Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Odhinn

After saying he would not seek an extension in Parliament, the EU say Boris Johnson has told them to expect a letter.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/eu-will-grant-brexit-extension-if-johnson-sends-letter-says-brussels?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2BEPedO9mre_JTDuM6RGYLcqSUCDSMst91SMkqn-DmxPqMN4Rfmq6FM4o#Echobox=1571518606


This gets more confusing with each passing moment, tbh.

Odhinn

The British government has sent the European Union a request to postpone the date of its departure from the bloc, European Council President Donald Tusk has said.
"The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react," Mr Tusk tweeted, referring to a letter the UK parliament forced Prime Minister Boris Johnson to send.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1019/1084364-brexit-vote-parliament/

AllGunsBlazing

He's legally bound to seek an extension. Actively participating in negotiations is where it could get a little less clear cut.


Reckon it's only a matter of time before someone out of the 27 says "fvck 'em" and vetoes it.

FrancieBrady

Still gaming and disrespecting the EU to win advantage in his own chaotic political mess. Rogue nation to all intents and purposes.

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1185661892557201408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1185661892557201408&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058016732%26page%3D191

Loafing Oaf

3) a signed letter from Boris saying we don’t want an extension

I reckon the EU will treat this like Khruschev's second letter during the Cuban Missile Crisis:P

26000 Elephants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still gaming and disrespecting the EU to win advantage in his own chaotic political mess. Rogue nation to all intents and purposes.

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1185661892557201408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1185661892557201408&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058016732%26page%3D191

What can you say, I hope that's a joke. Possible outcomes are,

1. It's still a request, signed or unsigned, 1 or 3

2. UK courts may find that this is a deliberate frustration and hold him in contempt of court if he does not sort it.

3. The 3rd letter is illegal, as it directly defies Benn Act.

Either way, it's all descended into farce. The UK wont be leaving anytime soon and this mess is going to go on for years.

Donald Trump

26000 Elephants wrote: »

3. The 3rd letter is illegal, as it directly defies Benn Act.

Does it though? The Benn act was that he had to send the first letter, I doubt it said that he couldn't send more!


Semantics maybe, and definitely against the spirit of the act, but whether it is strictly against it is another matter. I think he said in the third letter that he does not want an extension

Imreoir2

Donald Trump wrote: »

Does it though? The Benn act was that he had to send the first letter, I doubt it said that he couldn't send more!


Semantics maybe, and definitely against the spirit of the act, but whether it is strictly against it is another matter. I think he said in the third letter that he does not want an extension

He did not specifically ask the EU to ignore the first letter either. Just expressed his own opinion on the matter, which we all knew anyway. I don't think his additional letter will have the effect of nullyifing the first letter and as such is not illegal as it does not frustrate the act.

Beasty

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yup, no idea what an extension achieves

Possibly another referendum, but I suspect even that may well be in favour of Brexit again given what's been going on for a long period

The worst thing would be an election, as Boris only needs a third of the vote, although Farage will pick up a lot of seats as well - the Brexiteers will be gung-ho and will undoubtedly try and force through a no-deal Brexit in those circumstances - the worst of all worlds. Hence there's a big risk of extending as the possibility of overturning the original decision is arguably receding

Equally the reason the Brexiteers have been falling in behind a deal that is not much different from the one they voted down under May are paranoid that another referendum may go against them. Of course sentiment can shift due to events during the build-up to the vote which makes another referendum a risk for both sides, but equally it may end up being the only way to resolve the impasse

Padre_Pio

Who ever thought three years ago this would turn into such a sh*tshow.

We all knew it was going to be bad, but nowhere near this bad.

Kermit.de.frog

It's in our interest for them just to sign the deal and get out.

Fed up of the lot of them, leavers and remainers.

Leave us alone and be on your way.

Loafing Oaf

Imreoir2 wrote: »

He did not specifically ask the EU to ignore the first letter either. Just expressed his own opinion on the matter, which we all knew anyway. I don't think his additional letter will have the effect of nullyifing the first letter

Possibly he doesn't expect it to, and it's really about enabling him to say he honoured his promise no to 'ask' for an extension...

Danzy

The arrogance of the pricks who are asking for another Referendum.

3 years preparation thrown out, to suit them, and years more uncertainty.

This is a deal that London and Brussels and ourselves can live with.

Kermit.de.frog

Coming soon to UK supermarkets

mickdw

Danzy wrote: »

The arrogance of the pricks who are asking for another Referendum.

3 years preparation thrown out, to suit them, and years more uncertainty.

This is a deal that London and Brussels and ourselves can live with.

A referendum is the only solution. Did anybody truly k ow what brexit meant when asked to vote originally? Certainly even Prime Ministers didn't even see the full extent of what it might mean and how hard it would be to settle the Irish aspect. Imagine then in comparison the grasp that your average man in the street had!
A referendum with some more clarified options for the people would be welcome I think.

Eric Cartman

mickdw wrote: »

A referendum is the only solution. Did anybody truly k ow what brexit meant when asked to vote originally? Certainly even Prime Ministers didn't even see the full extent of what it might mean and how hard it would be to settle the Irish aspect. Imagine then in comparison the grasp that your average man in the street had!
A referendum with some more clarified options for the people would be welcome I think.

No deal was even mentioned as a possibility in the remain focussed information leaflet sent out by cameron agead of the referendum.

At this point its the remainers and DUP stalling things hoping to upset the democratic process.

suicide_circus

if one country does veto an extension, any bets who it will be?

Kidchameleon

suicide_circus wrote: »

if one country does veto an extension, any bets who it will be?

Hungary

Boris hasn't given a reason for an extension such as a GE or new referendum, so the EU will look weak if they extend based on a wishy washy forced request.

The max they should extend is a couple of weeks to facilitate the current deal to get done.

Danzy

mickdw wrote: »

A referendum is the only solution. Did anybody truly k ow what brexit meant when asked to vote originally? Certainly even Prime Ministers didn't even see the full extent of what it might mean and how hard it would be to settle the Irish aspect. Imagine then in comparison the grasp that your average man in the street had!
A referendum with some more clarified options for the people would be welcome I think.

We know now and we have a workable solution for the 6 Counties.

More clarified options, you say, lol.

You want this to run for a decade.

In the meantime, do we reverse all years of preparation, carry on further, put them on hold, what trade routes do I plan for sales nect year.

Do I presume that if this is flipped now, that it won't be different again in a few years and repeat ad nauseam.

Let Starmer and co know that Dublin and Brussels are not going to thank him for this. It's internal party politics.

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boris hasn't given a reason for an extension such as a GE or new referendum, so the EU will look weak if they extend based on a wishy washy forced request.

The max they should extend is a couple of weeks to facilitate the current deal to get done.

They'll give as long as it needs to get this deal through.

They'll say No extension to focus minds.

McMurphy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hungary

There was a Hungarian MEP on the BBC the other evening, didn't catch her name, but she scoffed at any notion of them (Hungarians) using a veto, cited it as political and economic suicide.

You may get that idea out of your head.

mickdw

Danzy wrote: »

We know now and we have a workable solution for the 6 Counties.

More clarified options, you say, lol.

You want this to run for a decade.

In the meantime, do we reverse all years of preparation, carry on further, put them on hold, what trade routes do I plan for sales nect year.

Do I presume that if this is flipped now, that it won't be different again in a few years and repeat ad nauseam.

Let Starmer and co know that Dublin and Brussels are not going to thank him for this. It's internal party politics.

Do you really think it's a workable solution.
It sounds like a nightmare to me with tax laws with more holes than a block of cheese.
Reversing 3 years of prep that has so far come to nothing sounds like a good option versus reversing in one hurried action, thousands of rules and regulations that have been slowly and carefully stitched together over 40 years.
Do you not think that sales could be better planned into the future if the whole brexit idea was scrapped?
If it was scrapped now, it would be along time before the idea would ever be floated again.
I think you are being short sighted in wanting to move forward with what is currently agreed as a deal. That will guarantee years of pain for people and business alike. Take a step back, have the whole thing overturned, take 3 months uncertainty and then hopefully remain as we are.
Do you stand over the actions of Boris in sending unsigned letter followed up by a letter stating his own opinion? I find that the work of an out of control dictator. I was in favour of what Boris was doing, playing hardball, getting discussion opened up again etc but he now appears to be out of control and dangerous.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote: »

the EU will look weak

UK leaving the EU is a big geopolitical event.
IMO, in this area "Europe" has had a long list of collective failures, weakness and lack of will going all the way back to the Yugoslav wars.

I don't think the common purpose and fortitude is there to give the UK the bum's rush even though it probably needs to be done soon for the health of the EU (and maybe even the UK political system?) at this point.
So the farce will likely just carry on until something snaps politically and breaks the deadlock on the UK side of things.
How is the EU to respond when situation is so dysfunctional that the PM is forced to speak out both sides of his mouth (firing off extend/don't extend letters).

Irish government would opt to extend indefinately no matter what shenanigans the UK gets up to and regardless of any damage to the EU.

Odhinn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Coming soon to UK supermarkets

....good jaysus.

fly_agaric

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Coming soon to UK supermarkets

The amazon reviews for it are... surprisingly positive. Given a choice (post nuclear holocaust?) think I'd prefer an EU/Irish chicken in a can.:pac:

26000 Elephants

Donald Trump wrote: »

Does it though? The Benn act was that he had to send the first letter, I doubt it said that he couldn't send more!


Semantics maybe, and definitely against the spirit of the act, but whether it is strictly against it is another matter. I think he said in the third letter that he does not want an extension

We will find out tomorrow, I believe its being brought before the Scottish courts as an attempt to frustrate the Benn Act.

The request appears to be valid even if unsigned, and the other 2 letters have no standing and are being treated as a childish sideshow.

Hector Savage

Another Brexit delay - in other words , delays will just keep coming and Brexit will never happen.
Most people will be delighted, but remember one day it will be something YOU vote for that will be overturned by the political elite.

I would have voted remain if I lived in the UK, but democracy must be respected and it's sad to see this utter farce.

FrancieBrady

Hector Savage wrote: »

Another Brexit delay - in other words , delays will just keep coming and Brexit will never happen.
Most people will be delighted, but remember one day it will be something YOU vote for that will be overturned by the political elite.

I would have voted remain if I lived in the UK, but democracy must be respected and it's sad to see this utter farce.

Democracy was respected...a deal, similar to the one on offer now was negotiated.

There are no 'elites' blocking that deal. The democratic process, acceptable to those in the UK for centuries now, is what is preventing Brexit from happening.

suicide_circus

on what basis should the EU give Britain another delay? the deal is there. the opponents of the deal are not genuinely opposed to some specific element of the deal, they just dont want to leave the EU. its a bad faith argument. there is no deal that they'd be happy with. No amount of negotiations or compromises will satisfy.