Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

RasTa

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ahh yes, a few rich business people are 52% of the voting population, or are we peddling the working class being hoodwinked by JRM and farage angle on that too ?

Everyone I asked why they voted for brexit is that they wanted the Poles and Romanians, Hungarians etc gone.

Irish, French, Germans are ok. Muslims not.

Eric Cartman

RasTa wrote: »

Everyone I asked why they voted for brexit is that they wanted the Poles and Romanians, Hungarians etc gone.

Irish, French, Germans are ok. Muslims not.

and the other trope, everyones a massive racist...


where are you that youre hanging round with so many racists...

could it not be that perhaps a diverse cross section of people with a selection of grievances (most not rooted in racism or personal market gain) chose to leave the EU.

Kidchameleon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU TOLD THERESA MAY what the terms for re-opening the WA negotiations.

Citation please

SaintLeibowitz

Austerity had a lot to do with it.

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and the other trope, everyones a massive racist...


where are you that youre hanging round with so many racists...

could it not be that perhaps a diverse cross section of people with a selection of grievances (most not rooted in racism or personal market gain) chose to leave the EU.

What grievances other than racism and "personal market gain" did Leave voters have?

RasTa

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and the other trope, everyones a massive racist...


where are you that youre hanging round with so many racists...

could it not be that perhaps a diverse cross section of people with a selection of grievances (most not rooted in racism or personal market gain) chose to leave the EU.

I work with them and like to ask. They aren't racist, just extremely xenophobic if you talk with them about football or the usual rubbish you are accepted.

No it's down to immigration, foolish if you think differently.

greencap

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and the other trope, everyones a massive racist...


where are you that youre hanging round with so many racists...

could it not be that perhaps a diverse cross section of people with a selection of grievances (most not rooted in racism or personal market gain) chose to leave the EU.

As an anti Muslim move isn't brexit a bit of an own-goal?

Commonwealth immigrants will replace any Europeans who leave.

I note that the UK's Indian community was quite pro-brexit. As is priti.... Patel.

I think some are in for a bit of a shock.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What grievances other than racism and "personal market gain" did Leave voters have?

Why did Jeremy Corbyn vote leave?

Was he due to make personal market gains, or is he just a racist?

Professor Moriarty

Aegir wrote: »

Why did Jeremy Corbyn vote leave?

Was he due to make personal market gains, or is he just a racist?

Corbyn voted Remain.

Eric Cartman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What grievances other than racism and "personal market gain" did Leave voters have?

Wanting restrictions on fishing waters to UK vessels, not having to send billions of pounds to the EU every year, PESCO, a dislike of EU restrictions and regulations which business owners (and I don't just mean giant hand wringing PLC types) felt (some laws may not actually have caused issues but the feeling is there), The desire to control their own borders completely (which is not in any way linked to racism despite the claims of some), To have more freedom to control thinks like defence and nuclear deterrents without as much oversight. Change of control in the energy sector and environmental targets and restrictions.

Eric Cartman

greencap wrote: »

As an anti Muslim move isn't brexit a bit of an own-goal?

Commonwealth immigrants will replace any Europeans who leave.

I note that the UK's Indian community was quite pro-brexit. As is priti.... Patel.

I think some are in for a bit of a shock.

yeah, im not too sure why indians tend to be so pro brexit, however only 14% of india identifies as muslim and pakistan isnt included in their visa access so i don't really think its an own goal, they can still close up borders to the vast majority of muslims, but they pretty much always could regardless of brexit....

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Corbyn voted Remain.

So he tells us. Despite being aniti Eu his entire political career.

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Wanting restrictions on fishing waters to UK vessels,

What difference will Brexit make to British fishing? Will it be positive or negative. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?

not having to send billions of pounds to the EU every year,

What will Britain lose from not paying this money in?

PESCO,

Britain is not a member of PESCO.

a dislike of EU restrictions and regulations which business owners (and I don't just mean giant hand wringing PLC types) felt (some laws may not actually have caused issues but the feeling is there)

Feeling eh? Why is the CBI against Johnson's deal? Why have they consistently advocated for a soft or no Brexit? How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?

The desire to control their own borders completely (which is not in any way linked to racism despite the claims of some),

Immigration and national identity were key factors in the Leave vote. How will they control their own borders completely? What has happened to immigration from within the EU in the past three years? What has happened to immigration from outside the EU? What will be the consequence for Britain in placing border controls between it and the EU?

To have more freedom to control thinks like defence and nuclear deterrents without as much oversight.

Please explain how the EU controls Britain's nuclear deterrents. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?

Change of control in the energy sector and environmental targets and restrictions

Johnson and his hard right government ditching environmental targets? You're probably right. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?

Professor Moriarty

Aegir wrote: »

So he tells us. Despite being aniti Eu his entire political career.

Politicians change their minds. He says he voted Remain. That's all.

RasTa

Indians are way more racist then the Brits. That patel one is pure scum.

Eric Cartman

RasTa wrote: »

Indians are way more racist then the Brits. That patel one is pure scum.

seems a bit....racist , please do explain why she's 'scum'

Professor Moriarty

RasTa wrote: »

Indians are way more racist then the Brits. That patel one is pure scum.

Best satire I've seen in a long time.

Eric Cartman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What difference will Brexit make to British fishing? Will it be positive or negative. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?



What will Britain lose from not paying this money in?



Britain is not a member of PESCO.



Feeling eh? Why is the CBI against Johnson's deal? Why have they consistently advocated for a soft or no Brexit? How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?



Immigration and national identity were key factors in the Leave vote. How will they control their own borders completely? What has happened to immigration from within the EU in the past three years? What has happened to immigration from outside the EU? What will be the consequence for Britain in placing border controls between it and the EU?



Please explain how the EU controls Britain's nuclear deterrents. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?



Johnson and his hard right government ditching environmental targets? You're probably right. How many Leave voters prioritised this issue over others?

do you genuinely believe the british conservative party are anything even close to 'hard right'


For short range fishing, small operators and those currently impacted by super trawlors or large operators hitting quotas it will be a good thing, theres still a question mark hanging over the export side of the business but those answers will come in time

it depends on if you view what it gets as worth the money, I think access to the SM and CU is inherrintly a good thing, but many brits have not shared this view and would rather keep the money closer to home.

Activation of PESCO was after the brexit referendum , but fears around joining would have been an issue for people who voted to leave. the talk of an "EU Army" has been around for a long time.

CBI prevail to their members, brexit was always going to impact export business , the only issue is for how long and in what way.

RasTa

Eric Cartman wrote: »

seems a bit....racist , please do explain why she's 'scum'

Starve the Irish, private meetings with Israel on top of using aid money for bankers.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Best satire I've seen in a long time.

Yeah caste system normal in 2020. You should see the reports on what they think of black/African people.

Also see what happens if a Muslim try's to marry a sikh. Nevermind the citizenship controversy that's going on at the moment.

I lived there for 2 years, mental place.

SantaCruz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

This is where you have shown you don't understand it at all. The numbers game. In 30 years time the 1.4 billion in India will have how many of them middle class and above...even if it was just a few hundred million then they would be more then Europe..Throw the rest of Asia and South America into the mix, and the figures are even more startling.

I'm running out of sighs and facepalms for you.

You've just discovered the principle of countries moving up the value chain, and emerging markets?

And yet you still don't understand the irrelevance to the wealthiest parts of the world if the rest of the planet is finally making up lost ground? I'm sure the Swiss were sh!tting bricks in the 1990s when we finally started catching up on them because...uh...because...

Remarkable.

SantaCruz

Deleted User wrote: »

In the cases I've heard, where a company has moved part or all it's operational offices, they haven't come to Ireland because it's too expensive for both the setting up and the effects on the staff. Instead, they've found it cheaper to sponsor the move to Poland or another Eastern European country as the range of English speakers is high, the costs of living/operating are low, and they remain in the EU.

The idea of loads of companies would come to Ireland is a pipe dream as a result of Brexit. 20 years ago, sure... now? no.

I currently work for a company that established EMEA HQ in Irish city - moved from London due to Brexit. Now 100 people in highly-paid roles there. We'll probably scale 1.5X p/a for the next 5 years. And I guarantee you've never heard of us.

Just one example.

SantaCruz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Let's not compete, let's stick up ridiculous barriers. "hey vietnam, unless you roll out a national gender neatural toilet policy we will block deals and indonesia, you need to be more woke or we are taking our ball home"

Thanks for that great insight, Mr. Burgundy.

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

do you genuinely believe the british conservative party are anything even close to 'hard right'

I said government not Tory party. Yes. They have moved from their centre right/One Nation position. A glance at Johnson's front bench will demonstrate this. I use the term 'hard right' because far right would be an exaggeration. For now.

For short range fishing, small operators and those currently impacted by super trawlors or large operators hitting quotas it will be a good thing, theres still a question mark hanging over the export side of the business but those answers will come in time

Well, no. Firstly, fishing represents 0.5% of Britain's GDP - it was used by Farage to whip up anti EU fervour. Anyway, much of English fishing is done in Irish, Norwegian and French waters. How iwll that look after Brexit? Secondly, the EU will restrict Britain's new non-EU quotas as much as possible. Thirdly, Britain exports more fish to the EU than it imports - expect high tariffs.Fourthly, because of EU-Norwegian fishing links, Britain could find their cod fishing hammered. Fifthly, does Britain have the capacity to patrol its waters?

it depends on if you view what it gets as worth the money, I think access to the SM and CU is inherrintly a good thing, but many brits have not shared this view and would rather keep the money closer to home.

So you agree that the money they are/were paying is overall a good thing? Agreed.

Activation of PESCO was after the brexit referendum , but fears around joining would have been an issue for people who voted to leave. the talk of an "EU Army" has been around for a long time.

They're not members so it's an irrelevance.

CBI prevail to their members, brexit was always going to impact export business , the only issue is for how long and in what way

The CBI has been implacably against anything other than the softest of Brexits.

Spanish Eyes

Outside the Shires, the UK is quite a bleak place apart from a few pockets of affluence. I do realise there is poverty in the Shires/SE but it is basically the region from which Brexit will be designed and signed off for.

Gawd help those outside of that bubble who voted Tory (or loaned their vote) in order to see some improvement in their lifestyles. I know it was Hobson's Choice, either a Communist momentum run idealistic Labour or the Tory toffs.

I am just musing here, as I too am interested to see how this all pans out.

Deal on time and on budget?
Further extension?
No Deal and crash out?
Fudge and bluster?

I hope those who voted for Brexit will be alive to see the benefits, because I really do think many in the UK need hope for the future. Best of luck to them.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you Irish or British?

English apparently with a habit of using Americanisms like soy boys etc.

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Wanting restrictions on fishing waters to UK vessels, not having to send billions of pounds to the EU every year, PESCO, a dislike of EU restrictions and regulations which business owners (and I don't just mean giant hand wringing PLC types) felt (some laws may not actually have caused issues but the feeling is there), The desire to control their own borders completely (which is not in any way linked to racism despite the claims of some), To have more freedom to control thinks like defence and nuclear deterrents without as much oversight. Change of control in the energy sector and environmental targets and restrictions.

britain could control it's borders within the EU, it chose not to do so because it couldn't be bothered, and it didn't want to pay for the resources to do it. i see no reason why that won't change going forward.
there is no oversight from the EU on britain's nuclear non-deterrentwhich will never be used because nobody is interested in attacking a declining nation.

Eric Cartman

end of the road wrote: »

britain could control it's borders within the EU, it chose not to do so because it couldn't be bothered, and it didn't want to pay for the resources to do it. i see no reason why that won't change going forward.
there is no oversight from the EU on britain's nuclear non-deterrentwhich will never be used because nobody is interested in attacking a declining nation.

Im aware britain could control its borders, my original post explained why brexiteers voted for brexit beyond the stereotypes of racism and market gains. Brexit really has exposed how special britains relationship with the EU was to begin with and all the extra easements etc.. that they had that people were determined brexit would deliver.

Tony EH

Aegir wrote: »

So he tells us. Despite being aniti Eu his entire political career.

One can understand the faults of the EU and yet also understand the benefits belonging to the EU group too.

It isn't binary.

A situation that a lot of the low power "thinkers" continually fail to grasp.

Bit cynical

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 30 parliaments, many of which are far removed from the channel, are going to sign off on a deal that is in the UK's favour..

If has nothing to do with Johnson the gambler. He has sidestepped parliament on his end of the deal but has to create something that dozens of others have to pass on the first shot because there's no extension. How much testosterone do you think he has. Has he the balls to risk it all for one small item a faraway country might vote No because of.

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

It will be certainly interesting. I think the likelihood of success depends on the UK Government holding firm to the end of year deadline for negotiations.

Kidchameleon

European aid to be cut by 50% to 3.8bn whilst defence r&d to be increased to 13bn. The EU commissions reason is that the budget needs to be "tightened up" post Brexit. I thought the EU didnt need Britain? I thought they would not notice the Brits were gone?????

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/29/eu-accused-of-seeking-to-cut-funds-for-poor-in-post-brexit-cost-savings

Absolute SCUMMY move on the part of the EU if true... Making the blocks poorest people pay for increased militarization by starving them. But yes, they care about EU citizens dont they...