Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Boredstiff666

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Nobody is looking for Ireland to have a super military but at least a few jets to police air space. Austria have a number of them, even slovakia

I thought the south and west coasts have always been ideal for navel bases as some places up north as well.

joseywhales

As soon as we commission a few extra carriages for the dart and build a children's hospital, we will get right on that naval base.

It's unrealistic.

seamus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

It didnt go down well is an understatement and our big brother the EU will just dump us as we are no use to them now and we have to become subservient again as before instead of eating at the big table.

Yeah, the Brexiteers have been banging on about how the EU would shaft Ireland for 3.5 years now and it still hasn't happened. If anything, the EU's support for Ireland has become more and more entrenched as the UK have continued attempting to attack the relationship and throw Ireland under the bus.

How Ireland's solidarity with the EU, and the EU's solidarity with Ireland has "gone down" in the UK is not our problem. It's time for the UK to accept that it is not the world player that it thinks it is, and it's time to take what's on the table or walk away. They have spent all their bargaining chips, exhausted all their options.

cryptocurrency

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, the Brexiteers have been banging on about how the EU would shaft Ireland for 3.5 years now and it still hasn't happened. If anything, the EU's support for Ireland has become more and more entrenched as the UK have continued attempting to attack the relationship and throw Ireland under the bus.

How Ireland's solidarity with the EU, and the EU's solidarity with Ireland has "gone down" in the UK is not our problem. It's time for the UK to accept that it is not the world player that it thinks it is, and it's time to take what's on the table or walk away. They have spent all their bargaining chips, exhausted all their options.

I think the min the Tories dumped May it was clear it was the player it thought it was as the EU folded like a cheap tent

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No nothing at all like that but we do have a leader and sidekick who spent all last year stirring up ****e and appearing on Brit TV every week telling the UK people that they must do as they say etc etc etc.

It didnt go down well is an understatement and our big brother the EU will just dump us as we are no use to them now and we have to become subservient again as before instead of eating at the big table.

This just reads like Northern Ireland and the DUP if you change EU to UK.

Boredstiff666

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, the Brexiteers have been banging on about how the EU would shaft Ireland for 3.5 years now and it still hasn't happened. If anything, the EU's support for Ireland has become more and more entrenched as the UK have continued attempting to attack the relationship and throw Ireland under the bus.

How Ireland's solidarity with the EU, and the EU's solidarity with Ireland has "gone down" in the UK is not our problem. It's time for the UK to accept that it is not the world player that it thinks it is, and it's time to take what's on the table or walk away. They have spent all their bargaining chips, exhausted all their options.

I do not refer to that at all but what happens when Brexit happens.

Anyway a couple of months and we will find out.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think the min the Tories dumped May it was clear it was the player it thought it was as the EU folded like a cheap tent

Well if the EU getting what it wanted all along and the Tories rolling back on two “red lines” is still perceived as a win to you (any indeed many others) then it makes the EU negotiating team even more successful.

Many could only dream getting everything they want in a deal whilst forcing the other side to back down on their wants and the other side still receiving this as a win for them.

KildareP

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well if I was starting my own business for the first time which I have done a few times before. i would be cheaper and better than my competitors.

In the case of the UK it is very easy to undercut competitors because all they have to do is reduce prices and one way without affecting business but actually causing a boom is to reduce or abolish VAT.

Instantly UK goods become 25% cheaper to other VAT countries which just happen to be EU countries.

The problems that would cause in the first week of doing this are monumental...........but not to the UK. The UK would suffer a partial revenue loss partly offset by the massive boom in consumer spending and exports to EU countries as the smuggling routes open up.

At the same time Leo or the next one instantly try's to form a hard border with NI and every soldier and members of their families link arms in an attempt to stop cross border shopping but are trampled to death in the stampede.

France orders its Navy to intercept all French bound ships entering their waters searching for UK goods as does Spain and Portugal.

Meanwhile EU businesses are kicking down the doors of Brussels to get VAT abolished in order to be on a level footing as the EU retail businesses start to suffer with a huge knock on effect.

Well I would do something like that for starters anyway........Business is war!

Two major flaws:
(1) In case of membership or a FTA:
Above a certain turnover you must pay be VAT registered, or file VAT returns, in the country the sale is completed in. So I’d pay ROI VAT on your product, someone in France pays French VAT. No VAT saving benefit under your plan.

(2) In case of no FTA:
You will be hit with tariffs, duties and the administrative overhead of importing into the EU and your buyer still gets hit with VAT on top. In fact, if you don’t want any EU presence then it’s your buyer gets hit with that burden at the point of entry or their package gets destroyed.

It put an abrupt stop to all those postal CD companies registered in Jersey and the Isle of Man when buyers started getting knocks on their door from An Post looking for the import duty, VAT and a nice An Post handling fee to be paid before they would get their package handed over.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Well if the EU getting what it wanted all along and the Tories rolling back on two “red lines” is still perceived as a win to you (any indeed many others) then it makes the EU negotiating team even more successful.

Many could only dream getting everything they want in a deal whilst forcing the other side to back down on their wants and the other side still receiving this as a win for them.

If you keep saying it then it doesn't suddenly become true. You have
read the privious times it has been pointed out to you and you still choose to ignore it.

WA reopened. No deal back on the table. Transition can not be extended law.

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...This is very very very different to what you are implying.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Two major flaws:
(1) In case of membership or a FTA:
Above a certain turnover you must pay be VAT registered, or file VAT returns, in the country the sale is completed in. So I’d pay ROI VAT on your product, someone in France pays French VAT. No VAT saving benefit under your plan.

(2) In case of no FTA:
You will be hit with tariffs, duties and the administrative overhead of importing into the EU and your buyer still gets hit with VAT on top. In fact, if you don’t want any EU presence then it’s your buyer gets hit with that burden at the point of entry or their package gets destroyed.

It put an abrupt stop to all those postal CD companies registered in Jersey and the Isle of Man when buyers started getting knocks on their door from An Post looking for the import duty, VAT and a nice An Post handling fee to be paid before they would get their package handed over.

sure buddy

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If you keep saying it then it doesn't suddenly become true.

You should take your own advice.

Still no evidence the UK will do well out of Brexit, 3 years after they voted to leave.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If you keep saying it then it doesn't suddenly become true. You have
read the privious times it has been pointed out to you and you still choose to ignore it.

WA reopened. No deal back on the table. Transition can not be extended law.

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...This is very very very different to what you are implying.

Who caused the WA to be revisited?
The EU - for the craic of it like
The UK - because they brought something different to the table

cryptocurrency

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I do not refer to that at all but what happens when Brexit happens.

Anyway a couple of months and we will find out.

Yep and the same lads will bang on about a bus, 350m a week, russians, ditchs, 31st of October and some claims it's what they wanted all along. When the reality is so different.

Will be fine. I actually picture some of these lads actually foaming at the mouth when they post. The anti brit , pro EU, rage building up inside as they secretly realise they backed a 3 legged donkey in the derby.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

Who caused the WA to be revisited?
The EU - for the craic of it like
The UK - because they brought something different to the table

Or someone different brought it to the table. The WA now, even with the irish sea checks is very different to the backstop. And temp also.

The Brits down't want the north anyway, who would.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

sure buddy

For all your future posts I shall just refer you back to your response here

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No nothing at all like that but we do have a leader and sidekick who spent all last year stirring up ****e and appearing on Brit TV every week telling the UK people that they must do as they say etc etc etc.

It didnt go down well is an understatement and our big brother the EU will just dump us as we are no use to them now and we have to become subservient again as before instead of eating at the big table.

The UK wanted to have their cake and eat it, and the Irish government were unwilling to bend over and give it to them. If that did not go down well, that is more their problem than ours.

Sometimes reality is unpleasant, it is not our job to sweaten the pill for the UK.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Or someone different brought it to the table. The WA now, even with the irish sea checks is very different to the backstop. And temp also.

The Brits down't want the north anyway, who would.

You do not negotiate with the person you negotiate with the government.

By your logic, Article 50 has been revoked because Johnson didn’t trigger it and May is now gone and Johnson is now in charge.

Start again lads!

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Or someone different brought it to the table. The WA now, even with the irish sea checks is very different to the backstop. And temp also.

The Brits down't want the north anyway, who would.

And much better for Ireland and the EU than UK.

You realise NI is now cut off from most of the benefits of Brexit. Open borders, no customs, and free immigration is happening to 1/4 of the UK. Scotland wants the same.

They may rebuild Hadrian's Wall as a checkpoint :pac:

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think the min the Tories dumped May it was clear it was the player it thought it was as the EU folded like a cheap tent

The EU folded by allowing Johnson take a worse deal for the UK than the one that had been on offer? Remember when he told the DUP there would never be a border in the Irish sea, remember when May said no PM could ever accept such a deal. To me it looks like Johnson folded fairly quickly when reality hit him full in the face.

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If you keep saying it then it doesn't suddenly become true. You have
read the privious times it has been pointed out to you and you still choose to ignore it.

WA reopened. No deal back on the table. Transition can not be extended law.

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...This is very very very different to what you are implying.

Talk about clutching at straws, the WA was indeed reopend, but when you see what changes were made only a fool could count it as a win for the UK. Say what you like about the DUP, but they have at least been consistant in their position and they know what a stab in the back looks like when they see it.

As for the no extension law, the UK could just choose not to request an extension, there was never any need for such a law. Passing a no-extension law is a bit like a drunk in a pub asking his friends to "hold me back" from a fight. It's transparent and rather patethic posturing.

We have seen the reality of the UK position time and again. The UK did not have to agree the WA, they could have left with no deal, or asked for the transition to be removed from the WA before agreeing it. Both May and Johnson folded when to came down to it. It seems to me that the UK has shown its hand time and again and for all the posturing, it falls into line when push comes to shove.

The clock is ticking down for sure, but it is the UK that is under pressure as a result. Lets just see how many wonderful trade deals the UK has secured by the summer and if Johnson has the stomach when it comes to it to be the PM that wrecked the British economey, or will he yet again find a way to ease himself off the hook.

Boredstiff666

Imreoir2 wrote: »

The UK wanted to have their cake and eat it, and the Irish government were unwilling to bend over and give it to them. If that did not go down well, that is more their problem than ours.

Sometimes reality is unpleasant, it is not our job to sweaten the pill for the UK.

Thats not what happened but your words I feel are going to be what happens to us in a few months.

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Thats not what happened but your words I feel are going to be what happens to us in a few months.

Such predictions have been doing the rounds for years, why are you correct now when others peddling such predictions were wrong?

The UK is in a fundementally weak position. Those in weak positions don't come out on top in international agreements. A lot of countries are going to take advantage of the UKs weakness and there is little that they can do about it. The next chapter of the UKs history after Brext will probably be a long and dificult process of trying to escape from the agreements that they will be forced to accept over the next few years.

cryptocurrency

Padre_Pio wrote: »

And much better for Ireland and the EU than UK.

You realise NI is now cut off from most of the benefits of Brexit. Open borders, no customs, and free immigration is happening to 1/4 of the UK. Scotland wants the same.

They may rebuild Hadrian's Wall as a checkpoint :pac:

You really are living a fantasy. "a backstop with an exit mechanism is not a backstop"

May's keept Northern Ireland aligned to the European Union’s Custom Union and Single Market and meant the UK couldn’t avail of future trade deals and gave Northern Ireland no possibility of enjoying the advantages of brexit due to level playing field fears raised in Brussels (Theresa May rejected a Northern Ireland-only backstop in favour of a UK-wide one in order to protect ‘the integrity of the union’).
Under the new agreement, the backstop has been abolished.

This deal essentially has completely removed the backstop in favour of giving Northern Ireland a say on a time-limited arrangement.

This will only change if it is voted on in Stormont.

Northern Ireland remains aligned to the EU’s Custom Union for a period at it's consent, but will remain in the United Kingdom’s custom territory, meaning that all future trade deals struck that Northern Ireland can avail of them.

This means that if goods are sent from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, no tariffs apply. If goods are sent from Great Britain through Northern Ireland to Ireland, tariffs will apply, and are monitored at ports and airports to allow the border to remain open. Logical.

For goods sent from Ireland to Northern Ireland, there would be no tariffs due to the border being open, and for goods travelling from Ireland through Northern Ireland to Great Britain, there will be tariffs.

The “level-playing field” provision was another sticking point for UK negotiators. This has now been removed from the WA dispite constant reference that it is set in stone.

So Boris Johnson’s deal sees the entirety of the UK free to sign trade deals.

The UK will no longer “consider aligning with union rules in relevant areas”, as was stated in Theresa May’s rejected deal.

Good for the EU you say, it's what they wanted you say. Get off the stage with that, you are making me belly laugh.

UK is celebrating leaving while the EU begs, pleads and interferes in trying to get the UK not too.

Not only is the EU the loser here, it was beating of savage poportion that the ref stopped the fight.

cryptocurrency

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Such predictions have been doing the rounds for years, why are you correct now when others peddling such predictions were wrong?

The UK is in a fundementally weak position. Those in weak positions don't come out on top in international agreements. A lot of countries are going to take advantage of the UKs weakness and there is little that they can do about it. The next chapter of the UKs history after Brext will probably be a long and dificult process of trying to escape from the agreements that they will be forced to accept over the next few years.

Did you once work as the Iraqi information minister?

alastair

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK is celebrating leaving while the EU begs, pleads and interferes in trying to get the UK not too.

A notion at odds with the facts. But this isn’t unfamiliar territory for you, is it? 😂

cryptocurrency

alastair wrote: »

A notion at odds with the facts. But this isn’t unfamiliar territory for you, is it? 😂

UK says it's leaving, leaves.

Everyone from Tusk down has begged them to stay. Tusk has not tweeted on his EU Pres account since asking the UK to vote tactically on the 12th and only twice to say happy christmas on his personal account.

Him and Guy hurt bad. real bad.

Tusk, Guy, Bercow..the list of those hurt is long.

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK says it's leaving, leaves.

Everyone from Tusk down has begged them to stay. Tusk has not tweeted on his EU Pres account since asking the UK to vote tactically on the 12th and only twice to say happy christmas on his personal account.

Him and Guy hurt bad. real bad.

Tusk, Guy, Bercow..the list of those hurt is long.

UK says it's leaving. Then asks for an extension. Then asks for another one.
Now we're 30 days from the leave date again and I guarantee they'll ask for a third.

And when they do leave they're still in the EU transition period, which lasts at least a year, and I guarantee another extension will be asked for.

Tusk has not tweeted? So what? It's Christmas. He's home with his family.

It would take me too long to list the MPs who've resigned or been fired over the shambles of Brexit.

alastair

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK says it's leaving, leaves.

Everyone from Tusk down has begged them to stay. Tusk has not tweeted on his EU Pres account since asking the UK to vote tactically on the 12th and only twice to say happy christmas on his personal account.

Him and Guy hurt bad. real bad.

Tusk, Guy, Bercow..the list of those hurt is long.

I wonder if there’s anything else that might explain Tusk’s comparative quietness on the EU presidency account?

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You really are living a fantasy. "a backstop with an exit mechanism is not a backstop".

Sure, but what we have now is not a backstop. It is not an arangement that comes into force unless and untill some other arangement is agreed. It is the new permenant arangement that has been agreed. A future trade deal may add to the front stop arangement, but whatever else the British government says or does the frontstop will remain in force. Indeed the British government has entered into an agreement that it does not have the power to leave, and I seem to remember people like you confidently telling all of us that the UK would never do such a thing.

May's keept Northern Ireland aligned to the European Union’s Custom Union and Single Market and meant the UK couldn’t avail of future trade deals and gave Northern Ireland no possibility of enjoying the advantages of brexit due to level playing field fears raised in Brussels (Theresa May rejected a Northern Ireland-only backstop in favour of a UK-wide one in order to protect ‘the integrity of the union’).

And Mr Johnsons deal also keeps NI aligned to EU rules and will see the imposition of non-tarrif barriers to trade between NI and GB which is worse for the UK than Mays deal.

Under the new agreement, the backstop has been abolished.

Yes, indeed. Replaced with a frontstop that contains many elements that were loudly denounced as unacceptable untill the great leader flipped and you all had to trudge after him pretending that his new clothes are just delightful.

Northern Ireland remains aligned to the EU’s Custom Union for a period at it's consent, but will remain in the United Kingdom’s custom territory, meaning that all future trade deals struck that Northern Ireland can avail of them.

Lets be clear here, NI can only avail of those deals as long as they are compatible with EU rules. The UK is left having to negiotiate deals that follow the EUs rulebook or create further divergence between NI and GB.

The UK will no longer “consider aligning with union rules in relevant areas”, as was stated in Theresa May’s rejected deal.

The UK is free to cause itself more damage than Mays deal would have caused, sure. Good luck with that, but don't be too disapointed when the promised land never arrives. Given that at every opportunity the UK has ultimatly failed to break out from the EU sphere of influence, consistantly choosing to make a deal at the last minute rather than follow through on its threats, I don't hold out much hope that the latest round of bluster will be reaslised.

UK is celebrating leaving while the EU begs, pleads and interferes in trying to get the UK not too.

The EU is not begging the UK not to leave, and it is not preventing the UK from doing so. It is the UK that time and again begged for an extension and agreed to a deal rather than follow through on its threats.

Eric Cartman

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK says it's leaving, leaves.

Everyone from Tusk down has begged them to stay. Tusk has not tweeted on his EU Pres account since asking the UK to vote tactically on the 12th and only twice to say happy christmas on his personal account.

Him and Guy hurt bad. real bad.

Tusk, Guy, Bercow..the list of those hurt is long.

I dont think the EU cares about brtain leaving as much as you think, but equally I do think they care more than other posters suggest, not out of a love of having them at the table in brussels but for fear that other countries gorging at the trough currently may pull the plug when they have to start their contribution element , or the higher chance that were a country like turkey to enter the EU that poland and hungary might decide to leave to avoid muslims.