Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

threeball

fly_agaric wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

Agree 100%. I think if Germany sh1ts the bed at the last minute then most of this country will want to get out. It would be a clear indication that we only matter as long as it doesn't affect them. If we agitate then Italy, Greece and Spain will follow suit and it's game over.

I don't think anyone would follow Ireland out if we left...
We are just not that important.
However, if we were railroaded into a poor Brexit agreement, it would be a clear marker set down that the EU's big guns (France, Germany) will never back up a small member in a geopolitical dispute with a 3rd country (which the UK will be) if it hits them financially.
A really bad precedent to set for the EU into the future.
Some things can trump money and economics when it comes to deciding policy, but the Tories in the UK don't seem to have understood that.

I didn't mean they would follow us out because we left but that it would be clear to them that they are only pawns too. In fairness to Macron he has been consistent and often more stringent than Ireland in his position but Merkel has been a lot less reliable. She's capable of a wobble.

Voltex

threeball wrote: »

Agree 100%. I think if Germany sh1ts the bed at the last minute then most of this country will want to get out. It would be a clear indication that we only matter as long as it doesn't affect them. If we agitate then Italy, Greece and Spain will follow suit and it's game over.

The EU are not stupid. They perfectly understand that this whole charade is solely intended to obfuscate Cummings and Johnson's real intention - to ensure the Tories get a majority in the GE....and this can only be achieved by delivering Brexit. The fear of some is that, despite the Benn Act forcing the UK to ask for an extension, the sitting Government can apply an Order of Council that can legitimately delay the implementation of the aforementioned Act until after October 31st.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/MarkAyresRWS/status/1179461839266160640

20silkcut

threeball wrote: »

Agree 100%. I think if Germany sh1ts the bed at the last minute then most of this country will want to get out. It would be a clear indication that we only matter as long as it doesn't affect them. If we agitate then Italy, Greece and Spain will follow suit and it's game over.

I agree if we are thrown under the bus then really my attitude will shift back to where it was c2008/2010.
Just imagine the EU trying to impose tax harmonization on us in the coming years after backing the bond holders in 2010 and throwing us under the brexit bus in 2019. No way they can piss right off. That’s it for me with the whole European project if they go down that road.

But I don’t think it will happen btw. . But I’m sure Cummings / Johnson would love to drive a wedge between ourselves and the EU.

Mad_maxx

As a people we need to both begin to prepare for the real possibility of a united Ireland within the next ten years and a willingness to accept it will be costly, the unionists in the North East corner of our island have been a nuisance for centuries, they are being a nuisance again, the EU and the Britain itself will soon tire of them, we will be left to deal with them

FrancieBrady

20silkcut wrote: »

But I don’t think it will happen btw. . But I’m sure Cummings / Johnson would love to drive a wedge between ourselves and the EU.

For 3 years we are being told Ireland 'will be thrown under a bus', the DUP have capitulated and completely isolated themselves on a face saving solo run, the Tory's and British politics have been torn asunder and Boris is trying to keep abreast of the DUP as he tries to salvage something, we are a couple of weeks from another deadline and it still hasn't happened.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

I imagine it would start with some sort of a "deal" to let American health companies...either insurers/medical device/care providers prop up or "help" out areas of the NHS where it is under staffed or needs new buildings etc.It would just expand from there, essentially creating a new market for American helath companies to oeprate in, forcing the system until it operates as the USA does.Money would most likely change hands in a quid pro quo kind of way -we will provide funding for you in exchange for access to operate in our country.All dressed up as helping and aiming to make life better for everyone using the NHS obviously.

It would take a number of years obviously but it would slowly happen once they got a foot in the door.

DubInMeath wrote: »

It could be argued that this is already starting with VirginCare.

threeball wrote: »

This is exactly what would be put in motion. Trump has already mentioned his interest in allowing American companies access to NHS contracts.

this is all already happening and has been for years.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/21/private-firms-nhs-budget-matt-hancock-promise

https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/971433?path=/bmj/360/8142/Comment.full.pdf

Any US company can set up an operation in the uk (or anywhere in the EU currently) and bid for NHS contracts. This is currently enshrined in EU competition law https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/public-contracts/public-tendering-rules/index_en.htm

FunLover18

Bonnie Greer on QT last night

https://twitter.com/KeejayOV2/status/1179877240315756544?s=19

_Kaiser_

shesty wrote: »

Have to say I am a bit concerned they might accept it with tweaking.Genuinely not sure why, just a feeling I am getting.

tayto lover wrote: »

I have a feeling we’ll be hung out to dry eventually. Just a bad feeling. Like when they made us pay the bond holders.

davedanon wrote: »

If they do it tells every small country in the EU in flashing neon letters that IT COULD HAPPEN TO THEM TOO. The EU cares about the single market, and the unity of its constituent members. The UK is leaving, and they have never really realised that the EU cannot afford to give them a deal that is anything but significantly worse than what they're giving up, pour encourager les autres.

If France, Germany et al throw us under the bus it sounds the death knell for the project, and if the UK leaves and ends up better off it does the same. Realpolitik always applies, yes, but in this case the realpolitik says: defend the EU. And Ireland IS the EU.

threeball wrote: »

Agree 100%. I think if Germany sh1ts the bed at the last minute then most of this country will want to get out. It would be a clear indication that we only matter as long as it doesn't affect them. If we agitate then Italy, Greece and Spain will follow suit and it's game over.

I'm glad people have started to think about and talk about this possibility as it wouldn't surprise me at all if we end up with the short end of the stick when the dust settles.

Just look at how Greece was bullied into submission when it tried to fight the austerity imposition (right or wrong, they too were the EU). Similar tactics were used here remember, and we're still paying dearly for that, despite the "booming" economy

"We" might like to think that we're at the heart of Europe and a key player and influencer of policy and direction. But the reality is that if it suits the interests of those in Berlin, Paris and Brussels, we'll be thrown to the wolves.

I still hope an acceptable deal will be done, but it's looking increasingly unlikely.

FunLover18

So much for the EU and Ireland climbing down.

https://twitter.com/bbclornag/status/1180079013869608960?s=19

First Up

_Kaiser_ wrote:

I'm glad people have started to think about and talk about this possibility as it wouldn't surprise me at all if we end up with the short end of the stick when the dust settles.

"Started"? We've had stupid posts like yours for years.

_Kaiser_

First Up wrote: »

"Started"? We've had stupid posts like yours for years.

You're right. How can I ever counter such a well-thought out and structured response like this? :rolleyes:

The EU as a whole has been good for Ireland - no-one disputes that.. but that's more out of happy coincidence for the most part than deliberate intent. If it suits the interests of the controlling nations in the EU to shift direction then that's what'll happen, regardless of the impact on countries like ourselves (as we saw in the lead up to and during the aforementioned Financial Crisis and indeed things like the Migration issue).

But then, we'll all know in about a month who's right.

quokula

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're right. How can I ever counter such a well-thought out and structured response like this? :rolleyes:

The EU as a whole has been good for Ireland - no-one disputes that.. but that's more out of happy coincidence for the most part than deliberate intent. If it suits the interests of the controlling nations in the EU to shift direction then that's what'll happen, regardless of the impact on countries like ourselves (as we saw in the lead up to and during the aforementioned Financial Crisis and indeed things like the Migration issue).

But then, we'll all know in about a month who's right.

It’s a bit more than lucky coincidence that the EU is run to the benefit of its members.

First Up

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're right. How can I ever counter such a well-thought out and structured response like this? :rolleyes:

The EU as a whole has been good for Ireland - no-one disputes that.. but that's more out of happy coincidence for the most part than deliberate intent. If it suits the interests of the controlling nations in the EU to shift direction then that's what'll happen, regardless of the impact on countries like ourselves (as we saw in the lead up to and during the aforementioned Financial Crisis and indeed things like the Migration issue).

But then, we'll all know in about a month who's right.

So its a "happy coincidence" that we've transformed our economy from a low value agricultural country heavily dependent on the UK into 2nd place out of 44 countries in Europe?

Do you think our relations with the "controlling nations" would be easier to manage on our own? How about our relations with the US, China, Japan etc. Would we be able to negotiate better trade terms by just using our charm than as part of the world's largest trade bloc?

Greece got its knuckles wrapped because it abused the benefits of EU membership. So did we. In both cases the EU delivered the rescue package as well as the tough medicine. And we are both the better for it.

But some taxi drivers are in trouble because they re-mortgaged their semis in Coolock for dodgy loans to buy apartments in Bulgaria and the Financial Regulator was too busy playing golf with Seanie Fitz to notice.

So, yes it must be the EU's fault.

Kermit.de.frog

Boris Johnson to sabotage EU if forced to delay Brexit

Boris Johnson would veto the EU’s seven-year budget and send a Eurosceptic commissioner to Brussels to “disrupt” the bloc’s workings if he were forced into a Brexit delay, under plans being discussed by ministers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/05/boris-johnson-sabotage-eu-forced-delay-brexit/

maebee

20silkcut wrote: »

I agree if we are thrown under the bus then really my attitude will shift back to where it was c2008/2010.
.

We won't be thrown under the bus. We are a remaining member who has the support of all the 27 members of our club:)

Fann Linn

How can he leave without a deal when he will be ordered to seek an extension under the Benn Act?

Stop moaning ffs

Fann Linn wrote: »

How can he leave without a deal when he will be ordered to seek an extension under the Benn Act?

Barnier interview today strongly suggesting there’ll be no further extensions.
Nobody in Westminster planned for that.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/Planet_Belfast/status/1180425586289905664

Stop moaning ffs

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Planet_Belfast/status/1180425586289905664

Imagine letting another culture live in your head and life to such a degree that you allow that hate grow to that level.

Fvckin scarlet for them. Watching this on twitter all day. They’re really going to regret doing this and this video getting out there.

NIMAN

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Imagine letting another culture live in your head and life to such a degree that you allow that hate grow to that level.

Fvckin scarlet for them. Watching this on twitter all day. They’re really going to regret doing this and this video getting out there.

That is shocking.

These 2 need to be named and shamed. They deserve everything that's coming to me. If I employed either of them I would be having a good talk to them when they return to work. No-one wants to employ bigots like this, how are they going to integrate into their work again after this, with colleagues from the 'other side'.

And on their wedding day too. Tools!

Stop moaning ffs

That’s the mad part.

On their effing wedding day

What the actual fvck

Watch the lady at the very end of the table as the groom approaches her. She clearly knows this was not a good idea.

Dyr

NIMAN wrote: »

These 2 need to be named and shamed. They deserve everything that's coming to me. If I employed either of them I would be having a good talk to them when they return to work.

You think those smicks have jobs?

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Imagine letting another culture live in your head and life to such a degree that you allow that hate grow to that level.

Fvckin scarlet for them. Watching this on twitter all day. They’re really going to regret doing this and this video getting out there.

Both sides would be guilty of this kind of carry on. Although a family wedding might be an unusual place to witness it.

What the problem is here, is the 'timing'. If ever something underlined how under siege belligerent Unionism feels itself to be under is, it is that.

Bannasidhe

I think there are many events where songs with a sectarian 'nationalist' sentiment are belted out with equal fervour. Two sides of the same stupid tribal coin.
But you know, I know most of the words of the 'Anti-British' songs because I heard them as a child. Wolfe Tones, Makem and Clancy on the tele etc.

That latter had one containing the lyrics "Up the long ladder and down the short rope, to Hell with king Billy and God Bless the Pope". Do you think that's not still sung?

Fields of Athenry is a more subtle version but still it's a what those British *£*£ds did to us song - and we sing it at sporting events. Thousands of us.

Is it one rule for them and another for us?

TBH the most out there anti English song I ever heard was sung by a Welsh player at the after dinner of an International sporting event. If that had been filmed and posted on social media there would have been a complete sh*tstorm.
Just goes to show there are idiots everywhere and they frequently idiot in public.

Did anyone think this rubbish had gone away?
People still vote for the DUP.
The Orange Order still marches.

Someone shot Lyra McKee.
And many someones are protecting that person's identity.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1180774019622211584

threeball

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think there are many events where songs with a sectarian 'nationalist' sentiment are belted out with equal fervour. Two sides of the same stupid tribal coin.
But you know, I know most of the words of the 'Anti-British' songs because I heard them as a child. Wolfe Tones, Makem and Clancy on the tele etc.

That latter had one containing the lyrics "Up the long ladder and down the short rope, to Hell with king Billy and God Bless the Pope". Do you think that's not still sung?

Fields of Athenry is a more subtle version but still it's a what those British *£*£ds did to us song - and we sing it at sporting events. Thousands of us.

Is it one rule for them and another for us?

TBH the most out there anti English song I ever heard was sung by a Welsh player at the after dinner of an International sporting event. If that had been filmed and posted on social media there would have been a complete sh*tstorm.
Just goes to show there are idiots everywhere and they frequently idiot in public.

Did anyone think this rubbish had gone away?
People still vote for the DUP.
The Orange Order still marches.

Someone shot Lyra McKee.
And many someones are protecting that person's identity.

The British sing the fields of athenry at sporting events themselves or a bastardised version at least.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

The British sing the fields of athenry at sporting events themselves or a bastardised version at least.

Liverpool fans sing Fields of Anfield Road. Pretty sure they don’t chant “IRA, IRA” during the chorus though.

threeball

Aegir wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

The British sing the fields of athenry at sporting events themselves or a bastardised version at least.

Liverpool fans sing Fields of Anfield Road. Pretty sure they don’t chant “IRA, IRA” during the chorus though.

They don't at rugby or gaa match either.

Stop moaning ffs

threeball wrote: »

They don't at rugby or gaa match either.

FOA is often sang at rugby games here.