Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2019 2:40pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Both of which are complete BS when one takes a little time to do some research. .

Says the poster who recently insisted the Miller case was thrown out by the Supreme Court when it hasn't even been heard there yet.

Irony meter explosion in 3...2....

Kidchameleon · 12-09-2019 2:44pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Says the poster who recently insisted the Miller case was thrown out by the Supreme Court when it hasn't even been heard there yet.

Irony meter explosion in 3...2....

Is that all you have to go on? I got mixed up between "high" court and "supreme" court. You knew bloody well I knew what I was talking about. Come on, your better than that.

Kidchameleon · 12-09-2019 2:46pm

Odhinn wrote: »

...but if they leave - particularily in the early period - there's bound to be delays with regards to paperwork and so on. Shortages and backlogs because of this are possible and probable.

No there wont be. Any extra paperwork will be done by them companies, not on the ground by the drivers. Its blatant scaremongering by the remain side. Port operators have come out and said wtf are they talking about.

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2019 2:48pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Is that all you have to go on? I got mixed up between "high" court and "supreme" court. You knew bloody well I knew what I was talking about. Come on, your better than that.

But if you had done your research before posting you wouldn't have made that mistake would you so having a go at people by saying they don't do any research is a bit rich.

tigger123 · 12-09-2019 2:49pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No there wont be. Any extra paperwork will be done by them companies, not on the ground by the drivers. Its blatant scaremongering by the remain side. Port operators have come out and said wtf are they talking about.

Source for this?

FunLover18 · 12-09-2019 2:50pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Anyone else see the headlines on the Express?

EU agrees to Northern Ireland-only backstop - a deal they pedalled from the very start..

The British people don't stand a chance when their media spins any auld sh1te at them.

Jesus Christ.

The DUP won't be happy because they want to be in regulatory alignment and the SNP won't be happy because Scotland voted to remain. Sturgeon has come out again and said that if NI stays within the single market, Scotland want the same option.

tigger123 · 12-09-2019 2:53pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

The DUP won't be happy because they want to be in regulatory alignment and the SNP won't be happy because Scotland voted to remain. Sturgeon has come out again and said that if NI stays within the single market, Scotland want the same option.

This is a significant problem the UK will come up against after Brexit (if it ever happens). Even if they sort Westminster out and get a deal of some sorts done, the other component parts of the UK will forever more be agitating to get out from under them and back into the EU.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Brexit triggers the eventual dissolution of the UK.

threeball · 12-09-2019 3:05pm

tigger123 wrote: »

This is a significant problem the UK will come up against after Brexit (if it ever happens). Even if they sort Westminster out and get a deal of some sorts done, the other component parts of the UK will forever more be agitating to get out from under them and back into the EU.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Brexit triggers the eventual dissolution of the UK.

Brexit if it goes ahead is 100% the end of the UK as we know it. NI will have to be part of a separate customs regime. Scotland will vote for independence within 5yrs. The undying "nationalism" of the brexiteers, DUP and Tories will have ensured through their actions that nationalism will have reached its ultimate conclusion. England on its own, Scotland on its own and NI still not knowing what it wants.

RobMc59 · 12-09-2019 3:20pm

threeball wrote: »

tigger123 wrote: »

This is a significant problem the UK will come up against after Brexit (if it ever happens). Even if they sort Westminster out and get a deal of some sorts done, the other component parts of the UK will forever more be agitating to get out from under them and back into the EU.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Brexit triggers the eventual dissolution of the UK.

Brexit if it goes ahead is 100% the end of the UK as we know it. NI will have to be part of a separate customs regime. Scotland will vote for independence within 5yrs. The undying "nationalism" of the brexiteers, DUP and Tories will have ensured through their actions that nationalism will have reached its ultimate conclusion. England on its own, Scotland on its own and NI still not knowing what it wants.

Extreme nationalism isn't a good thing whichever country it is, the tories aren't really a true version of Britain-not everyone agrees with their selfish "I want the world and I want it right now" mantra.
Nothing wrong with being patriotic though imo.

threeball · 12-09-2019 3:31pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Extreme nationalism isn't a good thing whichever country it is, the tories aren't really a true version of Britain-not everyone agrees with their selfish "I want the world and I want it right now" mantra.
Nothing wrong with being patriotic though imo.

Patriotism has its place but we're better off co-operating with countries with common interests. The world has finite resources and unless we start pulling together very quickly then we're heading down a slippery slope. Nationalism brings us in the other direction. The I'm alright Jack so F everyone else doesn't work anymore. We need more alliances and strong ones that can oppose those who won't co-operate like the US and possibly China. Britain will become a Sardine in a Sea filled with Sharks.

Danzy · 12-09-2019 3:32pm

The UK was a construct for imperial adventure and gain.

Without that, it no longer has s purpose, the lessening of the British identity in favour of national identify has been growing since the 60s.

SeaBreezes · 12-09-2019 3:37pm

threeball wrote: »

Brexit if it goes ahead is 100% the end of the UK as we know it. NI will have to be part of a separate customs regime. Scotland will vote for independence within 5yrs. The undying "nationalism" of the brexiteers, DUP and Tories will have ensured through their actions that nationalism will have reached its ultimate conclusion. England on its own, Scotland on its own and NI still not knowing what it wants.

Where is wales?
Reminds me of:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aipaHJr3nsE

Odhinn · 12-09-2019 3:39pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No there wont be. Any extra paperwork will be done by them companies, not on the ground by the drivers. Its blatant scaremongering by the remain side. Port operators have come out and said wtf are they talking about.

Well, we don't have long to wait before we find out.

threeball · 12-09-2019 3:55pm

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Where is wales?
Reminds me of: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aipaHJr3nsE

Is there a difference between England and Wales and do they really care. Wales is a bit like Cork. Not quite like the rest of us but still part of us.

12-09-2019 3:56pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sweetest divine. It's not rocket science.

I am specifically talking about the Great Britain part - NI is an adjunct to that which is why it is not relevant.

It is not the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland because in 17fecking07 Great Britain was created when the English parliament (which administrated Wales as well) united with the Scottish parliament to create the parliament of 'Great Britain'. A new State with a new name.

In 1801 the Irish parliament voted to join the union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

In 1922 26 counties of Ireland left the union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Should NI leave it would be the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

Should Scotland leave then the union which created 'Great Britain' is over so technically what you are left with is England (plus Wales) and NI - which do not comprise Great Britain because it was the union of Scotland and England (plus Wales) into a new state which created GB in the first place.

Ireland is not relevant because Ireland was never part of Great Britain. It was part of the 'United Kingdom'.

You seem to have missed my point that since England +Wales + NI are not technically 'UKGB' then the argument could be made that they would also have had to leave the EU on the grounds that it was UKGB who were members - not England + Wales + NI.

it is an irrelevant discussion on this thread, but i understand your point. I think we are making opposite assumptions here about the act of 1707 act of union.

Would it be fully repealed (which would cause a major constitutional headache) or would Scotland simply be considered an independent country that has left the UK of GB&I. I think that may be an argument that lawyers should have, over beers.

Kidchameleon · 12-09-2019 4:06pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Source for this?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1176101/brexit-news-no-deal-leave-EU-lbc-iain-dale-boris-johnson-vote-leave-eu-port-dover

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2019 4:09pm

Aegir wrote: »

it is an irrelevant discussion on this thread, but i understand your point. I think we are making opposite assumptions here about the act of 1707 act of union.

Would it be fully repealed (which would cause a major constitutional headache) or would Scotland simply be considered an independent country that has left the UK of GB&I. I think that may be an argument that lawyers should have, over beers.

Agreed.
It's only been brought up here as an example of 'project fear' and statements that don't actually add up when examined. Of course, sometimes the statements turn out to being downplaying what really could happen...

The actual status of an Independent Scotland - or any other part of a fractured UKGB - vis a vis the EU is indeed one for the lawyers and many many beers.

RobMc59 · 12-09-2019 4:10pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Ok, so this is the posters mistake then. They were correct in saying that our naval vessal is a warship, not that it being a warship makes its intervention in Dundalk an act or war.

The intended use is the important thing here when it comes to names. That is what Rob and Aegir are keen to ignore to make implications to suit their 'Ireland is bad' or 'look over there' agenda's.

Noticed by others, not just me.

I don't think Ireland is bad,on the contrary,I believe Ireland has acted impeccably in regards to brexit- in stark contrast to the UK tory government.

Peter Flynt · 12-09-2019 4:11pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sweetest divine. It's not rocket science.

I am specifically talking about the Great Britain part - NI is an adjunct to that which is why it is not relevant.

It is not the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland because in 17fecking07 Great Britain was created when the English parliament (which administrated Wales as well) united with the Scottish parliament to create the parliament of 'Great Britain'. A new State with a new name.

In 1801 the Irish parliament voted to join the union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

In 1922 26 counties of Ireland left the union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Should NI leave it would be the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

Should Scotland leave then the union which created 'Great Britain' is over so technically what you are left with is England (plus Wales) and NI - which do not comprise Great Britain because it was the union of Scotland and England (plus Wales) into a new state which created GB in the first place.

Ireland is not relevant because Ireland was never part of Great Britain. It was part of the 'United Kingdom'.

You seem to have missed my point that since England +Wales + NI are not technically 'UKGB' then the argument could be made that they would also have had to leave the EU on the grounds that it was UKGB who were members - not England + Wales + NI.

You've got it wrong.

The United Kingdom was formed on 1st January 1801 following the unification of the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland.

ohnonotgmail · 12-09-2019 4:14pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

You've got it wrong.

The United Kingdom was formed on 1st January 1801 following the unification of the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland.

thats what Bannasidhe said.

In 1801 the Irish parliament voted to join the union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2019 4:21pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

You've got it wrong.

The United Kingdom was formed on 1st January 1801 following the unification of the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland.

Oh dear lord...

In a poorly attended Scottish Parliament the MPs voted to agree the Union and on 16 January 1707 the Act of Union was signed. The Act came into effect on May 1st 1707; the Scottish Parliament and the English Parliament united to form the Parliament of Great Britain, based in the Palace of Westminster, London, the home of the English Parliament.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Act-of-Union/

1801 was when Ireland joined.

If everyone could please read a history book that would be great.

Kidchameleon · 12-09-2019 4:22pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh dear lord...

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Act-of-Union/

1801 was when Ireland joined.

If everyone could please read a history book that would be great.

Nobody cares. We are discussing current affairs.

FunLover18 · 12-09-2019 4:30pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1176101/brexit-news-no-deal-leave-EU-lbc-iain-dale-boris-johnson-vote-leave-eu-port-dover

But the Government have literally today released a project which I've been working on for quite a few months, which is 150 pop-up stations and truck parks across the UK and Europe, where drivers can call in and have their paperwork checked so that they can approach the border knowing everything is in place.

Sorry but if you have all outbound trucks and vans stopping at these pop-up stations surely that's still going to cause delays, just not at the ports and borders?

tigger123 · 12-09-2019 4:40pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1176101/brexit-news-no-deal-leave-EU-lbc-iain-dale-boris-johnson-vote-leave-eu-port-dover

It's a claim made by someone who used to run one port. I'd give it a bit more credence if the person was still employed there.

It's the opinion of one retired person versus the tidal wave of advice from people currently working for the UK Government who are saying this is going to be a complete clusterf*ck. Hmmmm...

cadaliac · 12-09-2019 4:42pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1176101/brexit-news-no-deal-leave-EU-lbc-iain-dale-boris-johnson-vote-leave-eu-port-dover

did you read the article?

Kidchameleon · 12-09-2019 5:00pm

tigger123 wrote: »

It's a claim made by someone who used to run one port. I'd give it a bit more credence if the person was still employed there.

True, people who spent their careers up to retirement working in the port business havnt got a clue :rolleyes:

McMurphy · 12-09-2019 5:23pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

True, people who spent their careers up to retirement working in the port business havnt got a clue :rolleyes:

People = plural.

That article is one persons opinion.

Peter Flynt · 12-09-2019 5:55pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh dear lord...

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Act-of-Union/

1801 was when Ireland joined.

If everyone could please read a history book that would be great.

That became the Kingdom of Great Britain and in 1801 this Kingdom united with the Kingdom of Ireland for form the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland.

tigger123 · 12-09-2019 6:06pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

True, people who spent their careers up to retirement working in the port business havnt got a clue :rolleyes:

I never said he doesn't have a clue. What I was saying was, on balance, I'd be more inclined to believe the never ending reports from people currently analysing the practical elements of Brexit that it's going to be a clusterf*ck.

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2019 6:11pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nobody cares. We are discussing current affairs.

Feel free to skip on by my factual posts.

Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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