Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

bnt · 17-10-2019 4:26pm

By having the (partial) customs border in the Irish Sea, rather than on land, isn't that a good thing for the prospects of a 32-county reunion? Neither Westminster nor Brussels were ever going to propose a deal that would keep the DUP happy, so the deal will have to get through Parliament without them. Any chance of reversing Brexit is gone: it's happening, and any MPs who think a No vote from them will change that are deluding themselves.

AllGunsBlazing · 17-10-2019 4:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whatever about the lib dems Corbyn is not a fan of the eu and has no problem leaving it.

Was calling for Article 50 to be invoked the morning of the referendum result on BBC television. Couldn't contain himself.

tigger123 · 17-10-2019 4:37pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There are ways around it, apparently.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-law-benn-act-latest-today-deal-boris-johnson-a9154701.html

Johnsons rhetoric these past few weeks would suggest he is not worried about it either. And yes, before you say it, I know his government has confirmed they will send a letter if needed.

Bojo and co have been making reference to holes in the Benn act for weeks now, without ever actually giving detail on how they could circumvent it. They're talking b*ollox.

Kidchameleon · 17-10-2019 4:47pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Bojo and co have been making reference to holes in the Benn act for weeks now, without ever actually giving detail on how they could circumvent it. They're talking b*ollox.

Why would they tell everyone and give their hand away

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 4:55pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why would they tell everyone and give their hand away

Boris has already given an undertaking to a court that he will obey the act. If there was a way around the act he would not have done that.

Kidchameleon · 17-10-2019 5:00pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Boris has already given an undertaking to a court that he will obey the act. If there was a way around the act he would not have done that.

I am well aware Boris said that. He has also said that they are leaving on the 31st of October deal or no deal. If there is a way around the act, he can say whatever he likes about sending an extension letter then do something else.

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 5:04pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I am well aware Boris said that. He has also said that they are leaving on the 31st of October deal or no deal. If there is a way around the act, he can say whatever he likes about sending an extension letter then do something else.

there isn't a way around the act. actual qualified lawyers have confirmed this. JRM is not a qualified lawyer.

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 5:15pm

Boris has said 2 things:

1. He will request an extension if there is no deal. He said this to the people who check things and have the power to jail him him if he lies.

2. He will leave on the 31st, deal or no deal. He said this to the people who believe the EU is about to conscript everyone into the "EU army", believe the US will give them a great trade deal, that 'WTO terms' is a great idea and that Britain will once again be a super power nation.

You can choose which you want to believe.

davedanon · 17-10-2019 5:20pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why would they tell everyone and give their hand away

Your faith in them is actually quite touching. These people are idiots. Old Etonians told from birth that their destiny is to rule. Utter simpletons. Dunning-Kruger made flesh.

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 5:27pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there isn't a way around the act. actual qualified lawyers have confirmed this. JRM is not a qualified lawyer.

The AG of the United Kingdom begs to differ.

SeaBreezes · 17-10-2019 5:28pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Boris has said 2 things:

1. He will request an extension if there is no deal. He said this to the people who check things and have the power to jail him him if he lies.

2. He will leave on the 31st, deal or no deal. He said this to the people who believe the EU is about to conscript everyone into the "EU army", believe the US will give them a great trade deal, that 'WTO terms' is a great idea and that Britain will once again be a super power nation.

You can choose which you want to believe.

If he told me water was wet I'd have to check to be sure...

An old clip of economist Dimitri Grozoubinski discussing trade deals after Brexit. ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5WGDEVUTbAA

Kidchameleon · 17-10-2019 5:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there isn't a way around the act. actual qualified lawyers have confirmed this. JRM is not a qualified lawyer.

Actual qualified lawyers have confirmed this to the best of their knowledge.

Who said JRM is a lawyer? Boris and co. have some of the best lawyers in the world at their disposal. IMHO, there probably is a way around the act but that avenue may not even be needed. We shall see.

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 5:59pm

It's essential this deal is now passed so there is goodwill for the next stage of the FTA negotiations.

No more delays, PLEASE!

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 6:05pm

There are ways around it:
1. Collapse the government under the FTPA.
2 Ask Poland to veto the extension.
3. Ask the EU itself to refuse the extension.

All are unlawful to varying degrees, and anyone dumb enough to associate themselves with such a strategy deserve all they get.

Bear in mind that the Benn Act also allows the courts to direct an official to sign the letter on behalf of the PM, were he to refuse. So, there's that.

Also, I wouldn't put any weight on that silly YouTube clip - Cox has very clearly stated that any effort to thwart the Benn Act would be foolhardy, and would lead to resignations.

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 6:07pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

There are ways around it:
1. Collapse the government under the FTPA.
2 Ask Poland to veto the extension.
3. Ask the EU itself to refuse the extension.

All are unlawful to varying degrees, and anyone dumb enough to associate themselves with such a strategy deserve all they get.

Bear in mind that the Benn Act also allows the courts to direct an official to sign the letter on behalf of the PM, were he to refuse. So, there's that.

Also, I wouldn't put any weight on that silly YouTube clip - Cox has very clearly stated that any effort to thwart the Benn Act would be foolhardy, and would lead to resignations.

So what? Brexit will happen one way or another on 31 Oct and that's all that matters.

s7ryf3925pivug · 17-10-2019 7:54pm

Livia Ugly Tenure wrote: »

Lots of stuff written about this, lots of strong opinions, but I can't find a summary of what the deal actually is.

Here is a summary of differences between May's deal and this one in terms of what will happen to NI.

How is Boris Johnson's Brexit deal different from Theresa May's?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/how-is-boris-johnson-brexit-deal-different-from-theresa-may?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Calhoun · 17-10-2019 7:57pm

Livia Ugly Tenure wrote: »

Here is a summary of differences between May's deal and this one in terms of what will happen to NI.

How is Boris Johnson's Brexit deal different from Theresa May's?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/how-is-boris-johnson-brexit-deal-different-from-theresa-may?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Simple because its Boris's deal and he gets to stay in power a little longer which is what he wants.

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 8:12pm

The Guardian is running with "EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson"

What's that about - Junker seemed pretty clear in his letter this morning that this was it, the final furlong.

McMurphy · 17-10-2019 8:13pm

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 8:21pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

So what? Brexit will happen one way or another on 31 Oct and that's all that matters.

It wont happen "one way or another".

It will happen according to the laws and processes in place to facilitate Brexit. Part of those processes is that Parliament agree to the deal. If they do, wahay! you are away.
But if they dont, then Boris needs to apply for an extension which he may or may not get. After that, the whole process starts over again.

"So what?" has a poor track record as a legal or political strategy. But why is it that among Brexiteers, it's on a par with the Magna Carta?

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 8:26pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

It wont happen "one way or another".

It will happen according to the laws and processes in place to facilitate Brexit. Part of those processes is that Parliament agree to the deal. If they do, wahay! you are away.
But if they dont, then Boris needs to apply for an extension which he may or may not get. After that, the whole process starts over again.

"So what?" has a poor track record as a legal or political strategy. But why is it that among Brexiteers, it's on a par with the Magna Carta?

Bojo is in the driving seat this time, not Treason May, so your dream of brexit being cancelled is very remote indeed.

s7ryf3925pivug · 17-10-2019 8:27pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Simple because its Boris's deal and he gets to stay in power a little longer which is what he wants.

The question was bundled with the link in the app, I wasn't asking it, just pasted the link to the article.

I also sent it to my wife on messenger. She replied with "What's the answer?"

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 8:44pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Bojo is in the driving seat this time, not Treason May, so your dream of brexit being cancelled is very remote indeed.

The sooner you are gone, the better. Just leave NI where you found it.

Good luck.

PS: Dont forget to take Arlene and Jeffrey D. with you. ta.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 8:52pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The sooner you are gone, the better. Just leave NI where you found it.

Good luck.

PS: Dont forget to take Arlene and Jeffrey D. with you. ta.

It's gas. If Theresa is Treason May...who said 'no PM would ever accept the backstop' but got shafted by the DUP...what does that make Boris from a Unionist viewpoint?
In their opinion a British PM and the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party has just put them outside the union.
Looking forward to hearing the moniker they come up with that distinguishes him from May.

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 8:52pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The sooner you are gone, the better. Just leave NI where you found it.

Good luck.

PS: Dont forget to take Arlene and Jeffrey D. with you. ta.

NI shall remain a firm and cherished member of the United Kingdom.

26000 Elephants · 17-10-2019 8:58pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

NI shall remain a firm and cherished member of the United Kingdom.

LOL!

Boris will be remembered with the other greats from Irish history like Wolfe Tone, O'Connell, Pierce and Casement.

Calhoun · 17-10-2019 9:19pm

Livia Ugly Tenure wrote: »

The question was bundled with the link in the app, I wasn't asking it, just pasted the link to the article.

I also sent it to my wife on messenger. She replied with "What's the answer?"

Lol i know, i just find it funny that all the posturing and opposition to the deal from parts of the Tory party was all a power grab.

They have put their own ambition ahead of the economic welfare of the country. Its even greater though as they have convinced the simple minded that brexit means brexit and if they split it wont be the lower skilled and working class who will be ****ed over.

FutureTeashock · 17-10-2019 9:29pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Lol i know, i just find it funny that all the posturing and opposition to the deal from parts of the Tory party was all a power grab.

They have put their own ambition ahead of the economic welfare of the country. Its even greater though as they have convinced the simple minded that brexit means brexit and if they split it wont be the lower skilled and working class who will be ****ed over.

We'll see what you say when the glorious EU harmonises the corporate tax rate EU wide. I'm screenshoting this for the occasion.

Calhoun · 17-10-2019 9:44pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

We'll see what you say when the glorious EU harmonises the corporate tax rate EU wide. I'm screenshoting this for the occasion.

I assume if that happens we will have a say in it and as long as our government is part of it then i don't mind.

The corporate tax rate is not a sustainable way to keep foreign investment, I prefer having actually business on the ground and not just company plates on walls to funnel tax through.

I suspect though you don't really care about anything like that as you think we would be better with the old master.

P.Walnuts · 17-10-2019 10:02pm

Things seem to change by the hour, but Jamie Bryson is in meltdown on twitter so I can only presume things are moving in a positive direction

Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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