Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FrancieBrady

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Indyref2 is as likely under Boris as a Scottish World Cup win. The Tories have their majority with what, maybe a single Scottish seat? What bargaining chip could the SNP possibly have?

It's a no win situation for Johnson. If he denies it, Scotland festers more and more making it impossible for a No vote to get any traction when a Ref inevitably comes.

Agricola

After the decade suffered under the Tories, the last three years of chaos and after watching Johnson operate as PM, it just shows how catastrophic Corbyn and Labour were in this election to loose by that margin.

A simple slogan, blustered with confidence was enough to win it. The social media, simplistic era of modern politics strikes again. A lot of naval gazing going on in Britain today but for Labour it came down to having a credible leader, clean shaven in a sharp suit with a straight forward can-do message of optimism. Had they had that, it'd be a very different result.

It's going to be a tough lesson for them to learn when they find out Brexit isnt getting done any time soon and they're only starting out on a path of massive constitutional and economic upheaval over the next 5 years.

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the brexit party didnt win a single seat. they have no relevance and neither does farage.

Never said they did have any relevance, they didnt win but the votes they received out did independents, greens and lib dems in almost every constituency that they ran, they came third in so many seats.

My point was the brexit farage wanted is on the cards without his involvement

JohnnyFlash

Labour need to occupy the centre left, be pragmatic, get elected, then introduce ideas from the left. Having a beard as leader might appeal to the middle-class Marxist sorts, but it doesn’t appeal to the man and woman on the street.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Never said they did have any relevance, they didnt win but the votes they received out did independents, greens and lib dems in almost every constituency that they ran, they came third in so many seats.

My point was the brexit farage wanted is on the cards without his involvement

it absolutely isn't. The current WA is nowhere close to what farage wanted. Anne Widdicombe made that abundantly clear when she was interviewed on C4 last night.

easypazz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The cards are now stacked in the faragian vision, we now have a party at the helm that are prepared to leave deal or no deal, quickly and whereas before the EU extensions could be used on a softer position to force the UK to capitulate, its now the EU’s job to make concessions to try avoid a no deal brexit and try agree a deal before deadline day.

Amendments arent going to soften this up and the EU getting divorce money is pretty much off the table.

The deal is already agreed by Johnson. He is leaving with that deal next month.

There is no question of renegotiating or leaving without a deal.

easypazz

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Indyref2 is as likely under Boris as a Scottish World Cup win. The Tories have their majority with what, maybe a single Scottish seat? What bargaining chip could the SNP possibly have?

I am not an expert but listening to the BBC last night they seemed to be saying that Johnson will have to agree to a second referendum at some point.

easypazz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Never said they did have any relevance, they didnt win but the votes they received out did independents, greens and lib dems in almost every constituency that they ran, they came third in so many seats.

My point was the brexit farage wanted is on the cards without his involvement

Have you seen him interviewed since the result?

Pretty much said it looks like he is getting half a loaf instead of nothing.

There is nobody in the UK talking about no deal, hard brexit or renegotiate a deal.

joseywhales

Well this couldn't be going better, a wa and a border in the Irish sea, well played coveney, varadkar and barnier, well played. We literally got everything we possibly could get from the negotiation.

And what a crushing blow for the dup, they could not have performed worse, from the may deal they scuppered to a border in the Irish sea, they could not have done worse, bar advocating for a border poll.

FunLover18

Eric Cartman wrote: »

My point was the brexit farage wanted is on the cards without his involvement

Which Brexit is that? He's flip-flopped a few times.

end of the road

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The upshot of all this is that the DUP can return to obscurity again.

oh absolutely. couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
it was brilliant last night to see one of their candidates losing to sf, i bet that was a massive kick for them, losing to their enemy.
anyway some more good news to come out of this election is farage being more or less rejected, again.
also couldn't happen to a nicer individual, hopefully he will get the message and go away this time, all though i suspect not.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It’s dawning on the working class that today’s Labour is no friend of theirs

they actually are. it's rather the working class don't see it, as people are so used to existing policies which don't work and cost more then they should, that policies which seek to address serious issues and inequality are saw as strange and not to be voted for or trusted.
never mind the smear campaign corbyn had to deal with from the gutter media which people swallowed wholesale.

Tell me how

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It’s dawning on the working class that today’s Labour is no friend of theirs

Think it's more a case of the gloss completely and utterly faded from Jeremy Corbyn after three abysmal years as leader of the opposition while the Brexit shenanigans have been going on.

If the working class feel that Labour is not their friend, they certainly don't have any within the Conservative ranks.

Kidchameleon

Fantastic results, I'm really pleased. We can "speculate" all we want about incompetent Labour leaders, Boris being a "liar", slick and smug etc. but those of us who do not have our heads in the globalist sand know that the majority of people in the UK want to leave the EU, that is why things have gone this way. It is nice to know the Brits do not believe the EU sponsored scare mongering.

end of the road

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

The only way for Labour to win this election was to have a likeable centrist leader and sensible policies that the British people wanted to support.

Instead they went with Corbyn — who has the lowest satisfaction ratings of any opposition leader in five decades, and who has failed to deal effectively with the rife antisemitism in his party.

They also went with a radical tax-and-spend manifesto and a plan to renationalize water, railways, and energy that would have sent the UK back to the '70s.

It's hardly a surprise that they lost so badly. Corbyn should have tendered his resignation this morning.

he actually did deal effectively with the "rife" antisemitism in the party, but that would never be enough to stop the smear campaign.
the idea that renationalizations would bring britain back to the 70s is laughable. for a start nearly every other european railway is nationalized, and infrastructure like water being in the hands of government given it is a vital human right is absolutely the correct thing to happen.
but if the british people want to leave them in private hands and all that goes with it then that is ultimately their right. they are probably so used to it at this stage anyway.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

they offered them because it was clear britain couldn't get it's house in order and decide what they actually want.
and it still can't.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic, should they not be happy the anti semetic party lost

why would they given there is no anti semitic party.

end of the road

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Fantastic results, I'm really pleased. We can "speculate" all we want about incompetent Labour leaders, Boris being a "liar", slick and smug etc. but those of us who do not have our heads in the globalist sand know that the majority of people in the UK want to leave the EU, that is why things have gone this way. It is nice to know the Brits do not believe the EU sponsored scare mongering.

the majority of people who voted in the 2016 referendum want to leave the EU.
they are not an actual majority however, but very much a minority compared to over 50000000 who either wanted to remain or who didn't care enough to vote.
the conservatives majority likely only proves that those who wanted brexit in the first place still want it, not that the actual majority of britain now suddenly want it, all though there are no doubt some votes who just want it over with at this stage.

easypazz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Fantastic results, I'm really pleased. We can "speculate" all we want about incompetent Labour leaders, Boris being a "liar", slick and smug etc. but those of us who do not have our heads in the globalist sand know that the majority of people in the UK want to leave the EU, that is why things have gone this way. It is nice to know the Brits do not believe the EU sponsored scare mongering.

How do you know the majority want to leave?

Remain candidates got more votes in the GE AFAIK?

cryptocurrency

end of the road wrote: »

the majority of people who voted in the 2016 referendum want to leave the EU.
they are not an actual majority however, but very much a minority compared to over 50000000 who either wanted to remain or who didn't care enough to vote.
the conservatives majority likely only proves that those who wanted brexit in the first place still want it, not that the actual majority of britain now suddenly want it, all though there are no doubt some votes who just want it over with at this stage.

50 million hey, babies and all sorts. You are counting them as remain voters.

This is why your comments can't be taken seriously.

I said it years back and I'll say it now, the UK is leave..get over it.

cryptocurrency

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a no win situation for Johnson. If he denies it, Scotland festers more and more making it impossible for a No vote to get any traction when a Ref inevitably comes.

He should give it as the SNP havn't a hope and then tell them jog on for the next 3 decades

end of the road

cryptocurrency wrote: »

50 million hey, babies and all sorts. You are counting them as remain voters.

This is why your comments can't be taken seriously.

I said it years back and I'll say it now, the UK is leave..get over it.

even if you exclude those under the age to vote, brexit voters would still be in the minority.
i would go further and make a suggestion that even if you excluded all who couldn't actually vote, brexit voters would probably be still in the minority.

suicide_circus

what is more important;

maintaining eu membership?

maintaining the union?

maintaining democracy?

end of the road

cryptocurrency wrote: »

He should give it as the SNP havn't a hope and then tell them jog on for the next 3 decades

i wouldn't bank on them not having a hope now.
it will depend on which the scotish people value more, being part of the uk or being a member of the EU.
when the last referendum happened, britain was still part of the EU, so remain made sense. it's now leaving the EU which means scotland will be worse off in all likely hood,

so another referendum, based on the snp's majority and the fact britain is leaving the EU, makes sense as the terms have changed for scotland.

Junkyard Tom

Agricola wrote: »

A simple slogan, blustered with confidence was enough to win it.

'Get Brexit done', BoJo must have said it 10 times in every interview. Every Tory knew the chant - it's the stuff of football stands. A simple message for people who were suffering from Brexit fatigue.

"because of the stupidity of the average man, he follows not reason, but faith, and the naive faith requires necessary illusion and emotionally potent oversimplifications which are provided by the myth-maker to the keep ordinary person on course."

Reinhold Niebuhr

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I predict a sudden surge of interest in the Jennifer Arcuri story as the only thing on the horizon that might disrupt the looming five years of Boris rule!:P

And inevitably the Daily Mail gets the ball rolling
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7788967/How-Boris-Johnsons-complicated-personal-life-make-getting-Brexit-look-like-childs-play.html

should the GLA or the IOPC conclude there was impropriety in the process by which Ms Arcuri received public funds, the furore could be career-threatening even for Boris.

Although if all comes to all and BoJo is forced to resign over his 'IT lessons', the Tories will just elect a new leader and keep on trucking for the rest of the term...

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'Get Brexit done', BoJo must have said it 10 times in every interview. Every Tory knew the chant - it's the stuff of football stands. A simple message for people who were suffering from Brexit fatigue.

Yeah, but it worked because of the carry on of the anti brexit brigade of the last three years..

KWAG2019

The GE result is a real wake up call: online discussion is well wide of the national mood in Britain. Lying, legal losses, buffoonery, racism, incompetence are all irrelevant to the voters.

Labour voters saw no benefit to their area for continuing fidelity to the party. The ruthlessness of Toryism in gutting those communities, successfully blaming foreigners and the EU and then getting a beaten people to vote for those responsible is a sight to behold. There is a supreme manipulative ability on show and a contempt for the working class. Given their capitulation it’s hard not to share that. There’s a new politics emerging and no doubt the Irish Tories are watching closely: that right Leo?

It’s impossible to see a Labour govt for at least 8 years.

The thing for me now is the deal the EU offers the UK. The EU has caved on reopening the WA and abandoned the backstop. I reckon Johnson will turn the screw now and look for more.

FrancieBrady

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The GE result is a real wake up call: online discussion is well wide of the national mood in Britain. Lying, legal losses, buffoonery, racism, incompetence are all irrelevant to the voters.

Labour voters saw no benefit to their area for continuing fidelity to the party. The ruthlessness of Toryism in gutting those communities, successfully blaming foreigners and the EU and then getting a beaten people to vote for those responsible is a sight to behold. There is a supreme manipulative ability on show and a contempt for the working class. Given their capitulation it’s hard not to share that. There’s a new politics emerging and no doubt the Irish Tories are watching closely: that right Leo?

It’s impossible to see a Labour govt for at least 8 years.

The thing for me now is the deal the EU offers the UK. The EU has caved on reopening the WA and abandoned the backstop. I reckon Johnson will turn the screw now and look for more.

The EU always said that they would re-open the WA if there were serious alternative proposals that could work.

cryptocurrency

end of the road wrote: »

even if you exclude those under the age to vote, brexit voters would still be in the minority.
i would go further and make a suggestion that even if you excluded all who couldn't actually vote, brexit voters would probably be still in the minority.

Based on what? Your feelings.

You do realise the council estates up and down the land have the vast majority of the people not registered to vote nor ever will...guess what, they are almost all leave.,

UK is Leave, get over it. It's a daylight gap ahead, for leave.

MadYaker

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Never said they did have any relevance, they didnt win but the votes they received out did independents, greens and lib dems in almost every constituency that they ran, they came third in so many seats.

My point was the brexit farage wanted is on the cards without his involvement

How can you say this when the last time they tried no deal it split the Tory party. Those MPs didn’t lose their seats. Logic would suggest it still isn’t an option.

cryptocurrency

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The GE result is a real wake up call: online discussion is well wide of the national mood in Britain. Lying, legal losses, buffoonery, racism, incompetence are all irrelevant to the voters.

Labour voters saw no benefit to their area for continuing fidelity to the party. The ruthlessness of Toryism in gutting those communities, successfully blaming foreigners and the EU and then getting a beaten people to vote for those responsible is a sight to behold. There is a supreme manipulative ability on show and a contempt for the working class. Given their capitulation it’s hard not to share that. There’s a new politics emerging and no doubt the Irish Tories are watching closely: that right Leo?

It’s impossible to see a Labour govt for at least 8 years.

The thing for me now is the deal the EU offers the UK. The EU has caved on reopening the WA and abandoned the backstop. I reckon Johnson will turn the screw now and look for more.

You are being emotional and not logical. Labour has been been a party that has been sucessful, they have a long history of being the only alternative and get a stint in power, make an almightly ba*** of it and are replaced by the Tories again to fix the mess. The "nasty Tories" are just the party that fixes the mess.

Labour has never no ever will be successful. Socialism is a failed ideology and the Corbyn version has a 100% failure rate thoughout history.

The UK is not racist, Boris is not racist. The UK is light years ahead of Ireland on integrating minorities.

The lying, just the those obsessed with the 31st of October, is the last swings of a desperate fool as thye lose yet another argument.

The UK wouldn't have acheived half of what it has or be the 5th largest economy, home of the CIty of London, and a military power, without the Tories.

The Tories, not labour, is the success part of the UK. Deal with it.

MadYaker

So I guess the plan now is to leave via the withdrawal agreement on the 31st of December? If Johnson can get the tories to vote for it that is.