Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Boredstiff666

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When I said "Brexiter", I meant the people actively arguing for it and continually defending it as opposed to people who just bought into the propaganda/saw opportunities for themselves and their communities/just wanted to flip off the austerity government of the day.

The poor people who want it have already been forgotten about in my opinion. We can see that in the completely abandonment of the pretence that Brexit will benefit the UK. Now, it's some sort of perverse national duty to be done as quickly as possible. More ripping off a plaster than fundamentally changing things for the better.

So where did you obtain this in depth info? Are you an actual working class Brit living in darkest west midlands of northern deprived cess pitt?

Your opinion is formed on what knowledge, Kay Burley or Huddersfield working mans club?

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Hey, if the UK can blame the EU for all its decades of wor, surely the EU can use the UK as a scapegoat for the odd thing or two, no?

It takes huge sums and decades to build and army, at the very earliest. The EU don't have this infrastructure. The US/UK would not sell the EU decent tech unless they have them in their pocket like the saudis.

The EU will have a choice between buying legacy tech from the US/UK or Russian and China.

Going to the later would put them in the crosshairs and on the naughty list.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

and EU army will have to remain in the pocket of the US/UK/Nato or it will be dismatled by them. The nations that would make up a EU army are just tin pot nations and will not be allowed to ever be an army of note with an opinion that differs from the big western powers.

Ah jaysus. You must be just taking the piss at this stage.

So you think that if there is an EU army that Nato will "dismatle" them. And that any European army will be in the pocket of the UK. (That being the same UK that had to go running to Europe for backup when some Russians visited the cathederal in Salisbury)

Here is your homework for today. Look up a list of countries in NATO. Then look up a list of countries in the EU (it would have been advisable to have done the latter before starting to contribute to the thread back in the day). Now see if there is any crossover.

Germany at EU army meeting: "Let's set up an EU army"
Germany at NATO meeting: "What! Let's crush those EU army bastards"

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I never said they should not try. just don't be surprised if it is never allowed to become more then some token army.

That's not a very valid argument against it.. You bemoan the EU doing nothing from a position of strength one minute and then say the EU shouldn't even try the next minute.

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah jaysus. You must be just taking the piss at this stage.

So you think that if there is an EU army that Nato will "dismatle" them. And that any European army will be in the pocket of the UK. (That being the same UK that had to go running to Europe for backup when some Russians visited the cathederal in Salisbury)

Here is your homework for today. Look up a list of countries in NATO. Then look up a list of countries in the EU (it would have been advisable to have done the latter before starting to contribute to the thread back in the day). Now see if there is any crossover.

Germany at EU army meeting: "Let's set up an EU army"
Germany at NATO meeting: "What! Let's crush those EU army bastards"

haha..what did they run to the EU for? CCTV footage?

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah jaysus. You must be just taking the piss at this stage.

So you think that if there is an EU army that Nato will "dismatle" them. And that any European army will be in the pocket of the UK. (That being the same UK that had to go running to Europe for backup when some Russians visited the cathederal in Salisbury)

Here is your homework for today. Look up a list of countries in NATO. Then look up a list of countries in the EU (it would have been advisable to have done the latter before starting to contribute to the thread back in the day). Now see if there is any crossover.

Germany at EU army meeting: "Let's set up an EU army"
Germany at NATO meeting: "What! Let's crush those EU army bastards"

How do you keeping believing in an institution that never does anything.

Germany at the nato by the way, is there making up numbers.

joseywhales

Does the great royal navy have an operational aircraft carrier yet?

Too many femboys perhaps.

I think even the cursed french have better capabilities at this stage but sure at least UK leadership has a backbone unlike the EU who allowed changes to the WA. It's a pity that Boris is dead in a ditch but at least he is not a femboy.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

How do you keeping believing in an institution that never does anything.

Germany at the nato by the way, is there making up numbers.

Numbers? The Royal Navy can’t even crew out what few, aging vessels they have!
Numbers indeed!!!

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

How do you keeping believing in an institution that never does anything.

In the last 30 minutes, you have said the EU shouldn't create its own army. That would constitute doing something, but you're against it.

I really don't know crypto. Your posts are all over the shop. It's like you've fallen into the trap of arguing against everything with little thought put into the consistency of your opinions. It kills the legitimacy of other arguments you make.

"The EU does nothing from a show of strength."
"The EU shouldn't create its own army because the US and the UK would dismantle it."
"How can you you support something that never does anything."

Surely you should respect the EU if it created an army that would put it on a level playing field. But you don't because someone else you generally disagree with thinks it would be fine.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

In the last 30 minutes, you have said the EU shouldn't create its own army. That would constitute doing something, but you're against it.

I really don't know crypto. Your posts are all over the shop. It's like you've fallen into the trap of arguing against everything with little thought put into the consistency of your opinions. It kills the legitimacy of other arguments you make.

"The EU does nothing from a show of strength."
"The EU shouldn't create its own army because the US and the UK would dismantle it."
"How can you you support something that never does anything."

Surely you should respect the EU if it created an army that would put it on a level playing field. But you don't because someone else you generally disagree with thinks it would be fine.

they can do what they like but to think by creating an army is what it takes to have a level playing field then you know very little about how this all works

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Numbers? The Royal Navy can’t even crew out what few, aging vessels they have!
Numbers indeed!!!

Yet are updating all the fleet and building new aircraft carriers. Have got new F35Bs and will now green light the tridient upgrades.

come again, try harder

cryptocurrency

joseywhales wrote: »

Does the great royal navy have an operational aircraft carrier yet?

Too many femboys perhaps.

I think even the cursed french have better capabilities at this stage but sure at least UK leadership has a backbone unlike the EU who allowed changes to the WA. It's a pity that Boris is dead in a ditch but at least he is not a femboy.

HMS Queen Elizabeth ...been out in the pacific getting a run out and i know the petty officer who did the first bomb head.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Yet are updating all the fleet and building new aircraft carriers. Have got new F35Bs and will now green light the tridient upgrades.

come again, try harder

Serious question for you. Seeing as how you have veered towards military.

In your opinion, if there was a global war (military or trade war), UK vs everyone else combined, do you personally think that the UK would win? Would they win easily?

Boredstiff666

joseywhales wrote: »

Does the great royal navy have an operational aircraft carrier yet?

Too many femboys perhaps.

Very bitchy towards our nearest neighbor. But what has Ireland got? I suppose we could muster up an old rusty fishing trawler and bang some light machine guns on it.

When you run around the playground kicking the boys in the ankles and pulling the pig tails on the girls. Then running off laughing in the belief that your big friend will give anybody who hits you good kicking.

It never ends well.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Yet are updating all the fleet and building new aircraft carriers. Have got new F35Bs and will now green light the tridient upgrades.

come again, try harder

Fleet is not the primary issue.

Staffing is.

Tell me this - if the UK are doing a complete overhaul, how long will that take?
What would the equivalent time required for an existing union to increase its fleethold?

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

they can do what they like but to think by creating an army is what it takes to have a level playing field then you know very little about how this all works

I think the EU accounting for the current climate within the UK and the US would be a smart thing to do. It won't put them on a level playing field as such, but it would improve its abilities against say Russian encroachment in decades to come.

If the UK and the US become more insular, it seems strategically wise to try. I don't buy your argument that it shouldn't happen because it would be "dismantled". You're advocating a US-UK led military dominance well into the 21st century and that is something I'm less a fan of than an EU army.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Fleet is not the primary issue.

Staffing is.

Tell me this - if the UK are doing a complete overhaul, how long will that take?
What would the equivalent time required for an existing union to increase its fleethold?

The time to upgrade and commission a fleet is a lot faster then building one from scratch and expect all gep political rivals to sit on their hands and watch this militarisation with no reaction.

It's very hard to join in and win a marathon when all the major seasoned runners have had a 18 mile start.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the EU accounting for the current climate within the UK and the US would be a smart thing to do. It won't put them on a level playing field as such, but it would improve its abilities against say Russian encroachment in decades to come.

If the UK and the US become more insular, it seems strategically wise to try. I don't buy your argument that it shouldn't happen because it would be "dismantled". You're advocating a US-UK led military dominance well into the 21st century and that is something I'm less a fan of than an EU army.

Doesn't matter if you are less of a fan or not. For all of the remainder of your life, your childrens, grandkids, great grand kids, great great grand kids, etc.. this will be the case.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The time to upgrade and commission a fleet is a lot faster then building one from scratch and expect all gep political rivals to sit on their hands and watch this militarisation with no reaction.

It's very hard to join in and win a marathon when all the major seasoned runners have had a 18 mile start.

Funny that.

Same thought process could apply to building a portfolio of trade deals from scratch...

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Funny that.

Same thought process could apply to building a portfolio of trade deals from scratch...

Unlike the decades long journey for military tech, we are gonna see about the trade deals very very soon, so we won't have to wait to see whos right.

It will be me, and it will be fine.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Unlike the decades long journey for military tech, we are gonna see about the trade deals very very soon, so we won't have to wait to see whos right.

It will be me, and it will be fine.

You’re hilarious!

KildareP

KildareP wrote: »

Funny that.

Same thought process could apply to building a portfolio of trade deals from scratch...

Beat me to it.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Fleet is not the primary issue.

Staffing is.

Tell me this - if the UK are doing a complete overhaul, how long will that take?
What would the equivalent time required for an existing union to increase its fleethold?

I can see a time when more and more jobs are automated, including many in the navy, that applications will not be an issue. that time is soon

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Unlike the decades long journey for military tech, we are gonna see about the trade deals very very soon, so we won't have to wait to see whos right.

It will be me, and it will be fine.

How soon is very very soon? The UK only has leverage over the EU.. The rest I imagine with take years and years.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I can see a time when more and more jobs are automated, including many in the navy, that applications will not be an issue. that time is soon

Great. So the EU has a head start with no legacy tech to migrate across.

Boredstiff666

Well if I was starting my own business for the first time which I have done a few times before. i would be cheaper and better than my competitors.

In the case of the UK it is very easy to undercut competitors because all they have to do is reduce prices and one way without affecting business but actually causing a boom is to reduce or abolish VAT.

Instantly UK goods become 25% cheaper to other VAT countries which just happen to be EU countries.

The problems that would cause in the first week of doing this are monumental...........but not to the UK. The UK would suffer a partial revenue loss partly offset by the massive boom in consumer spending and exports to EU countries as the smuggling routes open up.

At the same time Leo or the next one instantly try's to form a hard border with NI and every soldier and members of their families link arms in an attempt to stop cross border shopping but are trampled to death in the stampede.

France orders its Navy to intercept all French bound ships entering their waters searching for UK goods as does Spain and Portugal.

Meanwhile EU businesses are kicking down the doors of Brussels to get VAT abolished in order to be on a level footing as the EU retail businesses start to suffer with a huge knock on effect.

Well I would do something like that for starters anyway........Business is war!

ancapailldorcha

KildareP wrote: »

Funny that.

Same thought process could apply to building a portfolio of trade deals from scratch...

I know someone who works in international trade and when you consider that countries like the Ukraine are agitating for a renegotiation then the idea that glorious buccaneering global Britain will be cutting advantageous trade deals with the US, India and China is just pure fantasy.

joseywhales

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Very bitchy towards our nearest neighbor. But what has Ireland got? I suppose we could muster up an old rusty fishing trawler and bang some light machine guns on it.

When you run around the playground kicking the boys in the ankles and pulling the pig tails on the girls. Then running off laughing in the belief that your big friend will give anybody who hits you good kicking.

It never ends well.

I was merely using a poster's own derogatory slang toward the eu to describe the uk. A bit of tit for tat, since the conversation has deteriorated to mere conjecture and bluster.

I agree Ireland has nothing militarily, which I am pretty happy about, why bother, the amount of money we would need to spend to create adequate defenses against a modern first world military we basically do not have, nor the numbers.

I am not sure how to interpret the passive aggressive playground analogy, do you suggest we not dare give back talk to the British because they have a bigger gun?
Lol
I do not give reverance to power.


My actual view point is that I'm indifferent to the UK in so far as how they choose to govern themselves. I want to get as decoupled as possible from what appears to be a socially unstable country. Obviously they are our closest neighbour and a major market for us, so we must endeavour to put up with them.

Boredstiff666

joseywhales wrote: »

I was merely using a poster's own derogatory slang toward the eu to describe the uk. A bit of tit for tat, since the conversation has deteriorated to mere conjecture and bluster.

I agree Ireland has nothing militarily, which I am pretty happy about, why bother, the amount of money we would need to spend to create adequate defenses against a modern first world military we basically do not have, nor the numbers.

I am not sure how to interpret the passive aggressive playground analogy, do you suggest we not dare give back talk to the British because they have a bigger gun?
Lol
I do not give reverance to power.


My actual view point is that I'm indifferent to the UK in so far as how they choose to govern themselves. I want to get as decoupled as possible from what appears to be a socially unstable country. Obviously they are our closest neighbour and a major market for us, so we must endeavour to put up with them.

No nothing at all like that but we do have a leader and sidekick who spent all last year stirring up ****e and appearing on Brit TV every week telling the UK people that they must do as they say etc etc etc.

It didnt go down well is an understatement and our big brother the EU will just dump us as we are no use to them now and we have to become subservient again as before instead of eating at the big table.

cryptocurrency

joseywhales wrote: »

I was merely using a poster's own derogatory slang toward the eu to describe the uk. A bit of tit for tat, since the conversation has deteriorated to mere conjecture and bluster.

I agree Ireland has nothing militarily, which I am pretty happy about, why bother, the amount of money we would need to spend to create adequate defenses against a modern first world military we basically do not have, nor the numbers.

I am not sure how to interpret the passive aggressive playground analogy, do you suggest we not dare give back talk to the British because they have a bigger gun?
Lol
I do not give reverance to power.


My actual view point is that I'm indifferent to the UK in so far as how they choose to govern themselves. I want to get as decoupled as possible from what appears to be a socially unstable country. Obviously they are our closest neighbour and a major market for us, so we must endeavour to put up with them.

Nobody is looking for Ireland to have a super military but at least a few jets to police air space. Austria have a number of them, even slovakia