Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

1641

The New Statesman has long been a periodical associated with the British Labour Party. Its editor, Jason Cowley, has an excellent article in today's Sunday Times outlining the reasons for Labour's collapse under Corbyn as a creditable party of the working class. As he puts, in this election the working class did not desert the Labour Party, the Labour Party had already deserted the working class.

It is behind a firewall but here is a link anyway: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-decade-of-dogma-has-left-labour-a-rotten-shell-pfhvnghzn

Infini

When that Exit Poll appeared at 10 o'clock for plenty of those in the UK..

Eric Cartman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He is PM because of FPTP. About as undemocratic a system as you can get. And Brexit is happening because Johnson and his ilk lied and lied in 2016. But it's all good.

Channel 4 did PR modeling. BJ would still be PM under that

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Channel 4 did PR modeling. BJ would still be PM under that

Nope. Absolutely nope. From Channel 4's article about PR:

"One headline is that while the Conservatives would still have the lead in terms of seats, Labour could conceivably have formed a coalition government with other parties who promised to hold a second Brexit referendum."

In fact, according to the article, The Tories would have got 80 fewer seats. And nobody would have formed a coalition with them.

First Up

Not sure what purpose these inquests serve. The UK has made its own bed so let them just go and lie in it.

The EU is going full steam ahead and will simply cut the UK out of the picture. Ireland's job is to make the most of the opportunities (there are many) while making sure we are at the centre of a strong, cohesive and united union of 27.

Nobody that matters in the EU is thinking about the UK. They are gone; bye bye and we all move on.

biko

First Up wrote: »

They are gone; bye bye and we all move on.

Brexit backers block Westminster roads chanting ‘Bye-bye, EU’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/pro-brexiters-block-roads-westminster-chanting-bye-bye-eu

Kidchameleon

biko wrote: »

Brexit backers block Westminster roads chanting ‘Bye-bye, EU’

Am I missing something? That article is from 8 months ago??

biko

Yeah, I couldn't find a recent one where Leavers caused mayhem.
Can you help?

Kidchameleon

biko wrote: »

Yeah, I couldn't find a recent one where Leavers caused mayhem.
Can you help?

I wouldn't be surprised if the article is BS propaganda anyway. Leavers were always pretty chilled. We won.

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if the article is BS propaganda anyway. Leavers were always pretty chilled. We won.

It's not a football game.

biko

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

Elections are ALL about winning and losing

weldoninhio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He is PM because of FPTP. About as undemocratic a system as you can get. And Brexit is happening because Johnson and his ilk lied and lied in 2016. But it's all good.

The person with the most votes winning is undemocratic??

Professor Moriarty

weldoninhio wrote: »

The person with the most votes winning is undemocratic??

Nope. Read again and slowly.

Tony EH

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Professor Moriarty

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Exactly. If I'm winning then they're losing and that's all that matters. Cummings is a genius.

MadYaker

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Would explain a lot about the trump movement. Surely the 1930s / 40s was worse though.

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

Loser talk

biko

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8237417/First-past-the-post-voting-system-undemocratic-warns-IPPR.html

The first-past-the-post voting system can produce “undemocratic” results, according to research by a left-leaning think-tank that warns that Labour could be returned to power in future elections despite winning fewer votes than the Conservatives.

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Loser talk

I'm living in Ireland. I haven't lost anything.

biko

So it should be "Professor Muircheartaigh"?

Professor Moriarty

biko wrote: »

So it should be "Professor Muircheartaigh"?

Professor Ó Muircheartaigh.

Loafing Oaf

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Professor Ó Muircheartaigh.

An t-Ollamh Ó Muircheartaigh;)

biko

Mo bhrón múinteoir

Tony EH

MadYaker wrote: »

Would explain a lot about the trump movement. Surely the 1930s / 40s was worse though.

If by "1930s / 40s" you're talking of Germany, those people had very solid reasons for their voting choices. They had just come through the most devastating crash the world has ever seen and the country was in financial chaos where, literally, people were wallpapering their walls with the Mark because it was practically worthless. The political state of the country was disastrous and by the end of the Weimar Republic, the German people were desperate for anyone to try and get things under control. Along comes Hitler and the nazis who promises the sun, moon and stars to everybody.

We all know the rest.

However, that situation is not really comparable with today's, where we see people who are woefully ignorant of even their own party's, or team's, policies. But it simply doesn't matter as all they know is that they have to keep the other lot out, regardless of what their policies are too, even if they're agreeable.

It's absolute madness.

theological

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

This election was fought on a range of policy issues. The one that decided it in the end was what each party planned to do about Brexit.

Was the problem because the electorate chose the wrong option in 2016, or was the problem because parliament was blocking its implementation?

It seems that the majority thought that the problem was that parliament was preventing Brexit from being implemented last Thursday.

20silkcut

Tony EH wrote: »

If by "1930s / 40s" you're talking of Germany, those people had very solid reasons for their voting choices. They had just come through the most devastating crash the world has ever seen and the country was in financial chaos where, literally, people were wallpapering their walls with the Mark because it was practically worthless. The political state of the country was disastrous and by the end of the Weimar Republic, the German people were desperate for anyone to try and get things under control. Along comes Hitler and the nazis who promises the sun, moon and stars to everybody.

We all know the rest.

However, that situation is not really comparable with today's, where we see people who are woefully ignorant of even their own party's, or team's, policies. But it simply doesn't matter as all they know is that they have to keep the other lot out, regardless of what their policies are too, even if they're agreeable.

It's absolute madness.

Britain is a hell of a lot bigger and better a country today than it was in 1973 after 46 years of EU membership.

If you said that to your average Brit today they would not agree or accept that.

It is one of the great contradictions of our time.

A people unhappy with their lot despite a vast improvement and development of their country.

It is why there is so little sympathy for their “plight” outside of Britain.
And we here in Ireland definitely don’t grasp or understand their dissatisfaction.

40 years of media lies is obviously one reason and glorification of their imperial history in their education system has to be another.

MadYaker

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Exactly. If I'm winning then they're losing and that's all that matters. Cummings is a genius.

Did you watch his talk on how they won the referendum in 2016? Very interesting insight into the man. He's abhorrent but very smart and has way more political nous than most actual politicians.

Tony EH

theological wrote: »

This election was fought on a range of policy issues. The one that decided it in the end was what each party planned to do about Brexit.

Well, I am talking about politics in general terms. Not necessarily about the British election which, yes, was primarily about a single issue.

As depressing as that reality is.

theological

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, I am talking about politics in general terms. Not necessarily about the British election which, yes, was primarily about a single issue.

As depressing as that reality is.

This is a reality that was created because of three and a half years of parliament attempting to ignore the referendum result on Brexit.

An election was granted and the people told parliamentarians what they thought. Ignoring the outcome of a referendum is more than likely going to give you a political backlash. Boris Johnson benefited from this backlash.

If there wasn't such opposition to Brexit within parliament the UK could have withdrew from the European Union nearly a year ago and there would be different political conversations.

Professor Moriarty

MadYaker wrote: »

Did you watch his talk on how they won the referendum in 2016? Very interesting insight into the man. He's abhorrent but very smart and has way more political nous than most actual politicians.

Taking Back Control was brilliant. The NHS bus slogan was a downright lie but it also got inside people's minds.