Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FunLover18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Only because of how it played out.

Major successfully prorogued parliament to, it was accused, avoid parliamentary inquiry into 'cash for questions'.

Nobody was sure how the Supreme Court would decide a few days ago. It technically could have been a different decision. What then?
I think listening to parliament today, or some in it, they are aware of the anomaly and I am sure steps will be taken to end it with legislation.

But surely a proper written constitution would solve the whole sorry mess they are in?

No, not only because of how it played out. Regardless of whether we agree with reasons for prorogation or how long it's for, the idea that the Queen should block the will of the elective flies in the face of both democracy and anti-royalism.

Bannasidhe

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It would make me feel better if you would refer to the "British Queen" or the "British Monarch" so we know which queen you are talking about.

ty!

I was responding to Francie and did ask several times if he had any issues with any other European queen (as in monarch) but as he persisted to referring only to the situation as it pertains in the UK I considered it was a given that in that instance 'queen' referred to Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and not, For example, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark whose role is not dissimilar to Elizabeth's but doesn't seem to interest Francie.

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was responding to Francie and did ask several times if he had any issues with any other European queen (as in monarch) but as he persisted to referring only to the situation as it pertains in the UK I considered it was a given that in that instance 'queen' referred to Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and not, For example, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark whose role is not dissimilar to Elizabeth's but doesn't seem to interest Francie.

Have you seen the title of the thread by any chance?

I have the same opinion of any monarchy...as I said very clearly when asked.

Bannasidhe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you seen the title of the thread by any chance?

I have the same opinion of any monarchy...as I said very clearly when asked.

Ask kermit if he's read the title of the thread. He's the one who asked me to be clear when the monarch I am referring to is Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than some other female monarch presiding over a European Constitutional monarchy.

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ask kermit if he's read the title of the thread. He's the one who asked me to be clear when the monarch I am referring to is Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than some other female monarch presiding over a European Constitutional monarchy.

You wondered why other monarchies 'didn't interest Francie'.

You have your answer. You deal with Kermit yourself.

B0jangles

I hope a little humour is ok?

https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1176750116474163201

(In case the tweet refuses to load, it's Kenyans taking the opportunity to talk about the UK in the same way as the UK's media habitually talks about Kenya and other countries in Africa.)

FrancieBrady

FunLover18 wrote: »

No, not only because of how it played out. Regardless of whether we agree with reasons for prorogation or how long it's for, the idea that the Queen should block the will of the elective flies in the face of both democracy and anti-royalism.

Both scenarios are anti democratic.

If parliament is sovereign then it is/should be the final arbiter.

Bannasidhe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You wondered why other monarchies 'didn't interest Francie'.

You have your answer. You deal with Kermit yourself.

Were I going to continue to discuss the role of a monarch in any European Constitutional Monarchy with you - which I am not - I will ensure that I shall clearly identify when I am referring to Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

FrancieBrady

B0jangles wrote: »

I hope a little humour is ok?

https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1176750116474163201

(In case the tweet refuses to load, it's Kenyans taking the opportunity to talk about the UK in the same way as the UK's media habitually talks about Kenya and other countries in Africa.)

:D Brilliant.

Strip away all the pomp and nonsense across the water and it is a similar 'shambles' that they love pointing at elsewhere.

FrancieBrady

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Were I going to continue to discuss the role of a monarch in any European Constitutional Monarchy with you - which I am not - I will ensure that I shall clearly identify when I am referring to Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Excuse me you! It is 'Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.' and don't you forget it!

FunLover18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Both scenarios are anti democratic.

If parliament is sovereign then it is/should be the final arbiter.

You can't have it both ways Francie, you started this by claiming the Queen had suppressed democracy and was complicit in the prorugation when the only alternative was to deny the will of the elective, unless that is what you feel should have happened and given the fact the prorogation process exists, the Queen going along with it is the best outcome for democracy until a point in time where the process is altered or removed. Do you accept that?

FrancieBrady

FunLover18 wrote: »

You can't have it both ways Francie, you started this by claiming the Queen had suppressed democracy and was complicit in the prorugation when the only alternative was to deny the will of the elective, unless that is what you feel should have happened and given the fact the prorogation process exists, the Queen going along with it is the best outcome for democracy until a point in time where the process is altered or removed. Do you accept that?

My view from the get go, is that this 'tier of government is pointless/undemocratic/absurd' whatever happens when it is reached.

FunLover18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My view from the get go, is that this 'tier of government is pointless/undemocratic/absurd' whatever happens when it is reached.

So you're not going to answer the question?

FrancieBrady

FunLover18 wrote: »

So you're not going to answer the question?

I already did in fairness FL.

If I seemed to be dictating a course of action for the monarch 'as my preference' I apologise, that was not my intention.

Bannasidhe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Excuse me you! It is 'Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.' and don't you forget it!

Nawh mate.
She's Brenda.

FrancieBrady

I don't think I have seen so many deflated MP's as there are now in the Newsnight studio.

The UK is in a strange and very volatile and dangerous place. Incredible really.

Edit, should have been an 'in' instead of 'is'

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think I have seen so many deflated MP's as there are now in the Newsnight studio.

The UK is is a strange and very volatile and dangerous place. Incredible really.

:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Are we 'not allowed' to discuss that too?

Do you actually have an opinion on anything Timberrrr or do you just keep watch?

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are we 'not allowed' to discuss that too?

Do you actually have an opinion on anything Timberrrr or do you just keep watch?

You equated "The UK is a strange and very volatile and dangerous place" with the current political shenanigans frankie.

Or are you now changing the subject? You jump around so many times a day with your Brit hatred i have to admit that it's sometimes difficult to follow your train of thought.

How is the UK a volatile and dangerous place?

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are we 'not allowed' to discuss that too?

Do you actually have an opinion on anything Timberrrr or do you just keep watch?

nobody is stopping you from saying anything francie. I'm not sure that is even possible. spare us the victim complex. thats the second time today you have claimed that.

McMurphy

I was discussing Brexit - and it's knock on effects today with a colleague.

We were discussing (or he was telling me) that the "UK has gone to fcuk" (his words).

I had to stop him and then talk about a supplier, someone both of us know, who is an Englishman born and bred, yet has lived here for the last prob 8 years or more, and really one of the nicest and obliging guys you'd evern wish to meet.

I don't think I'm far off the mark with what I told him, I told him that the vast majority of British people are like our mutual friend and supplier, and that it was the extreme upper, and equally extreme lower classes in Britain that were causing the havoc.

The middle ground are being drowned out by the noise of the arseholes from the extremes of either end of the social class in Britain.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You equated "The UK is a strange and very volatile and dangerous place" with the current political shenanigans frankie.

Or are you now changing the subject? You jump around so many times a day with your Brit hatred i have to admit that it's sometimes difficult to follow your train of thought.

How is the UK a volatile and dangerous place??

I edited the post, 'the UK is in a very volatile and dangerous place'.

You had a PM today using language that is extremely provocative during a further entrenched debate where MP's having been getting death threats and one MP has died.
You had a PM stating that he will ignore the will of parliament.

The debate has gotten even more entrenched if that is possible. The PM has staked so much on getting what most people believe is an impossible deal that it looks to me that when the inevitable happens (an extension) there is the very real prospect of violence.

How much of this do you think the debate can take?

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nobody is stopping you from saying anything francie. I'm not sure that is even possible. spare us the victim complex. thats the second time today you have claimed that.

Can you guys spare us the 'Brit hating' ****e then?

Padre_Pio

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I was discussing Brexit - and it's knock on effects today with a colleague.

We were discussing (or he was telling me) that the "UK has gone to fcuk" (his words).

I had to stop him and then talk about a supplier, someone both of us know, who is an Englishman born and bred, yet has lived here for the last prob 8 years or more, and really one of the nicest and obliging guys you'd evern wish to meet.

I don't think I'm far off the mark with what I told him, I told him that the vast majority of British people are like our mutual friend and supplier, and that it was the extreme upper, and equally extreme lower classes in Britain that were causing the havoc.

The middle ground are being drowned out by the noise of the arseholes from the extremes of either end of the social class in Britain.

So Brexit is like Twitter?
and parts of boards.ie

McMurphy

Padre_Pio wrote: »

So Brexit is like Twitter?
and parts of boards.ie

Spot on.

lawred2

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I was discussing Brexit - and it's knock on effects today with a colleague.

We were discussing (or he was telling me) that the "UK has gone to fcuk" (his words).

I had to stop him and then talk about a supplier, someone both of us know, who is an Englishman born and bred, yet has lived here for the last prob 8 years or more, and really one of the nicest and obliging guys you'd evern wish to meet.

I don't think I'm far off the mark with what I told him, I told him that the vast majority of British people are like our mutual friend and supplier, and that it was the extreme upper, and equally extreme lower classes in Britain that were causing the havoc.

The middle ground are being drowned out by the noise of the arseholes from the extremes of either end of the social class in Britain.

51% is not just the few percent at the top and bottom

Panrich

lawred2 wrote: »

51% is not just the few percent at the top and bottom

How many of that 51% though had no deal in mind and chaos at borders with a likely return to violence in NI alongside a breakup of the U.K?

lawred2

Panrich wrote: »

How many of that 51% though had no deal in mind and chaos at borders with a likely return to violence in NI alongside a breakup of the U.K?

Not sure but poll after poll shows that there is still a sizeable percentage that would still vote that way even after everything that they have seen and should have learned over the last three years.

_Kaiser_

Padre_Pio wrote: »

So Brexit is like Twitter?
and parts of boards.ie

and Ireland to be fair!

In many ways we're no better. "Middle Ireland", "those who get up early", whatever you want to call it is similarly drowned out (or just ignored) here as well.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you guys spare us the 'Brit hating' ****e then?

One is based in truth, the other isnt. i'll leave you to figure out which is which.