Tories do . If they don’t do Brexit there will be No Tory Party .

Interesting times in Politics . I can assure you the Eu would be much better off with out Britain in the Eu because if for some reason it does not leave the Eu the Brexit Party will do everything it possibly can to wreck the Eu . From their point of view ; why would they not ?

blinding

source wrote: »

Sure they could have a general election first, but that won't change the available options. A referendum will still be needed to decide which option they should follow. So a GE will only delay that vote unnecessarily.

If a Brexit Party had a good win in a General Election there will be No Second Referendum .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

If a Brexit Party had a good win in a General Election there will be No Second Referendum .

So how will this Brexit Party effect leaving the EU?

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So how will this Brexit Party effect leaving the EU?

A Majority in Parliament is usually how Democracy Works :eek:

Eu-Philes don’t seem to understand democracy .

Either a no deal or a negotiated Deal . Not rocket science if a Brexit party gets an overall Majority .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

A Majority in Parliament is usually how Democracy Works :eek:

Eu-Philes don’t seem to understand democracy .

Either a no deal or a negotiated Deal . Not rocket science if a Brexit party gets an overall Majority .

So with polls showing clearly that a majority of people do not wish to leave via a 'no deal'...The Brexit Party is proposing doing that and you call this 'democracy'?

Parliamentarians and sensible people realise that the UK needs a deal..either before or shortly after leaving. That is why a majority do not want to leave without a deal, because it immediately makes them weaker. But I guess that is lost on you.

Tell me how

blinding wrote: »

A Majority in Parliament is usually how Democracy Works :eek:

Eu-Philes don’t seem to understand democracy .

Either a no deal or a negotiated Deal . Not rocket science if a Brexit party gets an overall Majority .

Euro-sceptics don't understand maths it seems.

They only revealed 100 odd candidates in Birmingham (without naming them).
Do you think they have another 225 candidates who are likely to win hidden up Farage's sleeves?

ancapailldorcha

blinding wrote: »

A Majority in Parliament is usually how Democracy Works :eek:

Eu-Philes don’t seem to understand democracy .

Either a no deal or a negotiated Deal . Not rocket science if a Brexit party gets an overall Majority .

Why did the voters elect this Parliament then?

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So with polls showing clearly that a majority of people do not wish to leave via a 'no deal'...The Brexit Party is proposing doing that and you call this 'democracy'?

Parliamentarians and sensible people realise that the UK needs a deal..either before or shortly after leaving. That is why a majority do not want to leave without a deal, because it immediately makes them weaker. But I guess that is lost on you.

Britain need's a General Election . If a Brexit Party ( Brexit Party , Conservative Party , Labour Party ) wins that General Election and decide to leave the Eu , Is that not democratic enough for You ?:eek:

blinding

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Why did the voters elect this Parliament then?

Many of the MPs both Labour and Conservative lied at the General Election . They promised to respect the Brexit Referendum result but have done the direct opposite .

Funnily enough Re-mainers are not too concerned about the lies these MPs told . Go figure !:eek:

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Britain need's a General Election . If a Brexit Party ( Brexit Party , Conservative Party , Labour Party ) win that General Election and decide to leave the Eu , Is that not democratic enough for You ?:eek:

That is exactly how the current parliament got here. What is suddenly undemocratic about that?

blinding

Tell me how wrote: »

Euro-sceptics don't understand maths it seems.

They only revealed 100 odd candidates in Birmingham (without naming them).
Do you think they have another 225 candidates who are likely to win hidden up Farage's sleeves?

So , you think a Party only weeks old should have all this sorted out .

The Brexit Party got some Votes for a Party that is only weeks old !

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Many of the MPs both Labour and Conservative lied at the General Election . They promised to respect the Brexit Referendum result but have done the direct opposite .

Funnily enough Re-mainers are not too concerned about the lies these MPs told . Go figure !:eek:

The referendum was 'respected'. Article 50 was invoked, they went to the EU and negotiated a deal and then the British themselves failed to ratify that deal.


That has nothing to do with the EU. Are you saying Britain is undemocratic?

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is exactly how the current parliament got here. What is suddenly undemocratic about that?

So many Labour and Conservative MPs lied at the General Election . Why do you think they are so afraid of a general election Now ?

Tell me how

blinding wrote: »

So , you think a Party only weeks old should have all this sorted out .

The Brexit Party got some Votes for a Party that is only weeks old !

They got those votes for a very specific reason. The clue is literally in the name.

It will (at least it should) be a different kettle of fish when it comes to a GE as people should be more aware of their local needs and realise that standing with your back to the EU parliament is not necessarily a tactic which is going to help the economy or society of the UK.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The referendum was 'respected'. Article 50 was invoked, they went to the EU and negotiated a deal and then the British themselves failed to ratify that deal.


That has nothing to do with the EU. Are you saying Britain is undemocratic?

The Labour and Conservative MPs that lied at the last General Election are not Democrats , Obviously .

Tell me how

blinding wrote: »

So many Labour and Conservative MPs lied at the General Election . Why do you think they are so afraid of a general election Now ?

Yeah, you're just taking the p*ss now.

If the lies were cut by 50% during the referendum, the conversation would have been entirely different over the last 3 years.

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

So many Labour and Conservative MPs lied at the General Election . Why do you think they are so afraid of a general election Now ?

They invoked Article 50 and agreed a deal to leave. The referendum was respected. Democracy worked until it came back to parliament to be ratified and it was mainly Brexiteers who blocked them leaving.

Explain how this is the EU's fault please?

blinding

Tell me how wrote: »

They got those votes for a very specific reason. The clue is literally in the name.

It will (at least it should) be a different kettle of fish when it comes to a GE as people should be more aware of their local needs and realise that standing with your back to the EU parliament is not necessarily a tactic which is going to help the economy or society of the UK.

Voters are going to take a very Dim View of the Tory and Labour Mps that lied to them about the most important policy in Britain at the moment . Many of them may be deselected . Thats why some of the MPs from No-Change (sic) jumped ship . Some if not all of them would have been de-selected for lying at the last General Election .