Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Boredstiff666

davedanon wrote: »

I love how the keyboard warriors on here are proudly claiming to be hard-nosed business types, self-made men who live in 'the real world'. It's like they like to think the people they're debating with on here are all deluded airy-fairy liberal professors who live in ivory towers and don't have 'real jobs'.

I have never said that and that is a monumental twist of my words.

You arent a prosecution barrister by any chance?

Kidchameleon

J Mysterio wrote: »

More often than not, those who support Brexit also support Trump.

Probably because we dont beleive the narritive spun by the SJW media, we inform ourselves from independent, unbiased sources... And I say that as no big fan of Trump. I dont dislike him though, he is a great president. His lack of movement on the Assange issue turned me against him

First Up

Boredstiff666 wrote:

The single market is great if you are in it but restrictive as well. For instance you cant go and source goods cheaper if you are in it.

You really should inform yourself about which you speak. The UK sources 50% of its imports from outside the single market.

davedanon

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I have never said that and that is a monumental twist of my words.

You arent a prosecution barrister by any chance?

I'm inferring it from what you and other have posted. Again, not derailing but this is like Trump taking a Dem congressman's (Schiff?) satire on him as literal truth and yelling that he's being libelled.

Boredstiff666

davedanon wrote: »

I'm inferring it from what you and other have posted. Again, not derailing but this is like Trump taking a Dem congressman's (Schiff?) satire on him as literal truth and yelling that he's being libelled.

Ok forget all that as I said before I dont have a Trump phobia. I am not Pat Kenny.

Can you explain how he affects me so much as I am mystified?

davedanon

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Can you explain how he affects me so much as I am mystified?

No, I won't.

Imreoir2

Deleted User wrote: »

The frontstop and backstop are vastly different.. Not sure why many posters seem to think they're similar. With the backstop, the entirety of the UK had to remain in the CU which meant there couldn't be other trade deals. With the frontstop, there can be new deals

There was more than one version of the backstop. The final version of the backstop, the UK wide version, was quite different to the frontstop as you say. But the frontstop is very similar to the NI only version of the backstop which the EU proposed in the first place.

Making the backstop UK wide was a significant concession by the EU and a significant win for May's team in negotiations. Ultimatly though it was not acceptable to either remainers or hard Brexiters. The hard Brexiters found a way to compromise in the end and got something closer to what they wanted, the remainers were unwilling to compromise and got something much worse than May's deal.

The only real difference between the NI only backstop and the frontstop we have now is that the frontstop is not supposed to be temporary and there is no expectation that NI remaining in their EU sphere seperate to GB is something that needs to be changed. The UK has accepted a border in the Irish sea and no longer even wants it to be temporary. There were supposed to be immediate and acceperated negotiations to find a workable replacement to the backstop as part of the future trade relationship but none of that applies to the frontstop. The frontstop is the new agreed status quo once the transition period ends. A future trade agreement might complement the frontstop, but it's not going to replace the frontstop.

The EU's aim was to close the border issue and not allow it to spill over into the future trade negotiations. If anything the frontstop is better for the EU than the backstop was in this respect. With the need to find a replacement to the backstop, the border issue would have constantly been an issue in the trade negotiations. That is not the case with the frontstop. The question is now actually closed, there is no reason for the border question to form a significant part of the trade negotiations meaning the EU can go into them with the gloves off.

easypazz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Probably because we dont beleive the narritive spun by the SJW media, we inform ourselves from independent, unbiased sources... And I say that as no big fan of Trump. I dont dislike him though, he is a great president. His lack of movement on the Assange issue turned me against him

How is Trump a great president, what makes him great exactly?

davedanon

I didn't much like Phil Hogan when he was here, but I'm quite looking forward to him putting the Brits' noses out of joint - which he will absolutely do. The right man in the right place.

davedanon

easypazz wrote: »

How is Trump a great president, what makes him great exactly?

Dur. He shakes things up and pwns the Libtards. Plus he's the winningest Prez of all times!!!

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Meanwhile Ireland..........is in the ****e. So much of the Irish economy relies on the UK. The very place Leo and his sidekick relentlessly insulted and tried to so openly undermine in talks with the EU thinking they had the upperhand.

How much do you think we rely on the UK?
This is not the 1950's, Ireland's economey is not dependant on the UK. While their economey is stalling, our's is doing quite well.

It is true that a no-trade deal Brexit would be bad for Ireland, but as members of the largest single market on earth Irish businesses have options to replace British markets for which British businesses would give their first born child.

The UK needs a deal with the EU far more than Ireland needs a deal with the UK. In raw numbers the UK is far more dependant on the EU than Ireland is dependant on the UK.

davedanon

Imreoir2 wrote: »

How much do you think we rely on the UK?
This is not the 1950's, Ireland's economey is not dependant on the UK. While their economey is stalling, our's is doing quite well.

It is true that a no-trade deal Brexit would be bad for Ireland, but as members of the largest single market on earth Irish businesses have options to replace British markets for which British businesses would give their first born child.

The UK needs a deal with the EU far more than Ireland needs a deal with the UK. In raw numbers the UK is far more dependant on the EU than Ireland is dependant on the UK.

They will never admit the truth of this, though. It's an article of faith that the EU = bad and Brexit/UK = good. This is why none of their arguments make logical sense. They are literally arguing in bad faith.

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I am not saying that Britain is going to have a rosey future.

I am not saying anything at all about Britain except ...NOW THEY WILL BE LEAVING AND IT ALL STARTS NEXT MONTH.

What I am saying is forget all that and realise ....WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.

For those who ridiculously think that Leo has this powerful position at the head of the EU and is going to command and dictate to all in Irelands favour............ARE YOU SERIOUSLY THAT STUPID?

Do you think for one moment that Macron and Merkal and whoever is going to let little Paddy and his banana republic orchestrate talks in favour of Ireland over what may happen elsewhere in the EU countries like Germany and France?

Do you really think Little Leo has an equal say at that big table?

If you do you are seriously deluded.

We are nobody in the big scheme of things and if deals are struck with the UK to suit other places in the EU at the expence of Ireland then those in Brussels will do it in a heartbeat without even thinking.

That is simply business.

You are entirely wrong. Ireland, like every member state has a veto over any trade deal the EU agrees. The EU are extremely careful to make sure that any deal agreed is balenced and acceptable to all members. That is one of the reasons that trade deals take so long to agree.

Several trade deals have stalled before even getting to ratification stage becasue it was clear that one or more member states would not accept what the other side was demanding.

davedanon

When you are arguing from an ideological standpoint, your points will always be over-complicated, your logic convoluted, and aimed not at convincing by making things clearer, but at overwhelming by sheer persistence, and muddying the waters so much that some just shake their heads and give up. These people will never change their minds because their minds were made up long ago, and all they're interested in is twisting facts and distorting the narrative to fit their pre-conceived biases. All of us here on one side are banging our heads against a wall built of ignorance, stupidity and bigoted assumptions. Boris in all probability will flip flop before the end of June and ask for an extension, because A) they have no time, and they are staggeringly incompetent anyway.

But you can be sure that crypto, kid and 666 (with Cartman jabbering away contrarianishly on the sidelines) will blithely be asserting some other strawman fantasy world where Boris is winning, the UK 'unleashing its potential' and the 'caving like a cheap tent' EU is on the brink of collapse.

First Up

Imreoir2 wrote:

It is true that a no-trade deal Brexit would be bad for Ireland, but as members of the largest single market on earth Irish businesses have options to replace British markets for which British businesses would give their first born child.

There is no scenario that will result in a "no trade" deal. The worst it could be is trade under WTO terms. That would involve some tariffs but trade can still happen. There will be border delays though and some of our trade with the continent via the Landbridge might need to be re-routed if UK ports are choked.

We may lose some business in the UK but we will have opportunities to take business from the UK in EU markets. Food is most vulnerable but the UK has to import half of what it eats from somewhere so tariffs on imports will be passed to UK consumers.

Imreoir2

First Up wrote: »

There is no scenario that will result in a "no trade" deal. The worst it could be is trade under WTO terms. That would involve some tariffs but trade can still happen. There will be border delays though and some of our trade with the continent via the Landbridge might need to be re-routed if UK ports are choked.

We may lose some business in the UK but we will have opportunities to take business from the UK in EU markets. Food is most vulnerable but the UK has to import half of what it eats from somewhere so tariffs on imports will be passed to UK consumers.

That is what I ment. No trade deal is the absence of a trade deal, not the absence of trade.

Junkyard Tom

The sunlit uplands.

Kidchameleon

easypazz wrote: »

How is Trump a great president, what makes him great exactly?

Results

easypazz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Results

Yawn.

How is the wall going.

How is kicking out the illegal immigrants going.

How is the muslim ban going.

The global economy is churning away nicely, its not like Trump has made any difference.

Is Leo a great leader of Ireland because the economy is on an uptick anyway.

Boredstiff666

davedanon wrote: »

I am not going to derail the thread, but if you don't see how Brexit/Trump/Orban/Bolsonaro/Duterte/Putin all align and all belong to the same malign paradigm then there's no point in me explaining it to you.

Well I didn't know David Icke used Boards.ie.

Boredstiff666

davedanon wrote: »

But you can be sure that crypto, kid and 666 (with Cartman jabbering away contrarianishly on the sidelines) will blithely be asserting some other strawman fantasy world where Boris is winning, the UK 'unleashing its potential' and the 'caving like a cheap tent' EU is on the brink of collapse.

Absolutely John Sedgewick syndrome.

Listen Davey....no problem.....only a few weeks to go. But remember there are a lot of powerful forces out there which love turmoil and confusion so that they can make a quick buck or settle scores. So if you think all will go ADCDE, they may not and push things another way.

Like I say just wait.

easypazz

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Absolutely John Sedgewick syndrome.

Listen Davey....no problem.....only a few weeks to go. But remember there are a lot of powerful forces out there which love turmoil and confusion so that they can make a quick buck or settle scores. So if you think all will go ADCDE, they may not and push things another way.

Like I say just wait.

Nothing will happen in a few weeks, the media will hype it up and a few days later the world will trundle along as always.

Remember when Trump got into power, signing executive orders in a media frenzy and after the dust settled things carried on as normal.

Expect more of the same with BOJO at the end of the month, all bluster and soundbites then it will be all forgotten about a few days later.

Kidchameleon

easypazz wrote: »

How is the wall going.

He's not even half way through his presidency, plenty of time to fulfill his promise. He has already secured billions in funding and has expanded the wall 100's of miles.

easypazz wrote: »

How is kicking out the illegal immigrants going.

They are illegal and should be kicked out. Its in the name. He is managing about quarter of a million deportations a year which is slightly less than Barack Hussein Obama managed on average. Bear in mind, there are probably less of them there to kick out thanks to Trump. In other words, his numbers for deportations being lower is actually a sign that he is doing better.

easypazz wrote: »

How is the muslim ban going.

He never said he was going to ban Muslims.

He put a temporary ban on visitors from certain countries, some of which happened to be majority Muslim. These countries were flagged as a threat by Barack Hussein Obama's administration. Trump was fulfilling his mandate to protect his people.

easypazz wrote: »

The global economy is churning away nicely, its not like Trump has made any difference.

Of course he has. He is probably the most influential person in the world in the most powerful position in the world. His policies have reinvigorated one of the worlds largest economies causing a knock on effect throughout the world.

easypazz wrote: »

Is Leo a great leader of Ireland because the economy is on an uptick anyway.

Leo is not a leader, I have no respect for him.

Kidchameleon

I watched the BBC clip. The full context changes nothing. Barnier is using Ireland as a pawn. He refers to our country in such a disrespectful manner. He is a disgrace. Himself and his ilk do not care about Ireland, they should have no power over us.


I cited that clip because it shows Barnier is not such a saint as some people in here like to think and my point still stands.

fly_agaric

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I watched the BBC clip. The full context changes nothing. Barnier is using Ireland as a pawn. He refers to our country in such a disrespectful manner. He is a disgrace. Himself and his ilk do not care about Ireland, they should have no power over us.


I cited that clip because it shows Barnier is not such a saint as some people in here like to think and my point still stands.

Very well, you've also taken the Crypto route of deny, deflect, then re-emphasise the core message & the talking points. Sad but not altogether unexpected.
I do hope someone somewhere out there is paying you per post. Noone pays me for the time I've been wasting unfortunately.

Imreoir2

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I watched the BBC clip. The full context changes nothing. Barnier is using Ireland as a pawn. He refers to our country in such a disrespectful manner. He is a disgrace. Himself and his ilk do not care about Ireland, they should have no power over us.


I cited that clip because it shows Barnier is not such a saint as some people in here like to think and my point still stands.

How does the clip show Barnier using Ireland as a pawn and in what sence is he being disrespectful? I have watched the clip several times now and I can see none of that.

Irish Praetorian

Kidchameleon wrote: »

He's not even half way through his presidency, plenty of time to fulfill his promise.

Come the 20th of this month he will be three quarters of the way through his term, starting his final 12 month. Depending on reelection he could become a lame duck or inaugurate another 4 years.

Boredstiff666

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Come the 20th of this month he will be three quarters of the way through his term, starting his final 12 month. Depending on reelection he could become a lame duck or inaugurate another 4 years.

I know nowt about Trump except he appears to wind the Looney left up to off the scale proportions.

But if the opposition is that woman who did that impeachment thing? Then Trump will be President again and his party (Republics) will have their bums in every seat.

Who could vote for that woman and her party. They are absolute crazy gang.

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I know nowt about Trump except he appears to wind the Looney left up to off the scale proportions.

It's a really sad state of affairs when someone bases their opinion of a leader on how much they wind up the opposition.

Boredstiff666

Imreoir2 wrote: »

It's a really sad state of affairs when someone bases their opinion of a leader on how much they wind up the opposition.

I have no interest in trying to rule everybodies lives.

I am on here as my username says. Others must think they are worth listening too and can change peoples opinions by constantly spouting their beliefs. They are wrong.

The internet does have it's downside as well it seems.

Amazing how many Lefties are always so knowledgeable but live in a country that cant stand on its own two feet without other people bailing them out and having their economy managed by a few big corps.

But of course it's always everybody else's fault.

Who we blaming next then?.....Started as Brexit and thick stupid Britts.....now Trump......How about Bono......Not many people like him and we could eventually come to some agreement.