Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Eric Cartman

while I don't agree with the overall sentiment, I do think that having a PM who personally was a leave voter has definitely assisted and I do not think Mays, Camerons or any other itteration of the Tory front bench being remainers could meaningfully deliver brexit.

Irishmale0399

cryptocurrency wrote: »

One quit the day of the vote to leave and the other was a remainer.

This is the first leave PM they have faced and have been taking head blows against the ropes since the bell.

So answer us....what do the UK take to the party?? What do they have in the back hand to force their wishes on the EU?? How is Boris going to force the EU to accept his deal???

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Parliament wouldn't let them leave. The UK would leave no dela but theyr will be a deal.

No deal is a disaster for the EU. I think the UK should go no deal adn slash everything so tariffs don't matter.

And I'm sure now they'll leave straight away?

No?

Didn't think so.

Reality doesn't match your opinions.

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

One quit the day of the vote to leave and the other was a remainer.

This is the first leave PM they have faced and have been taking head blows against the ropes since the bell.

If Johnson is so effective, why did he have to abandon his promises to the DUP and accept something that even his supposidly weak predecessor said "no PM would ever accept" aka a border in the Irish sea?

Mr Johnson has been humilitated in his first 100 days as PM and he is well aware of it. With his new majority in the commons, he can't even blame Parliament for his blushes, he will have to own it for himself.

easypazz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Parliament wouldn't let them leave. The UK would leave no dela but theyr will be a deal.

No deal is a disaster for the EU. I think the UK should go no deal adn slash everything so tariffs don't matter.

How is no deal an eu disaster?

The uk is an island on the periphary, freeze them out and once the dust settles nobody will bat an eyelid.

Granted it will be an issue for ireland but a solution for that will evolve too.

cryptocurrency

Imreoir2 wrote: »

If Johnson is so effective, why did he have to abandon his promises to the DUP and accept something that even his supposidly weak predecessor said "no PM would ever accept" aka a border in the Irish sea?

Mr Johnson has been humilitated in his first 100 days as PM and he is well aware of it. With his new majority in the commons, he can't even blame Parliament for his blushes, he will have to own it for himself.

NI is not in the EU CU

cryptocurrency

easypazz wrote: »

How is no deal an eu disaster?

The uk is an island on the periphary, freeze them out and once the dust settles nobody will bat an eyelid.

Granted it will be an issue for ireland but a solution for that will evolve too.

EU, freezing out the UK. Give me strength.

Think about what you are saying man. This is child like.

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

EU, freezing out the UK. Give me strength.

Think about what you are saying man. This is child like.

Likewise leaving without a deal.

Not a hope, empty rhetoric.

Boredstiff666

Imreoir2 wrote: »

We called it like it is. It's really not our fault that the British people were taken in by a con and choose to dubble down when it all started to go wrong.

We will be damaged by their choices, most reasonable posters here understand that, but there is little we can do about that. We can only seek to protect our interests as best we can, ensuring the integrity of the Single Market and making sure the border remains open come what may are far higher on the list of priorities than flattering the conmen in the UK who have caused this mess.

Worring about the feelings of Mr Johnson or how his backers think of us is far less important than ensuring that our national interest is represented effectivly by the EU in the Brexit process. So far, this strategy has paid dividends for us, we are much better off now than we would have been had we allowed ourselves be conned by those same charlatens who have done some much to damage the UK. We had a choice to side with the UK, potentially follow them out of the EU or accept their empty assurances over the border, or stick with the EU and make sure legally binding arangements were included in the deal. I think it is unquestionable that we made the right choice and will suffer far less than would otherwise have been the case.

So here we go again the same old stale tune. The Brits are stupid and gullible and easily conned not once but now twice.

If a government or anybody was conning the people it would take but just a few weeks before it all unfolded......it hasn't and it is what the people want.

I am working class and from the midlands. I am a Brit and lived here 24 years. When I lived in UK. In all that time I never knew anybody who was pro EU and I knew business men, farmers and factory workers etc.

To be honest I dont think I do now except for holidaying Irish people who live in UK. The people I am still in touch with over there are now hardened anti EU after what went on last year. And some very anti Leo and sidekick. They didnt go down well with their antics.

I dont know what to say to you as you are so entrenched in your anti-British stuff.

This year will tell.

Donald Trump

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well if I was starting my own business for the first time which I have done a few times before. i would be cheaper and better than my competitors.

In the case of the UK it is very easy to undercut competitors because all they have to do is reduce prices and one way without affecting business but actually causing a boom is to reduce or abolish VAT.

Instantly UK goods become 25% cheaper to other VAT countries which just happen to be EU countries.

The problems that would cause in the first week of doing this are monumental...........but not to the UK. The UK would suffer a partial revenue loss partly offset by the massive boom in consumer spending and exports to EU countries as the smuggling routes open up.

At the same time Leo or the next one instantly try's to form a hard border with NI and every soldier and members of their families link arms in an attempt to stop cross border shopping but are trampled to death in the stampede.

France orders its Navy to intercept all French bound ships entering their waters searching for UK goods as does Spain and Portugal.

Meanwhile EU businesses are kicking down the doors of Brussels to get VAT abolished in order to be on a level footing as the EU retail businesses start to suffer with a huge knock on effect.

Well I would do something like that for starters anyway........Business is war!

Question for you dude

Why don't these genius smugglers just do it now? Surely if they are going to be able to manage a cross border and cross sea large scale smuggling operation in thr future, they should be able to do it now by just sourcing the goods in the UK and not paying the VAT?

Boredstiff666

Donald Trump wrote: »

Question for you dude

Why don't these genius smugglers just do it now? Surely if they are going to be able to manage a cross border and cross sea large scale smuggling operation in thr future, they should be able to do it now by just sourcing the goods in the UK and not paying the VAT?

A few reasons really but if for instance was abolished or drastically reduced it would be across the board....Massive!

Reasons:

I don't know anywhere you can by stuff without vat as manufacturers need to charge vat to recover vat. You may find a few 'cash' working manufacturers as you do here.

Also the UK is largely a 'cash less' society now so all goods are paid by card or transfer so all vat traceable etc.

And those who may be up to such now arent gonna tell you as they would want it kept quiet wouldn't they.

Have you ever thought what would happen here if goods in NI were 25% cheaper? imagine a saturday morning through to Ennislillin. It would be the longest line of traffic every known with beaten up Gards along the route or hiding in the back of trucks along with others.

Donald Trump

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

A few reasons really but if for instance was abolished or drastically reduced it would be across the board....Massive!

Reasons:

I don't know anywhere you can by stuff without vat as manufacturers need to charge vat to recover vat. You may find a few 'cash' working manufacturers as you do here.

Also the UK is largely a 'cash less' society now so all goods are paid by card or transfer so all vat traceable etc.

And those who may be up to such now arent gonna tell you as they would want it kept quiet wouldn't they.

Have you ever though what would happen here if goods in NI were 25% cheaper? imagine a saturday morning through to Ennislillin. It would be the longest line of traffic every known with beaten up Gards along the route or hiding in the back of trucks along with others.

There is a good chance that goods up North will be a lot cheaper. Not necessarily due to VAT though. The ould pound might take another dive. Lines of traffic backed up to Newry aren't exactly going to make the EU countries implode though are they?

Or sure, to indulge the fantasists, The UK post Brexit will probably be so wealthy that they won't even need to charge for anything. It will probably just be that anyone who goes there can have what they like for free.

Boredstiff666

Donald Trump wrote: »

There is a good chance that goods up North will be a lot cheaper. Not necessarily due to VAT though. The ould pound might take another dive. Lines of traffic backed up to Newry aren't exactly going to make the EU countries implode though are they?

Very true but in the 80's in the UK there was Booze Cruises....all legal if you wasn't reselling wink wink.

This is where booze was a lot cheaper in France. And this is the truth ....you could not hire a van or light truck anywhere in the uk on a Friday through to Tuesday.

They were all booked up and hired out as was every ferry place and hovercraft place from UK to France.

So if anybody here was there at the time and remembers that 6-10 months of madness, they will tell you what a large price reduction does to peoples greed.

joseywhales

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

So here we go again the same old stale tune. The Brits are stupid and gullible and easily conned not once but now twice.

If a government or anybody was conning the people it would take but just a few weeks before it all unfolded......it hasn't and it is what the people want.

I am working class and from the midlands. I am a Brit and lived here 24 years. When I lived in UK. In all that time I never knew anybody who was pro EU and I knew business men, farmers and factory workers etc.

To be honest I dont think I do now except for holidaying Irish people who live in UK. The people I am still in touch with over there are now hardened anti EU after what went on last year. And some very anti Leo and sidekick. They didnt go down well with their antics.

I dont know what to say to you as you are so entrenched in your anti-British stuff.

This year will tell.

Based on the history of Britain(we'd still be waiting on that home rule we were promised) and the inconsistency of the current leadership, you can see why the taoiseach could never take non binding assurances from the UK in good faith. Their only choice was to get legally binding agreement on the NI border, it was nothing personal, just good sense. I am very happy that they stuck to their position. At no point did I get the impression that they were condescending to the British people, they just highlighted the issue repeatedly as is their mandate.

seamus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

If a government or anybody was conning the people it would take but just a few weeks before it all unfolded......it hasn't and it is what the people want.

Except that it has. Every single time. Every promise that was made, every claim about money coming in or going out, has been shown to be complete bollocks.

Johnson got into the PM seat and failed spectacularly to deliver anything. Re-elected, he will now do exactly the same.

The British people have been conned, and they just don't care. You've been sold a pup, but you're pretending that's what you wanted all along.

And when the economy goes in the toilet, you'll pretend that it's OK, that's what you wanted. All because of British spirit or pride or somesuch bollocks.

Even your rhetoric about trenches and battles speaks to it. You've been lying to yourselves since WWII that you won that war and that you're still a major world economy in control of international trade. The reality is that without the EU, the UK would have been sidelined in the 1980s and seen its economy stagnate. So would we.

The difference is that we don't think we're a powerful economy flying solo with the EU as hangers-on. We are acutely aware that we are a part of a single major economy and massively dependent on it.

You, are not. The chickens will come home to roost.

On another platform someone asked me if the 14m people who voted Tory at the general election, could really all be idiots. And the answer is yes. It seems entirely plausible to me that of 52m adults in the UK, 26% of them are morons.

alastair

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

So here we go again the same old stale tune. The Brits are stupid and gullible and easily conned not once but now twice.

If a government or anybody was conning the people it would take but just a few weeks before it all unfolded......it hasn't and it is what the people want.

I am working class and from the midlands. I am a Brit and lived here 24 years. When I lived in UK. In all that time I never knew anybody who was pro EU and I knew business men, farmers and factory workers etc.

To be honest I dont think I do now except for holidaying Irish people who live in UK. The people I am still in touch with over there are now hardened anti EU after what went on last year. And some very anti Leo and sidekick. They didnt go down well with their antics.

I dont know what to say to you as you are so entrenched in your anti-British stuff.

This year will tell.

You’ve clearly never met a majority of Scots then? Or any of the 48% In the U.K. who voted against Brexit?

Boredstiff666

seamus wrote: »

Except that it has. Every single time. Every promise that was made, every claim about money coming in or going out, has been shown to be complete bollocks.

Johnson got into the PM seat and failed spectacularly to deliver anything. Re-elected, he will now do exactly the same.

The British people have been conned, and they just don't care. You've been sold a pup, but you're pretending that's what you wanted all along.

And when the economy goes in the toilet, you'll pretend that it's OK, that's what you wanted. All because of British spirit or pride or somesuch bollocks.

Even your rhetoric about trenches and battles speaks to it. You've been lying to yourselves since WWII that you won that war and that you're still a major world economy in control of international trade. The reality is that without the EU, the UK would have been sidelined in the 1980s and seen its economy stagnate. So would we.

The difference is that we don't think we're a powerful economy flying solo with the EU as hangers-on. We are acutely aware that we are a part of a single major economy and massively dependent on it.

You, are not. The chickens will come home to roost.

On another platform someone asked me if the 14m people who voted Tory at the general election, could really all be idiots. And the answer is yes. It seems entirely plausible to me that of 52m adults in the UK, 26% of them are morons.

Ok then we will see what happens.

Boredstiff666

alastair wrote: »

You’ve clearly never met a majority of Scots then? Or any of the 48% In the U.K. who voted against Brexit?

My grandad was a Scot. But 48% of approx 5.5 million is about the population of Liverpool.

alastair

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

My grandad was a Scot. But 48% of approx 5.5 million is about the population of Liverpool.

Ahh - so your contention is that the vote doesn’t represent the actual sentiment of the U.K.? That all these anti-EU people didn’t bother to actually opt out of the EU? 😂

cryptocurrency

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Ok then we will see what happens.

The will scream and whine and try to see little victories and justifications either way.

These are people who hang on and cling like rainman to the exact date of the 31st and claim that Boris WA is the same as May's. It's nuts.

If they view day to day stuff like they do this issue then they must be fairly pathetic.

I read their posts and presume they had their dinner money taken and wedgies their entire lives. Submission is all they do.

Call me Al

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Nope, a binning of the backstop, removal of the level playing field, opportunity to walk at the end of 2020 if the EU drag their feet.

The satisfaction of making the EU look like today chumps.

You mean the backstop the UK asked the EU for in the first place? With a please and thank you all that.

So they either want it or they dont. Finally they made up their minds.
They didn't have to wait until 2020 to walk. They could have walked from the rest of the stuff you've listed at any time.
But despite all that nonsensical bluster that has come from Johnson they're in such a weak negotiating position right now they knew they couldn't and still can't. Sad.

cryptocurrency

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

My grandad was a Scot. But 48% of approx 5.5 million is about the population of Liverpool.

Scotland may have voted remain but they will see that their fears were blown up by the SNP and that will backfire on the SNP when nothing claimed happens.

The independence talk is laughale. Outside of the republican song singing parts of glasgow, Independance doesn't have much support.

KildareP

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The will scream and whine and try to see little victories and justifications either way.

These are people who hang on and cling like rainman to the exact date of the 31st and claim that Boris WA is the same as May's. It's nuts.

If they view day to day stuff like they do this issue then they must be fairly pathetic.

I read their posts and presume they had their dinner money taken and wedgies their entire lives. Submission is all they do.

And yet - you expect the EU will submit to the UK demands without question.
Because they need the UK more.

Boredstiff666

Call me Al wrote: »

You mean the backstop the UK asked the EU for in the first place? With a please and thank you all that.

So they either want it or they dont. Finally they made up their minds.
They didn't have to wait until 2020 to walk. They could have walked from the rest of the stuff you've listed at any time.
But despite all that nonsensical bluster that has come from Johnson they're in such a weak negotiating position right now they knew they couldn't and still can't. Sad.

The backstop was from a woman who has never believed in her country or what the people wanted.

In fact in every job she has had she caused mayhem and has been a complete disaster even down to her dancing.

She should have been sacked from any form of government 10 years ago

alastair

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Scotland may have voted remain but they will see that their fears were blown up by the SNP and that will backfire on the SNP when nothing claimed happens.

The independence talk is laughale. Outside of the republican song singing parts of glasgow, Independance doesn't have much support.

Strange that it currently stands at 44% then? Those must be some substantial sing songs.

cryptocurrency

KildareP wrote: »

And yet - you expect the EU will submit to the UK demands without question.
Because they need the UK more.

No. I expect the UK not to tolerate threats from the EU and make it clear that threats and actions against the UK and it's people will be viewed as such.

The UK has just decided to take a different direction to the EU as it doesn't agree with the direction it is going. If these neighbours in the EU thinks this now warrants them to try to "punish" the UK to "warn" others to not think of leaving then they better look out. They are not friends or neighbours if they think that way. The UK needs to make that clear...the message from the UK needs to be "try this on lads and your cards marked".

Boredstiff666

alastair wrote: »

Ahh - so your contention is that the vote doesn’t represent the actual sentiment of the U.K.? That all these anti-EU people didn’t bother to actually opt out of the EU? 😂

No you go with what ever voting system or rules and regs you have on it that you have got.

In Ireland they use a different system. A system where everybody is supposed to be represented and that doesnt work either.

A system were there is no difference between the parties and they work deals to keep themselves in well paid jobs, then import people they dont need while the people they are supposed to represent sleep on the streets during the biggest housing crisis the country has ever known.

Point is you go with what you have.

alastair

cryptocurrency wrote: »

No. I expect the UK not to tolerate threats from the EU and make it clear that threats and actions against the UK and it's people will be viewed as such.

The UK has just decided to take a different direction to the EU as it doesn't agree with the direction it is going. If these neighbours in the EU thinks this now warrants them to try to "punish" the UK to "warn" others to not think of leaving then they better look out. They are not friends or neighbours if they think that way. The UK needs to make that clear...the message from the UK needs to be "try this on lads and your cards marked".

The EU has threatened the U.K. with precisely zilch. But the U.K. is not exactly in a strong bargaining position. That’s the reality.

alastair

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No you go with what ever voting system or rules and regs you have on it that you have got.

In Ireland they use a different system. A system where everybody is supposed to be represented and that doesnt work either.

A system were there is no difference between the parties and they work deals to keep themselves in well paid jobs, then import people they dont need while the people they are supposed to represent sleep on the streets during the biggest housing crisis the country has ever known.

Point is you go with what you have.

Point is 48% of the U.K. voted to remain in the EU. So your not knowing any of those people is besides the point.

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

NI is not in the EU CU

A fig leaf was all it took?
NI will be following the rules of the EU CU&SM for years and years to come. There will a border in the Irish sea, loyalists are calling it an effective economic United Ireland. But a small face saving technicality is all it takes for you to swallow it?

Must be nice for Mr Johnson to have such sicophants ready to line up behind him no matter what deal he brings home or what redlines he has to abandon to do it.