Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think that is what they are boldly gonna change

Yep, they just need to make an extra special wish upon a star. :rolleyes:

cryptocurrency

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Yep, they just need to make an extra special wish upon a star. :rolleyes:

keep telling yourself that.

2019: the year the media lost the plot
Fake news, conspiracy theories and hysteria have become the new normal for broadsheets and broadcasters.

2019 was a shocking year for the British media. According to research by the Reuters Institute, there has been a marked decline in public trust in the news over the past few years. The proportion of people who trust the news media ‘most of the time’ has fallen from 51 per cent in 2015 to just 40 per cent in 2019. And who can blame them?


While the tabloids have always been well-known for being sensationalist, bombastic and politically partisan – indeed, that’s why people buy them – the most striking development has been the rapid descent of the supposedly ‘quality’ sections of the media. At times last year, the broadsheet press and the ‘impartial’ broadcasters lost all grip on reason and objectivity, disseminating fake news, conspiracy theories and outright hysteria.

In a year that started with the historic defeat of Theresa May’s Brexit deal and ended with Boris Johnson’s election victory – punctuated by several brushes with a No Deal Brexit – there was plenty of opportunities for journalists to become unhinged.


Brexit has proved particularly difficult for journalists to cover objectively. Most broadcast journalists, in particular, clearly support Remain and don’t do much to hide it. For instance, when John Humphrys retired from the Today programme this year, he recalled the ‘grim’ expressions on BBC bosses’ faces on the day of the Leave result. Although he himself voted Remain, he lamented that there was ‘no attempt to pretend that this was anything other than a disaster’ at the BBC.

The prospect of a No Deal Brexit revived Project Fear on steroids. The BBC swapped measured analysis for ludicrous scare stories. Food-industry lobbyists were invited on to Today to say that food would run out and would need to be stockpiled or even rationed. Other BBC reports said there would be too much food and nowhere to store it. A deranged Newsnight report (with scary music to boot) claimed that ‘45,000 dairy cows could be culled’ in Northern Ireland as a result of No Deal. If the thought of thousands of cow carcasses didn’t spoil your appetite, Brexit would also ruin your chicken dinner. If the unfolding dystopia turned you to drink, Brexit would probably ruin that as well by changing the taste of whiskey (the BBC report ends with the quite important caveat that it wouldn’t actually change anything). If all that news made you feel really unwell, then No Deal was probably going to finish you off – the retired chief medical officer asserted on Today that Brexit would mean more ‘deaths’.

One of the BBC’s flagship politics show, Question Time, had an overwhelmingly pro-Remain bias. As shown on spiked earlier this year, overall there were two Remainers on the panel for every Leaver. When pro-Brexit guests were invited on to give their views elsewhere on the Beeb, it wasn’t pretty. In a debate about parliament blocking Brexit, Newsnight’s Emily Maitlis changed the subject to accuse Rod Liddle of peddling ‘constant casual racism’. ‘The bile that you spew up has to be who you are’, she said. A complaint from a member of the public that Maitlis was ‘sneering’ and ‘bullying’ was upheld.

Unable to get to grips with Brexit, journalists had to invent increasingly wacky theories to explain the public’s commitment to leaving the EU. The Observer’s Carole Cadwalladr has been pushing ever-more elaborate conspiracy theories about Brexit involving Cambridge Analytica, Russian money, Russian bots, Russian disinformation and Russia Today. Cadwalladr’s work talks of ‘dark forces’ out to ‘hijack’ democracy. It is littered with caveats like ‘we can’t be sure’ or ‘Is it true? Who knows?’, and with ‘questions’ that are always ‘swirling’. In 2019, Netflix produced a film based on her Alex Jones-style theories about Facebook controlling the sheeple’s minds. She was even nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. Sadly, she is now being sued by Brexit-backing businessman Arron Banks for her frequent insinuations that a covert, corrupt relationship with the Russian government is behind his support for Leave.


While the mass vote for Brexit continued to provoke hysteria some three years later, lots of journalists got overly excited about several Westminster bubble non-events. The arrival of The Independent Group (aka Change UK) on the political scene in February sent Remoaner journalists giddy as they breathlessly predicted that these no-mark MPs ‘could yet change politics’. ‘There is no reason this can’t succeed’, declared one prominent cheerleader. In June, during the Conservative leadership contest, all the polls said Boris Johnson was miles ahead, but the media were instead gripped by ‘Rorymania’. ‘The Tories have found a proper star’ in Rory Stewart, gushed ITV’s supposedly impartial Robert Peston. By the end of the year, Change UK could only contest three seats in the General Election – losing all three – while Rory Stewart is out of the Commons and out of the Conservative Party.

Broadcasters’ opinions often got the better of them. The head of Channel 4 News, Dorothy Byrne, made it known, in a major speech, that she thought prime minister Boris Johnson was a ‘coward’ and a ‘known liar’ and that she wanted her broadcasters to call him that. Such character judgements are not objective journalism. They are opinion, not news. During the election, Channel 4 clearly set out to influence the news agenda rather than report on it. It hosted the first-ever leaders’ debate on climate change, despite the fact that every man and his dog knew the election was really about Brexit. There was also no ‘debate’ to be seen, as none of the parties disagreed on the issue in any substantive way.

Social media gave political journalists ample opportunity to give us their unfiltered thoughts and takes. Peston, Sky’s Lewis Goodall and the BBC’s Emma Barnett presumably thought they were being extremely clever by hiding their views behind phrases like ‘Regardless of your political view’ or ‘Whatever you think about X’ before proceeding to instruct voters on how to feel about contentious issues.

While social media gave us an insight into the biases of broadcast journalists – whose work is supposed to be impartial – the need to get stories on to social media quickly also tripped up many journalists. During the election, ITV’s Peston and the BBC’s political editor, Laura Kuenssberg, both tweeted out fake news about a Tory aide being punched by a Labour activist. The police confirmed there had been no incident and video footage proved that beyond doubt. The fake stories were tweeted on the say-so of Tory sources – senior journalists never bothered to verify the truth.


The great irony was that after years of screeching and handwringing over Russian bots, dodgy tabloids and errant bloggers, 2019 confirmed that mainstream, ‘quality’ media outlets have now become the biggest source of nonsense in the land.

That nails the end of 2019. A year we are all glad to have seen passed. The year the masses started to wake up to wokeness

Imreoir2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Are you saying the BBC, pro EU BBC, bury the documentary on BBC4 BBC, edited this and it's not true?

The BBC version of the clip is entirely fine, putting the segment in question in the proper context of Mrs May trying to back out on the backstop.

The edited clip that was posted on this thread as "secret footage" takes away that context and tries to make it look like the conversation among EU officials was the EU's own plans for Ireland instead of their concerns at what they thought the UK were doing. Essentially it was a rather poor effort at blaiming the EU for what the UK was actually doing.

cryptocurrency

Imreoir2 wrote: »

The BBC version of the clip is entirely fine, putting the segment in question in the proper context of Mrs May trying to back out on the backstop.

The edited clip that was posted on this thread as "secret footage" takes away that context and tries to make it look like the conversation among EU officials was the EU's own plans for Ireland instead of their concerns at what they thought the UK were doing. Essentially it was a rather poor effort at blaiming the EU for what the UK was actually doing.

The BBC documentary was enough to turn anyone into a hard brexiteer. They come across a right odious bunch.

Guy Verhofstadt may be the most unlikable person in global politics.

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

with the current deal that won't happen. It is up to the EU how complicated it wants to make it for us in the future. The UK has no interest in anything but free flowing trade.

I've got news for you. Free flowing trade will be the first casualty of Brexit. The UK has chosen to become a third country and will be treated as such.

cryptocurrency

First Up wrote: »

I've got news for you. Free flowing trade will be the first casualty of Brexit. The UK has chosen to become a third country and will be treated as such.

And please enlighten us how you envison that status for the UK in the shadow of the mighty and unified EU :pac:

easypazz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The UK has no interest in anything but free flowing trade.

Jesus wept. They voted themselves out of the free flowing trade market that is the EU.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Which won't be the case after Brexit.

Why not? It makes no sense to change it.

cryptocurrency

easypazz wrote: »

Jesus wept. They voted themselves out of the free flowing trade market that is the EU.

It's actually quite restrictive and the EU are stickking their nose more and more into the members business where it is not wanted.

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's actually quite restrictive and the EU are stickking their nose more and more into the members business where it is not wanted.

How?
Please give examples.

Given the evidence availalbe now, what is the UK going to do with relation to European trade that is different from the current situation?

easypazz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's actually quite restrictive and the EU are stickking their nose more and more into the members business where it is not wanted.

:D

You are good for a laugh, I will give you that.

Irish Praetorian

cryptocurrency wrote: »

That nails the end of 2019. A year we are all glad to have seen passed. The year the masses started to wake up to wokeness

Yeah I've fairly mixed feelings about this; on the one hand people are starting to ask if getting their water from the well is the purest and cleanest they can get, which is in theory good. But the practical result seems to be people getting their water from the cesspit, the animal trough or the creek that the animals crap in.

I don't come to this debate from the same perspective as most people here, taking a more conservative view on quite a few positions. But guess what, this great shift to the right hasn't led to a mass adoption of the views of nuanced thinkers like Douglas Murray, it's led to people adopting the vapid nonsense of rags like the Daily Mail.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The BBC documentary was enough to turn anyone into a hard brexiteer. They come across a right odious bunch.

Guy Verhofstadt may be the most unlikable person in global politics.

I thought it reflected very well on them that they allowed the filmmakers such amazing access. Imagine that happening here. Not a hope. They came across pretty well, too, though I could have done without a topless Verhofstadt. It's simply unimaginable that the Brexiters would have allowed anything like that. Dominic Cummings would have come across like Nosferatu in a special Halloween-themed episode of The Thick of It.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The BBC documentary was enough to turn anyone into a hard brexiteer. They come across a right odious bunch.

Guy Verhofstadt may be the most unlikable person in global politics.

I've met him. He's not.

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

I thought it reflected very well on them that they allowed the filmmakers such amazing access. Imagine that happening here. Not a hope. They came across pretty well, too, though I could have done without a topless Verhofstadt. It's simply unimaginable that the Brexiters would have allowed anything like that. Dominic Cummings would have come across like Nosferatu in a special Halloween-themed episode of The Thick of It.

It really doesn't matter about your view of it or him, it was a disaster for the EU and the footage showed some very distrubing views.

The programme along must have sealed it for a couple of more million.

davedanon

How was it 'a disaster', exactly? The EU is sitting pretty in the catbird seat.

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

How was it 'a disaster', exactly? The EU is sitting pretty in the catbird seat.

We considering they don't want the Uk to leave and are on repeat saying it outwardly then the behind the scene cameras showing what they really planned to do with the backstop etc.. showed the UK people just how untrustworthy they are.

The show as a disaster as it was a massive boost to the leave side.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

We considering they don't want the Uk to leave and are on repeat saying it outwardly then the behind the scene cameras showing what they really planned to do with the backstop etc.. showed the UK people just how untrustworthy they are.

The show as a disaster as it was a massive boost to the leave side.

Yes, they didn't want them to leave. That was an entirely sensible position.

What they really planned to do with the backstop? You keep saying this, without providing any evidence. Where's the smoking gun? What does Barnier, or anyone, say that proves this contention? Give me an actual quote that you feel establishes this.

And lastly, the doc was screened this year. How could it be a 'massive boost to the Leave side'? The referendum was 3 years ago.

cryptocurrency

davedanon wrote: »

Yes, they didn't want them to leave. That was an entirely sensible position.

What they really planned to do with the backstop? You keep saying this, without providing any evidence. Where's the smoking gun? What does Barnier, or anyone, say that proves this contention? Give me an actual quote that you feel establishes this.

And lastly, the doc was screened this year. How could it be a 'massive boost to the Leave side'? The referendum was 3 years ago.

It boosted support for Boris.

Barnier admitted in it they would use rhe backstop and NI as leverage to keep the UK in the SM/CU

They don't care about Ireland otherwise.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It boosted support for Boris.

Barnier admitted in it they would use rhe backstop and NI as leverage to keep the UK in the SM/CU

They don't care about Ireland otherwise.

I doubt very many voters watched it. Boris didn't need any boost in support.

A quote. I asked for a quote, not your unsupported assertions.

The last has been shown to be demonstrably untrue.


You are a clown.

Junkyard Tom

Cryspycurranty is applying the Homer-Simpson-Boxing-strategy to the Brexit discussion. Let them keep punching you in the head until they're exhausted and then push them over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHTxOlFfUa0

J Mysterio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

https://dominiccummings.com/

Jobs here if anyone is interested

His most recent article on those who no.10 are looking to hire... it's so... confused. It's beyond laughable. Almost upsetting. It's the worst type of recruiter blurb/ job spec I think I have ever seen. It's at once attempting to be cutting edge and... Grunge? Student chic? They are looking for 'weirdo's', but 'from the best universities'. The project manager bit in particular is just so poorly written I can't quite beleive it. This lad may well be on heroin.

J Mysterio

I'm starting to think Cummings might be the greatest spy there ever was, almost single handedly destroying the UK in just a few years, and taking the absolute piss while doing it. Rubbishing all UK insitutions and actively bringing in the most bizarre people in the most ridiculous fashion to wreak the most damage. This stuff just cannot be serious, it's utterly lamentable. The fella is like the love child of Steve Jobs and the author of the Anarchist Cookbook: new age corporate speak intertwined with nihilistic nonsense. An absolute horror. It's all buzzwords, dodgy quotes and obscure articles - this apparently demonstrates some sort of competence and leadership.

cryptocurrency

J Mysterio wrote: »

I'm starting to think Cummings might be the greatest spy there ever was, almost single handedly destroying the UK in just a few years, and taking the absolute piss while doing it. Rubbishing all UK insitutions and actively bringing in the most bizarre people in the most ridiculous fashion to wreak the most damage. This stuff just cannot be serious, it's utterly lamentable. The fella is like the love child of Steve Jobs and the author of the Anarchist Cookbook: new age corporate speak intertwined with nihilistic nonsense. An absolute horror.

If you actually do think that then you are more lost then we thought

J Mysterio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If you actually do think that then you are more lost then we thought

Who is 'we'? Speak for yourself, for what that's worth (very little).

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

I'm starting to think Cummings might be the greatest spy there ever was, almost single handedly destroying the UK in just a few years, and taking the absolute piss while doing it. Rubbishing all UK insitutions and actively bringing in the most bizarre people in the most ridiculous fashion to wreak the most damage. This stuff just cannot be serious, it's utterly lamentable. The fella is like the love child of Steve Jobs and the author of the Anarchist Cookbook: new age corporate speak intertwined with nihilistic nonsense. An absolute horror. It's all buzzwords, dodgy quotes and obscure articles - this apparently demonstrates some sort of competence and leadership.

It's even worse than that... I'm pretty sure Dominic Cummings is actually cryptocurrency.

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

And please enlighten us how you envison that status for the UK in the shadow of the mighty and unified EU

Stagnation probably but its their problem.

SantaCruz

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It boosted support for Boris.

Barnier admitted in it they would use rhe backstop and NI as leverage to keep the UK in the SM/CU

They don't care about Ireland otherwise.

That's a lie. There's no point in talking to you at all. You can't reason with a fanatic or a fantasist.

cryptocurrency

SantaCruz wrote: »

That's a lie. There's no point in talking to you at all. You can't reason with a fanatic or a fantasist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS_4JXfDxaU

You are so brainwashed with the EU you refuse to accept anything.

You are hysterical as all those people who are now claiming today that because of an incident in Iraq over an Iranian military leader that this is WW3, the same who alos said brexit would have medicine shortages in the UK and the EU would stop supplies.

FrancieBrady

What should Ireland do now, having been instrumental in getting a deal that protects our interests as best as we can?

Do we sit back and allow what 'is about to happen' as it was put by one poster or is there proactive things we can do to mitigate the damage?

I am not really interested in what the UK wants us to do, more interested in what posters think we should do ourselves, for ourselves.