Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

ancapailldorcha

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm Irish and it has nothing got to do with nationalism as far as I am concerned, it is about keeping power in the hands of each individual nation. Britain should be ruled by the British, France by the French etc.

Being Irish doesn't mean you're an expert. Why would you think this? That's just a handy line trotted out by the disaster capitalists for Brexiters to repeat. Similar to the fantasy about signing trade deals or £350 million for the NHS.

Kidchameleon

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Being Irish doesn't mean you're an expert. Why would you think this?

When did I say I was an expert?

Kidchameleon wrote: »

as far as I am concerned, it is about keeping power in the hands of each individual nation.

droidman123

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I understand that some people are against it, but the majority such as myself are for it. It will be a great occasion in my opinion with many positive effects for Ireland, Britain and the world thereafter so personally, I would like a memento. I get that it would not be everybody's cup of tea.





I'm Irish and it has nothing got to do with nationalism as far as I am concerned, it is about keeping power in the hands of each individual nation. Britain should be ruled by the British, France by the French etc.

Britain is not ruled by the british,its ruled by the english

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its unclear from your post what exactly you mean but ill take a stab at it..

A decision like that is up to everyone in Ireland and Britain, not just the people of NI.

Mathematically speaking, 51>49

dont see what it's got to do with people in .. say hammersmith ?

ancapailldorcha

Kidchameleon wrote: »

When did I say I was an expert?

You started your post saying that you're Irish before going on to say that it's nonsense as if being Irish makes you an expert.

Bit cynical

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

What should have been settled? The reason we're here is that it was undefined. We still don't know what the end game is, or what it looks like. This doesn't end in January. This is where it starts. This is why you see Boris and Co again on the offensive and trying to bury the word "Brexit". It'll be a ****show with the UK being the ultimate loser.

To a certain extent the UK opting to leave the EU was always going to be a bit of a leap into the dark. I don't think people who voted to leave expected to know every aspect of the outcome in detail.

declanflynn

Tasfasdf wrote: »

What utter scutter. You wheeling out the propganda that everyone who voted Brexit is a nationalist is just a typical salty labour voter. The people got what they wanted. Ireland should follow suit.

We should never follow britain anywhere, when they leave, it's our opportunity to untie ourselves from them forever and be rid of them, a United Ireland will follow, UK will break up, empire over, it's so exciting

ancapailldorcha

Tasfasdf wrote: »

What utter scutter. You wheeling out the propganda that everyone who voted Brexit is a nationalist is just a typical salty labour voter. The people got what they wanted. Ireland should follow suit.

Can you quote me where I mentioned Labour voters please?

Eric Cartman

Bit cynical wrote: »

To a certain extent the UK opting to leave the EU was always going to be a bit of a leap into the dark. I don't think people who voted to leave expected to know every aspect of the outcome in detail.

Thats it, the interesting thing to see is when they do leave whether they can trade in a fair manor or will other countries make it trickier to punish them for leaving the EU. I think it was a coin toss on britain succeeding on its own merit after leaving but my fear would be the rest of the EU trying to weight those odds against them.

The financial deregulation britain is likely to engage in to maintain prosperity will likely be judged harshly in brussels

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats it, the interesting thing to see is when they do leave whether they can trade in a fair manor or will other countries make it trickier to punish them for leaving the EU. I think it was a coin toss on britain succeeding on its own merit after leaving but my fear would be the rest of the EU trying to weight those odds against them.

The financial deregulation britain is likely to engage in to maintain prosperity will likely be judged harshly in brussels

If there are accusations that the EU is punishing the UK, then by default, there must be some notion that the EU voluntarily negotiates badly just to be nice to third countries, but with the UK, they're actually negotiating properly and trying to achieve the best deal possible for its members.

I don't get it.

Kidchameleon

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You started your post saying that you're Irish before going on to say that it's nonsense as if being Irish makes you an expert.

I stated I was Irish only because some poster (possibly you) claimed I was a British nationalist.

Kidchameleon

declanflynn wrote: »

dont see what it's got to do with people in .. say hammersmith ?

I'm completely lost, what point are you trying to make?

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm completely lost, what point are you trying to make?

ðŸ´

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

If there are accusations that the EU is punishing the UK, then by default, there must be some notion that the EU voluntarily negotiates badly just to be nice to third countries, but with the UK, they're actually negotiating properly and trying to achieve the best deal possible for its members.

Of course the EU will punish the UK, simply by treating it as a competitor. So will everyone else. Stupidity has consequences.

Kidchameleon

droidman123 wrote: »

Britain is not ruled by the british,its ruled by the english

Thats utterly wrong.


I know this is Wikipedia but it explains how things work in Britain pretty concisely:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_the_United_Kingdom


tl:dr - Britain is ruled by the British

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If there are accusations that the EU is punishing the UK, then by default, there must be some notion that the EU voluntarily negotiates badly just to be nice to third countries, but with the UK, they're actually negotiating properly and trying to achieve the best deal possible for its members.

I don't get it.

I dont think its occuring at present but were britain to drastically alter climate targets or tax rates then I could see sanctions ior tarrifs occuring

theological

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

What should have been settled? The reason we're here is that it was undefined. We still don't know what the end game is, or what it looks like. This doesn't end in January. This is where it starts. This is why you see Boris and Co again on the offensive and trying to bury the word "Brexit". It'll be a ****show with the UK being the ultimate loser.

The fact that the UK is leaving the EU should have been settled. Parliament has wasted three and a half years. I agree with you that the implementation detail was up for discussion. Thankfully this parliament isn't hung and the Government will be able to make clear decisions with a clear majority.

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

As for your reasoning....fine, but what you're ultimately getting saying, if we dig a little deeper, is that you're against success. I can't really understand it otherswise. For example, what laws in particular would you like the UK to have more of a say on?

It is your assumption that the UK can't be successful outside of the EU. I don't agree.

I voted remain in 2016. I respect the people's wish to leave. I voted for the Conservatives to break the parliamentary impasse which is paralyzing for the UK.

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

If you buy the net contributor BS then there's actually no reasoning with you. Yes, the UK pays more than what it receives. On the face of it, I think it equates to about 0.7% of GDP. But what happens if the UK leaves on any type of arrangement that removes the alignment with the EU? Multiples times of that are lost.

If it is true it isn't BS by definition. The argument on this topic has been had. The remain side lost. It was lost three and a half years ago. I'm not interested in re-debating it. Brexit is certain. The question is what next?

I think a free trade agreement with the EU along other countries is the best course of travel given this result and it doesn't seem impossible.

My interest is to find the best solution given that the UK is leaving. It is up to this government and subsequent governments to use the increased powers for good.

Beasty

First Up wrote: »

But nothing to do with nationalism.....

I suggest you ask Santa to give you a clue for Christmas because you badly need to get one.

Attack the post not the poster

end of the road

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I understand that some people are against it, but the majority such as myself are for it. It will be a great occasion in my opinion with many positive effects for Ireland, Britain and the world thereafter so personally, I would like a memento. I get that it would not be everybody's cup of tea.

well no, the majority aren't for it.
the majority of those who voted in the referendum on it are for it, but the majority of britain as a whole aren't actually for it ultimately.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm Irish and it has nothing got to do with nationalism as far as I am concerned, it is about keeping power in the hands of each individual nation. Britain should be ruled by the British, France by the French etc.

that is already the case. the french rule the french, the british rule the british, etc.
the british government just don't want to rule and manage britain properly, and just does the usual of blaming everyone else for their own mismanagement when it all goes wrong, exactly the way it was predicted.
a big example, britain could absolutely control immigration, they can deport european citizens after 6 months if they don't have work. they could also have controlled immigration from other nations also, but guess what? they didn't want to bother, they didn't want to employ the staff and resources to do it.

theological wrote: »

You're still arguing against the result after an absolute thumping by the electorate. The public want him to get on and get this done.

It is unfortunate that three and a half years were wasted by people who railed against the people's decision.

At least you understand that Brexit is actually happening now right?

the arguments don't go away because brexit happens to be happening, and because borris and the conservatives got a majority.
in fact, this is just the start of things, and the arguments are still very much live.
parliament had to protect the country, and rightly did what they could to thwart brexit, something they were correct to do.

end of the road

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Northern Ireland is British territory.

it is irish territory under british rule, kept so under the threat of violence if the treaty was not signed.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

With all due respect, these conspiracy theories look even more stupid every day. Leave won, remain lost, fair and square. Its done now so your better off dealing with reality - Britain are leaving.

there are no conspiricy theories.
leave actually didn't win fair and square, because for them to do so, there would have had to have been an actual plan in place fhow things would work or if leave did win, that plan would have had to be communicated to the public, and all information including downsides communicated. this did not happen, and when experts did come out to inform people of downsides, they were dismissed, because apparently people don't want to listen to experts.
also, the whole thing is ultimately not one bit done, brexit on a basic level may be happening, but that is it, the real arguments and real outcomes and issues are just going to begin.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nothing at all, its about smaller government

britain already has the smallest possible government it can get to fit the needs of the government.
small actual government, but a big local government to throw whatever on to so they won't actually have to fund services properly.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its unclear from your post what exactly you mean but ill take a stab at it..

A decision like that is up to everyone in Ireland and Britain, not just the people of NI.

Mathematically speaking, 51>49

actually such a decision is for the people of ireland only, both north and south, people in britain itself don't get a say.
at least that is per my understanding of the good friday agreement.

weldoninhio

8-10 wrote: »

More people voted remain in 2016 than voted Tory and Brexit party combined in 2019

People saying it's settled and done are incredibly naïve. It'll be at least a decade until there's a clean and full break between the UK and the EU and there's a hell of a lot of negotiation and debate in the meantime.

If anyone thinks it's leaving in March, transition over in December and 2021 we've all moved on with our lives never to hear of Brexit again you're sorely wrong. Much more debate and now a real possibility of a new Scottish independence referendum and possible border poll in the coming years

This is the beginning not the end

The delusion is strong in this post.

theological

end of the road wrote: »

the arguments don't go away because brexit happens to be happening, and because borris and the conservatives got a majority.
in fact, this is just the start of things, and the arguments are still very much live.
parliament had to protect the country, and rightly did what they could to thwart brexit, something they were correct to do.

Parliament is elected by the people.

The people voted for Brexit.

Therefore if parliamentarians ignore the people's vote they get their asses handed to them.

Don't you get it?

To allude to your signature this and the hard left nationalisation spree is the reason why Jeremy Corbyn is the prime minister Britain never had. When will the lessons be learned?

First Up

theological wrote:

Parliament is elected by the people.

The people voted for Brexit.

Therefore if parliamentarians ignore the people's vote they get their asses handed to them.

The idea behind representative democracy (the form that works) is that the people elect parliamentarians (who are supposed to know what they are doing) to run the country and make decisions. If the people don't like the outcome, they can elect others.

Cameron abdicated his responsibility by handing as complex an issue as EU membership to an electorate ill-equipped to decide on it.

Its democracy alright but an awful stupid way to run a country. But that's their problem.

ArmaniJeanss

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats it, the interesting thing to see is when they do leave whether they can trade in a fair manor or will other countries make it trickier to punish them for leaving the EU. I think it was a coin toss on britain succeeding on its own merit after leaving but my fear would be the rest of the EU trying to weight those odds against them.

The financial deregulation britain is likely to engage in to maintain prosperity will likely be judged harshly in brussels

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont think its occuring at present but were britain to drastically alter climate targets or tax rates then I could see sanctions ior tarrifs occuring

Your posts imply that it is perfectly fair for Britain to do things to maintain or improve it's own prosperity, even if they negatively effect the EU.
However if the EU does things to maintain or improve it's own prosperity that negatively affect Britain, then this is unfair/punishing them.
Is that your take?

Eric Cartman

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Your posts imply that it is perfectly fair for Britain to do things to maintain or improve it's own prosperity, even if they negatively effect the EU.
However if the EU does things to maintain or improve it's own prosperity that negatively affect Britain, then this is unfair/punishing them.
Is that your take?

as not a giant union of countries it would be more important for britain to do such, its a bit david and goliath.

end of the road

weldoninhio wrote: »

The delusion is strong in this post.

delusion is non-existant in his post.
he is correct in what he stated.

theological wrote: »

Parliament is elected by the people.

The people voted for Brexit.

Therefore if parliamentarians ignore the people's vote they get their asses handed to them.

Don't you get it?

To allude to your signature this and the hard left nationalisation spree is the reason why Jeremy Corbyn is the prime minister Britain never had. When will the lessons be learned?

some of the people voted for brexit, a majority of a tiny minority.
i am well aware that the centrist and modernist policies as practiced in europe that mr corbyn wanted to implement, along with the smear campaign, and idiocy of wanting brexit to be done dispite wanting to remain, are exactly why mr corbyn did not become prime minister.
but tbh, in some ways i am glad he didn't, because at least now borris will get his chance to quite likely screw everything up, and the british public will finally get the type of government they seem to actually want, a bunch of clowns. whatever happens, corbyn won't actually be to blame, all though no doubt he will be blamed, because remember, it's everyone else's fault britain can't or won't govern itself properly.

Nate--IRL--

Eric Cartman wrote: »

as not a giant union of countries it would be more important for britain to do such, its a bit david and goliath.

Survival of the fittest.

Nate

Kidchameleon

Its absolutely freighting that with everything that has gone on, there are STILL people who cannot accept that Britain are leaving. The mind boggles.

cryptocurrency

Can't believe this thread is still going.

Brexit is happening and with the law saying no more extensions and Boris sounding off on everything from non alignment to fishing rights then expect the EU to cave faster then a cheap argos tent by this time next year.

Rememeber the majority on this thread were so out of touch they didn't even see the last few weeks was always gonna be the end result.

I knew it was gonna unfold this way as soon as May was showing herself as weak and useless.

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is still going.

Brexit is happening and with the law saying no more extensions and Boris sounding off on everything from non alignment to fishing rights then expect the EU to cave faster then a cheap argos tent by this time next year.

Rememeber the majority on this thread were so out of touch they didn't even see the last few weeks was always gonna be the end result.

I knew it was gonna unfold this way as soon as May was showing herself as weak and useless.

Your entire pre-November post history says otherwise.