Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

KildareP

EDIT: And I see you were being facetious in your post - if Brexit has shown us anything it's how frightening the line between sarcasm and reality has become

amcalester wrote: »

The backstop is both a trivial matter that can be dealt with quickly once everything else is sorted

If it is indeed a trival matter...

amcalester wrote: »

and something that can’t possibly be put in the WA because it would tie the UK to the EU indefinitely

... why the objection to putting it into the WA?
OK, because you feel it's going to tie the UK into the EU indefinitely - so then it's not trivial at all, and thus...

amcalester wrote: »

despite the fact that it can be dealt with very quickly and easily, but only after it is removed from the WA.

... appears it in fact can't be dealt with quickly and easily. At all.

So what is the purpose of continuing talks when the issue surrounding the backstop is going to go unresolved?

The more cynical might say it's because it's a UK ploy to progress the talks in their favour as much as they possible can, get as much they can achieve and agreed, then walk away when they feel they have enough, commitment free from anything they don't like.

That's why the backstop must be formally signed up to.

blinding

Mezcita wrote: »

No backstop, no withdrawal agreement. Simple as that. The UK can bang on and make threats but the EU have consistently said that it won't be removed. One of these days the UK will learn that they no longer get to call the shots.

Interesting times indeed .

Dytalus

KildareP wrote: »

If it is indeed a trival matter...

... why the objection to putting it into the WA?
OK, because you feel it's going to tie the UK into the EU indefinitely - so then it's not trivial at all, and thus...

... appears it in fact can't be dealt with quickly and easily. At all.

So what is the purpose of continuing talks when the issue surrounding the backstop is going to go unresolved?

The more cynical might say it's because it's a UK ploy to progress the talks in their favour as much as they possible can, get as much they can achieve and agreed, then walk away when they feel they have enough, commitment free from anything they don't like.

That's why the backstop must be formally signed up to.

He was being sarcastic, highlighting the ridiculousness of the UK government's stance on the backstop. I don't think the poster was being serious.

KildareP

Dytalus wrote: »

He was being sarcastic, highlighting the ridiculousness of the UK government's stance on the backstop. I don't think the poster was being serious.

Yeh saw they clarified in a later post.

When sarcasm and deliberate ridiculousness can be readily mistaked for reality, it's a pretty scary indication of where we're at.

Stop moaning ffs

The mad part is the post may have been sarcastic but it It demonstrates exactly the mindset in the UK right now.

Nobody not one of them understands negotiations are closed.

Leo said today it can all be dropped and go ahead if they apply it to NI only. That’s on the table.

They aren’t listening though.


Election next. DUP support gone under the bus. Border in the sea.

Then we can move on to stage two

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Then we can move on to stage two

Which is only the begining.

Bless the poor UK citizen who thinks Brexit is the end of something

amcalester

KildareP wrote: »

EDIT: And I see you were being facetious in your post - if Brexit has shown us anything it's how frightening the line between sarcasm and reality has become


If it is indeed a trival matter...

... why the objection to putting it into the WA?
OK, because you feel it's going to tie the UK into the EU indefinitely - so then it's not trivial at all, and thus...

... appears it in fact can't be dealt with quickly and easily. At all.

So what is the purpose of continuing talks when the issue surrounding the backstop is going to go unresolved?

The more cynical might say it's because it's a UK ploy to progress the talks in their favour as much as they possible can, get as much they can achieve and agreed, then walk away when they feel they have enough, commitment free from anything they don't like.

That's why the backstop must be formally signed up to.

Probably should have put a smiley or similar in there.

Poe's Law would be applicable there.

Stop moaning ffs

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is only the begining.

Bless the poor UK citizen who thinks Brexit is the end of something

Also something you don’t see them discussing at any stage on any outlet.

This is just the beginning.

You know the tabloids will paint stage two to the regular Brit as Eu still trapping us and punishing us!

I’ve no pity for them at this stage. And I have many pals and family there.

J Mysterio

blinding wrote: »

The British people were told both before and after the Referendum that they Result of the Referendum would be Enacted .

Inconvenient for you but completely Accurate and True .:D

They were also told a lot of lies, so it all stinks. You are either a complete dimwit, a troll, or both. My money's on the latter.

Auguste Comte

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is only the begining.

Bless the poor UK citizen who thinks Brexit is the end of something

The end of any economic stability for a generation or two most likely.

Junkyard Tom

I feel bad for British people who are against Brexit but on the upside when Britain is out of the EU its power relative to the EU, and thus Ireland, plummets. The biggest threat to Irish interests has, historically, been the British state and that continues to this day with Brexit being the latest iteration.

What Ireland needs to do is stop pussy-footing around with our so-called 'neutrality' and swing in behind EU security/defence integration - we have a strategically valuable position in the north Atlantic. Also, when a UI happens the entire weight of the EU will be there to lock it down and keep the British state in check if needed.

Irish interests are best served as a fully integrated and pro-federalist member of the EU.

Stop moaning ffs

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel bad for British people who are against Brexit but on the upside when Britain is out of the EU its power relative to the EU, and thus Ireland, plummets. The biggest threat to Irish interests has, historically, been the British state and that continues to this day with Brexit being the latest iteration.

What Ireland needs to do is stop pussy-footing around with our so-called 'neutrality' and swing in behind EU security/defence integration - we have a strategically valuable position in the north Atlantic. Also, when a UI happens the entire weight of the EU will be there to lock it down and keep the British state in check if needed.

Irish interests are best served as a fully integrated and pro-federalist member of the EU.

Agreed but Strategic placement isn’t a real thing anymore. Next one will be nuclear and out of the blue no reprisal planning or defense possible.
It’s was always about subs on that scale and it always will be. (Unless any of them have nukes in space hidden in satellites.)

European navies including our own fishing immigrants out of the sea at some stage might become our own frankly but justifiably piss poor navy picking uk natives out of the water in Dublin bay.

Thts more likely than needing a strategy against Britain armed against us

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel bad for British people who are against Brexit but on the upside when Britain is out of the EU its power relative to the EU, and thus Ireland, plummets. The biggest threat to Irish interests has, historically, been the British state and that continues to this day with Brexit being the latest iteration.

What Ireland needs to do is stop pussy-footing around with our so-called 'neutrality' and swing in behind EU security/defence integration - we have a strategically valuable position in the north Atlantic. Also, when a UI happens the entire weight of the EU will be there to lock it down and keep the British state in check if needed.

Irish interests are best served as a fully integrated and pro-federalist member of the EU.

I hate to say it Tom but I agree with you.I wish Britain would throw it`s weight behind the EU defence thing where it would be an equal partner in an organisation which has the interests of its members number one and not a lackey of a maniac like trump! :eek:

blinding

Nato is looking after Europe and has been for a very long time .

Many Eu Countries are Freeloading on America re; Nato .

Time for them to Start Paying their Way .

RobMc59

blinding wrote: »

Nato is looking after Europe and has been for a very long time .

Many Eu Countries are Freeloading on America re; Nato .

Time for them to Start Paying their Way .

I don`t think trump`s America care`s anything about Europe as a whole or Britain as it`s supposed "special friend"- sadly just a useful lackey when it needs someone to back it up imo .

ArchXStanton

blinding wrote: »

The British people were told both before and after the Referendum that they Result of the Referendum would be Enacted .

Inconvenient for you but completely Accurate and True .:D

Indeed,many a remainer loses their sh*t when you point out it said on the brexit leaflet "this is your decision,the government will implement what you decide"...they seem to be fans of that dodgy democracy the EU peddles..

https://britishawakening.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/i-voted-to-leave-the-eu-not-for-the-brexit-party/

blinding

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don`t think trump`s America care`s anything about Europe as a whole or Britain as it`s supposed "special friend"- sadly just a useful lackey when it needs someone to back it up imo .

It would help if the European Countries stopped Free Loading and Paid Their Way .

Nobody likes Free Loaders !

blinding

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Indeed,many a remainer loses their sh*t when you point out it said on the brexit leaflet "this is your decision,the government will implement what you decide"...they seem to be fans of that dodgy democracy the EU peddles..

https://britishawakening.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/i-voted-to-leave-the-eu-not-for-the-brexit-party/

Excellent post and link . Thank you for your service .

batgoat

blinding wrote: »

It would help if the European Countries stopped Free Loading and Paid Their Way .

Nobody likes Free Loaders !

Do you think Trump style soundbites are an effective way of discussion?

blinding

batgoat wrote: »

Do you think Trump style soundbites are an effective way of discussion?

Regardless of Trump soundbites ; Freeloading is Freeloading . European Countries are behaving disgracefully re; NATO .

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

Indeed,many a remainer loses their sh*t when you point out it said on the brexit leaflet "this is your decision,the government will implement what you decide"...they seem to be fans of that dodgy democracy the EU peddles..

Still waiting for one of you to explain why the government hasn't implemented the peoples' decision. The EU certainly hasn't stopped them.

Guy:Incognito

blinding wrote: »

. Thank you for your service .

I'd really love to know what solar system the planet you live on is in.

Reati

batgoat wrote: »

Do you think Trump style soundbites are an effective way of discussion?

blinding wrote: »

Regardless of Trump soundbites ; Freeloading is Freeloading . European Countries are behaving disgracefully re; NATO .

Doesn't quite have it right.

Needs more like.

Freeloading. Freeloading is Freeloading. And they are at it. They are. European Countries are behaving disgracefully. Disgracefully. Its true. Putin said last week they were acting disgracefully with NATO and I believe him. Need to pay more. Pay more.

Etc etc

Laois_Man

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Indeed,many a remainer loses their sh*t when you point out it said on the brexit leaflet "this is your decision,the government will implement what you decide"...they seem to be fans of that dodgy democracy the EU peddles..

https://britishawakening.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/i-voted-to-leave-the-eu-not-for-the-brexit-party/

And Leavers lose their shot when you point out that the leave campaign never campaigned for a no deal exit and there is therefore no mandate for one!

Quite the opposite in fact

it’ll be the easiest/quickest deal in history they said!

Most read story on The Irish Times today but did Boris Johnson really say about Varadkar:“Why isn’t he called Murphy like all the rest of them?”

Really? I'm struggling to find an actual verbatim quote.



I like the quip in the comments section: 'Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Why isn't he called asshole like all the rest of them?' hehe.

PS: The irony of a Brexiteer claiming the EU is like Nazi Germany when the populist tactics of the Brexiteers are screaming analogies with Nazi Germany, particularly the scapegoating and propaganda aspects.

kunst nugget

Deleted User wrote: »

Most read story on The Irish Times today but did Boris Johnson really say about Varadkar:“Why isn’t he called Murphy like all the rest of them?”

Really? I'm struggling to find an actual verbatim quote.



I like the quip in the comments section: 'Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Why isn't he called asshole like all the rest of them?' hehe.

PS: The irony of a Brexiteer claiming the EU is like Nazi Germany when the populist tactics of the Brexiteers are screaming analogies with Nazi Germany, particularly the scapegoating and propaganda aspects.

It seems to come from a FT article (that's behind a paywall) but this Business Insider article has a rundown of other guff he's said about other EU leaders.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-angela-merkel-stasi-leo-varadkar-murphy-comments-brexit-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

knipex

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'd really love to know what solar system the planet you live on is in.

Trolleville.

Blinding exists for 1 reason and one reason only. To wind people up.. Interacting with him just encourages him..

blinding

One day , maybe not soon The Irish people will do as they partially did to the British Empire ( 26 Counties Worth ) and as they are now doing to the Catholic Church Empire , they will caste the Yoke of the Eu from Ireland because they will see that what happened throughout history , that any Organisation that became too powerful always formed an Empire and that the Eu will be no different .

For the sake of argument , Lets say Brexit does happen ‘ Of how much importance do you think the Republic of Ireland will be on Eu Terms = not very important to the Eu Overlords .

Even I admit that the Republic of Ireland may have punched above its weight because its interest were almost always in Tandem with British Interests in the Eu . Maybe this will continue even after Brexit .

One thing we most certainly do not need is a Gobdaw Taoiseach offering ( off his own / well our bat ) Irish taxpayers money to the Eu because he wants his belly tickled . How many more Mercusor Deals is Varadkar Lapping up for Brussels ?

We need Politicians that will stand up for Ireland in Brussels and not Sycophants to the Eu Overlords .

Seth Brundle

blinding wrote: »

One day , maybe not soon The Irish people will do as they partially did to the British Empire ( 26 Counties Worth ) and as they are now doing to the Catholic Church Empire , they will caste the Yoke of the Eu from Ireland because they will see that what happened throughout history , that any Organisation that became too powerful always formed an Empire and that the Eu will be no different .

For the sake of argument , Lets say Brexit does happen ‘ Of how much importance do you think the Republic of Ireland will be on Eu Terms = not very important to the Eu Overlords .

Even I admit that the Republic of Ireland may have punched above its weight because its interest were almost always in Tandem with British Interests in the Eu . Maybe this will continue even after Brexit .

One thing we most certainly do not need is a Gobdaw Taoiseach offering ( off his own / well our bat ) Irish taxpayers money to the Eu because he wants his belly tickled . How many more Mercusor Deals is Varadkar Lapping up for Brussels ?

We need Politicians that will stand up for Ireland in Brussels and not Sycophants to the Eu Overlords .

Come on, it's not difficult to do it right...
https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/c/capslock.htm

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

One day , maybe not soon The Irish people will do as they partially did to the British Empire ( 26 Counties Worth ) and as they are now doing to the Catholic Church Empire , they will caste the Yoke of the Eu from Ireland because they will see that what happened throughout history , that any Organisation that became too powerful always formed an Empire and that the Eu will be no different .

For the sake of argument , Lets say Brexit does happen ‘ Of how much importance do you think the Republic of Ireland will be on Eu Terms = not very important to the Eu Overlords .

Even I admit that the Republic of Ireland may have punched above its weight because its interest were almost always in Tandem with British Interests in the Eu . Maybe this will continue even after Brexit .

One thing we most certainly do not need is a Gobdaw Taoiseach offering ( off his own / well our bat ) Irish taxpayers money to the Eu because he wants his belly tickled . How many more Mercusor Deals is Varadkar Lapping up for Brussels ?

We need Politicians that will stand up for Ireland in Brussels and not Sycophants to the Eu Overlords .

You do understand what it means to be in a 'union' with the acquiescence of the majority of the electorate here?

You do understand that trade deals will invariably mean that we agree to give and take? That when we get an advantage that there are people elsewhere in the union that might have what advatages us go against them?

You do understand that you cannot cherrypick out one aspect of one deal that may disadvantage us to have a rant about the whole arrangement?