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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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    #7352
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Leave voters might feel some kind of emotional satisfaction if and when the UK finally, officially leaves, but it's not going to bring the UK's troubles to any conclusion. There's not going to be any triumphant sailing off into the sunset in the Good Ship Britannia while the credits roll.

    The original vote was for an almost entirely undefined 'something' - that 'something' remains almost entirely undefined, except most industry groups seem to have concluded that the 'something' is going to be very bad for business.


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    #7353
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Leave voters might feel some kind of emotional satisfaction if and when the UK finally, officially leaves, but it's not going to bring the UK's troubles to any conclusion. There's not going to be any triumphant sailing off into the sunset in the Good Ship Britannia while the credits roll.

    The original vote was for an almost entirely undefined 'something' - that 'something' remains almost entirely undefined, except most industry groups seem to have concluded that the 'something' is going to be very bad for business.

    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.


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    #7354
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.

    Can you link to Cameron's guide?


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    #7355
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Can you link to Cameron's guide?

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf


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    #7356
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.


    If they knew what they were voing for, why do the options for a deal keep changing? Why is no deal even a possibility? Why did it take so long for a deal to even come to the table? (I think it was about 2 years after the vote before the first deal was voted on)


    If people knew, in actual detail (not fuzzy aspirational soundbites) what they were voting for, why are they stuck in this apparently endless limbo?


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    #7357
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    So we're not going to find Boris dead in a ditch on Thursday so.


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    #7358
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,606 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    So we're not going to find Boris dead in a ditch on Thursday so.

    Oh, I imagine there'll be plenty of halloween fun around that...


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    #7359
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.

    That stuff was rubbished by the Leave campaign as Project Fear. The people who voted Leave were told that all those nasty predictions were just lies to try and get them to not vote Leave.

    I have absolutely no idea how you now have the balls to sit here and lie to us and tell us that Leave voters knew they were voting for No Deal. Their own side said there would be deals and sunshine and lollipops and any talk contrary to that was part of an EU conspiracy.

    Shameful attempt at a rewriting of history.


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    #7360
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

    It says the exact opposite of what you claimed.


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    #7361
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    It says the exact opposite of what you claimed.

    no it doesn't ,
    "The Government thinks that this would make it hard to agree a good, new deal quickly with the EU. "

    it talks about how trade deals could take up to 10 years, its a very pro remain leaflet that spells out that a 'no deal' brexit and all its pitfalls are a real possibility.


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    #7362
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    no it doesn't ,
    "The Government thinks that this would make it hard to agree a good, new deal quickly with the EU. "

    it talks about how trade deals could take up to 10 years, its a very pro remain leaflet that spells out that a 'no deal' brexit and all its pitfalls are a real possibility.

    Here's what you said:

    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.

    There words or concept of 'No Deal' aren't mentioned anywhere. In fact, it is eerily prescient as it describes a fall in sterling, the length of time it will take to leave, impact on workers rights etc. However, it never once speaks of No Deal.


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    #7363
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Here's what you said:

    david camerons remain guide almost exclusively predicted a no deal brexit as a scare tactic and kept just mentioning a deal as a 'possibility' The way its panned out was the outcome that guide accurately stated so people definitely knew what they were voting for.

    There words or concept of 'No Deal' aren't mentioned anywhere. In fact, it is eerily prescient as it describes a fall in sterling, the length of time it will take to leave, impact on workers rights etc. However, it never once speaks of No Deal.

    it just keeps repeating that things will cost more, that things like healthcare and visa free travel are handed up, the guide in no way predicts anything like a comprehensive customs union or trade deal.


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    #7364
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    it just keeps repeating that things will cost more, that things like healthcare and visa free travel are handed up, the guide in no way predicts anything like a comprehensive customs union or trade deal.

    No. In a very simple way it outlines the difficulties in leaving the EU. Nowhere at all does it speak of No Deal or it's consequences. At all times, the assumption is that there is a transition phase. Just like Johnson and Farage promised.


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    #7365
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ha, saw this on Reddit regarding the extension.. Sums up Brexit perfectly.



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    #7366
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf
    quote from the guide:

    This is a document intended to be easier to read for people with learning difficulties.

    I don't think fullly informed decisions should be based on this.
    And if it IS the will of the people a referendum
    To double check the satisfaction with the deal (as JRM said would happen) won't make any difference will it?


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    #7367
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,606 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ha, saw this on Reddit regarding the extension.. Sums up Brexit perfectly.

    /QUOTE]

    Uhh... gave up after 4 minutes of electronic noise, but no lyrics. Was there a point you were trying to make here?


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    #7368
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Uhh... gave up after 4 minutes of electronic noise, but no lyrics. Was there a point you were trying to make here?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone

    It's a particular type of musical tone that almost inexplicably sounds like it keeps rising.. There's never a drop.

    That's the analogy for Brexit. We keep building up to the big moments thinking this is it.. But it never stops.


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    #7369
    Tea Shock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 345 ✭✭Tea Shock


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    people definitely knew what they were voting for.

    Oh people definitely knew what they were voting for alright

    They were voting for "The easiest deal in history" and "They will come running down the road after us" and taking the imaginary £350 per week they send to the EU and sending it to the NHS instead.




    And then Leave won and the leave campaign moved the goal posts and to this day, few people seems to have noticed



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    #7370
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    B0jangles wrote: »
    If they knew what they were voing for, why do the options for a deal keep changing? Why is no deal even a possibility? Why did it take so long for a deal to even come to the table? (I think it was about 2 years after the vote before the first deal was voted on)


    If people knew, in actual detail (not fuzzy aspirational soundbites) what they were voting for, why are they stuck in this apparently endless limbo?

    I think.it just comes down to the fact that they literally never thought of Northern Ireland as being the one land border with the EU.It just never occurred to them, they figured they are an island, no bother, trade talks could work it all out, everything would get sorted. They were absolutely blind to the fact that they have a land border with the EU.....and that makes things a hell of a lot more complicated.Additionally so with the backdrop of its history.


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    #7371
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If the Brits English think they're going to create some Singaporesque economic nirvana on the EU's doorstep they've another thing coming. The Germans and all the rest, who now have to put billions more into the EU budget because of Brexit, will make a point of getting that money back via ensuring that the British will not get the economic benefits of the EU once they leave. Watch the British whinge about "discrimination" when they realise how much economic activity they will now be excluded from.

    Germany’s annual EU budget bill set to double to €33bn


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    #7372
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Now they cant agree on an election either, come end of January and nothing will have progressed. Shouldn't have offered that extension. This is past turning into ground hog day. Sir Humphreys is laughing all the way.

    I said it months ago. Rather have a troubling end than troubles with no end.


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    #7373
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Now they cant agree on an election either,

    They just have.


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    #7374
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Boggles wrote: »
    They just have.

    when did that happen? The latest i can see is that there will be a one page bill voted on.


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    #7375
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    when did that happen? The latest i can see is that there will be a one page bill voted on.
    Jeremy Corbyn told a shadow cabinet meeting this morning: "I have consistently said that we are ready for an election and our support is subject to a no-deal Brexit being off the table.

    "We have now heard from the EU that the extension of Article 50 to 31 January has been confirmed, so for the next three months, our condition of taking no deal off the table has now been met.

    "We will now launch the most ambitious and radical campaign for real change our country has ever seen    ."

    .


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    #7376
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Boggles wrote: »
    .

    I look forward to loads of noise about Corbyn, well attended rallies, optimism......

    and a majority for Conservatives.


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    #7377
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Boggles wrote: »
    .

    but no agreement on when the election will be. parliament still has not agreed to an election.


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    #7378
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    but no agreement on when the election will be. parliament still has not agreed to an election.

    It's happening, Labour were left on their own, they had to back it.

    9th or 15th.


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    #7379
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Boggles wrote: »
    It's happening, Labour were left on their own, they had to back it.

    9th or 15th.

    or the 11th or the 12th. You posted as if this was all nailed down. it isn't.


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    #7380
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or the 11th or the 12th. You posted as if this was all nailed down. it isn't.

    Jesus, stop being so pedantic FFS, all parties have now backed a pre Christmas election.

    It's happening.


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    #7381
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Boggles wrote: »
    Jesus, stop being so pedantic FFS, all parties have now backed a pre Christmas election.

    It's happening.

    In fairness though there's a lot of difference in the couple of days from early to mid December for the time for debate and passing legislation through both houses as well as the sizeable student vote which would have ramifications to university towns if students are still at uni for the election and voting there as opposed to being registered at home and already being on holidays by then.


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