Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

First Up

FrancieBrady wrote:

The north is on a collision course with a decision on it's future and how much longer we on these islands can continue to fool ourselves. IMO the forward looking entities with regard to the north are those who want a full, frank and transparent conversation on what that future will look like.

No rush; there's enough to think about in the present without bringing the future into it. I'll be happy if the all-island economy prospers within EU/SM conditions. Let the political stuff wait.

knipex

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

What the actual rules are I have no idea or care even less.

Just the clarify

The rules suck. The UK will be sooo much better off without them. BUT you have no idea what the rules are and don't really care. BUT your informed.

Did I miss anything ?

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

But on that point what ever the rules the the UK can not be forced in anyway to buy stuff of any EU country after Brexit.........unless there is some agreement made.

That's not how it works either.
In or out of the EU you can trade with who you like. Indeed within the EU there are a significant number of trade deals you can take advantage of.

The only impact is the tarriff you pay or charge. (this is assuming the product you want to import into the EU meets safety and quality standards)

UK have said that they will ot impose tarriffs to ensure that they can continue to import products at no extra cost. So Irish suppliers can continue to supp,y to UK at in extra cost.

However the UK have said they will not enforce strict EU safety and quality standards, so its possible that Irish suppliers will be competing with low quality imports which would of course damage margins or cost then business.

Then EU on the other hand will unless a trade deal is reached charge WTO tariffs to imports from the UK and will insist that all imports meet their safety, quality and environmental standards.

knipex

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The world watched them punish Greece and Ireland, but you are off your head if you think that they could try it with the UK. The UK still has the pound, is a permanent member of the UN Security Council and is a daylight mile ahead of the rest of the EU as a a security force. Such efforts on the UK would spell the end of the EU. This isn't a game....there is lots of people in the UK who want to see the EU punished just for some of the tricks they tried on with May. There is zero tolerance out there for any more antics from the EU without some severe consequences for them.

Are you genuinely arguing that the EU will give the UK the deal they want "OR ELSE" as in millitary action ?

You do know it's no the 1840's or 50's and that the UK handed Hong Kong back to China ??

Tony EH

knipex wrote: »

However the UK have said they will not enforce strict EU safety and quality standards, so its possible that Irish suppliers will be competing with low quality imports...

In the end, this is all Brexit is about. The Business classes wanting to lower standards and quality. EU regulations on such things gall them.

54and56

Tony EH wrote: »

In the end, this is all Brexit is about. The Business classes wanting to lower standards and quality. EU regulations on such things gall them.

I don't understand. Why would businesses want to lower quality?

timetogo1

54and56 wrote: »

I don't understand. Why would businesses want to lower quality?

Cheaper goods. Sell more. Your staff might not be happy with reduced rights but you can replace them or they might be desperate and have no choice but to work for you.

Tony EH

54and56 wrote: »

I don't understand. Why would businesses want to lower quality?

Cheaper. The price remains the same, but the goods cost less and are of a lower quality. It's a particular problem where food is concerned and the EU have quite high standards regarding that.

Once out of the EU, Britain can import lower quality food for the masses. The likes of Jacob Reece Mogg won't have to worry about that though.

54and56

Tony EH wrote: »

Cheaper. The price remains the same, but the goods cost less and are of a lower quality. It's a particular problem where food is concerned and the EU have quite high standards regarding that.

Once out of the EU, Britain can import lower quality food for the masses. The likes of Jacob Reece Mogg won't have to worry about that though.

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

First Up

54and56 wrote:

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

Lets just say I'd be slow to visit any Chinese takeaways.

54and56

timetogo1 wrote: »

Cheaper goods. Sell more. Your staff might not be happy with reduced rights but you can replace them or they might be desperate and have no choice but to work for you.

Reducing the quality and price of the products you produce does not always result in increased sales. For many many categories of product customers prefer quality rather than lower prices.

First Up

knipex wrote:

That's not how it works either. In or out of the EU you can trade with who you like. Indeed within the EU there are a significant number of trade deals you can take advantage of.

Our bored friend has shown numerous times that he has no idea how international trade works. Trade "deals" do not oblige anyone to buy anything from anyone, nor do they prevent it; they simply create the conditions under which business is conducted across borders.

The ignorance of the brexit fans in here is on daily display but they plough on regardless.

timetogo1

54and56 wrote: »

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

Except the life of the chicken can be much lower quality which is fine if you don't care about animal welfare at all. Of course the pedantic argument I'll probably get is that we should all go vegetarian so, as raising any animal for food is a bad life for it.

timetogo1

54and56 wrote: »

Reducing the quality and price of the products you produce does not always result in increased sales. For many many categories of product customers prefer quality rather than lower prices.

And?

SantaCruz

knipex wrote: »

Are you genuinely arguing that the EU will give the UK the deal they want "OR ELSE" as in millitary action ?

You do know it's no the 1840's or 50's and that the UK handed Hong Kong back to China ??

But didn't you hear they have a seat on the SECURITY Council of the ALL-POWERFUL United Nations?

Woe betide anyone who crosses their path. Etc. etc.

Or something like that.

SantaCruz

54and56 wrote: »

(a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

I don't think this is correct at all.

The reason they are dipped in chlorine in the USA is due to unsanitary conditions in the abbatoir that spread faeces etc. everywhere. So the issue is with abbatoir/processing standards, not how the chicken was reared.

CelticRambler

54and56 wrote: »

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

See the USA for just about all the examples you could want: meat, poultry, fish and vegetables (especially salad), and processed foods, are a regular source of food-borne illness. The chlorine-washed chicken is simply a symbolic summary of dreadful standards throughout the process - animals' growth boosted with hormones and antibiotics; fruit and vegetables grown in fertilised deserts with no regard for the effect on depleted water tables or ground water contamination; exploitation of workers resulting in them being too tired/too resentful to pay proper attention to welfare and hygiene.

As in so many other ways, the average EU citizen goes about their daily life without even a passing thought for the army of (unelected! ) agents of the Union checking their food for biological and chemical contaminants every day of the year. As a veterinary inspector once said to me and others back in the 80s: "it's not surprising that there are more cases of BSE reported in Europe than in the States - we test more cattle in a day than they do in a year."

Veterinary surgeons were put on the UK's "critical shortage" list of professions back in April: who's going to check imports of meat and other animal products if there are no inspectors - some lad with a clipboard and a good sense of smell?

Donald Trump

CelticRambler wrote: »

Veterinary surgeons were put on the UK's "critical shortage" list of professions back in April: who's going to check imports of meat and other animal products if there are no inspectors - some lad with a clipboard and a good sense of smell?

Easy solution. They can just allow in more qualified veterinarian Eastern European immigrants to do the checking for them......oh wait

SantaCruz

Donald Trump wrote: »

Easy solution. They can just allow in more qualified veterinarian Eastern European immigrants to do the checking for them......oh wait

I can't wait to see the expression on the anti-immigrant Brexiters' faces when they discover that brown/Muslim immigration is going to increase to make up for the severe drop in EU immigration.

cryptocurrency

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Funding is virtually unlimited, with billions, if not trillions in savings within EU financial institutions, and with major institutions such as the ecb, eib, etc etc having the ability to effectively create money on tab, the funds are there.

Austerity, what a load of nonsense that one is, it's well proven how much damage it does to a society, both the uk and ourselves have experienced it.

Sure bro, just make magic money...except last time they decided to screw Ireland over instead..that was the option they picked and delivered

Padre_Pio

Tony EH wrote: »

In the end, this is all Brexit is about. The Business classes wanting to lower standards and quality. EU regulations on such things gall them.

But to export into the EU they need to conform to these standards. Australia, NZ, Japan, Canada and the US all have similar stringent standards.

Cheaper to build a really good thing and qualify it once, than a cheap thing and qualify it multiple times.

davedanon

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Sure bro, just make magic money...except last time they decided to screw Ireland over instead..that was the option they picked and delivered

You are conflating two entirely unrelated things. But congrats on another effective water-muddying exercise, comrade. How are things in St. Petersburg? That cramped office must be stinking with stale sweat and BO by now.


and before crypto winds himself up into a knot of righteous denial, I don't really think he's a Russian troll-farm operative. He just posts like one.

threeball

Raab coming out in support of the killing of Soleimani shows where the Brits are heading over the next while. Called to heel by Trump on every issue he requests or threats of no trade deals will be thrown about like confetti. Everyone they deal with from now on will be leveraging them but Trump will take the pi$$ entirely.

Padre_Pio

threeball wrote: »

Raab coming out in support of the killing of Soleimani shows where the Brits are heading over the next while. Called to heel by Trump on every issue he requests or threats of no trade deals will be thrown about like confetti. Everyone they deal with from now on will be leveraging them but Trump will take the pi$$ entirely.

That's just what they need now.

Another 15 year war in some far flung country with zero benefit.

Tony EH

54and56 wrote: »

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

Mogg was going on about importing beef from Australia. There's talk of importing beef from America. Both of which have much lower standards (much lower in he case of America) that the EU requirements.

Tony EH

54and56 wrote: »

Reducing the quality and price of the products you produce does not always result in increased sales. For many many categories of product customers prefer quality rather than lower prices.

It results in increased profit.

And sometimes it's the only game in town for a lot of people. The kind of people that can't get theirFoie gras specially flown in from France.

FrancieBrady

threeball wrote: »

Raab coming out in support of the killing of Soleimani shows where the Brits are heading over the next while. Called to heel by Trump on every issue he requests or threats of no trade deals will be thrown about like confetti. Everyone they deal with from now on will be leveraging them but Trump will take the pi$$ entirely.

They long ago set their sights on riding shotgun for the US. Who would tolerate them lording it on the high seas had they not the seal of approval from Washington.
They have to hitch the wagon to someone and they have all done it since the Empire began to disappear - 'special relationships'.

Tony EH

threeball wrote: »

Raab coming out in support of the killing of Soleimani shows where the Brits are heading over the next while. Called to heel by Trump on every issue he requests or threats of no trade deals will be thrown about like confetti. Everyone they deal with from now on will be leveraging them but Trump will take the pi$$ entirely.

This is the gas thing about Brexit. It's taking a country out of a trading PARTNERSHIP and desperately throwing it to the likes of Donald Trump, who's "art" of dealing is to screw as much out of the other guy as possible. Disaster capitalists in England have thrown the country under the bus in pursuit of an ill thought out vanity project.

And I say that as a mild Euro sceptic myself. I have numerous problems with how the EU is run currently, as do most people. But the idea of extracting oneself from a fully functioning trade zone that benefits the vast majority, because you don't like a few regulations, and merely hoping (because that's all there is) that you can get some sort of a deal that isn't excruciating is bizarre to say the least.

threeball

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They long ago set their sights on riding shotgun for the US. Who would tolerate them lording it on the high seas had they not the seal of approval from Washington.
They have to hitch the wagon to someone and they have all done it since the Empire began to disappear - 'special relationships'.

Yes but they were were like America's little brother. They'd make an ass out of them but they still had a bit of respect for them. Now they're the homeless beggar at the end of the street that get thrown a fiver whenever the yanks feel generous or could be asked to dance for their money if the mood takes them.

Tony EH

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They long ago set their sights on riding shotgun for the US. Who would tolerate them lording it on the high seas had they not the seal of approval from Washington.
They have to hitch the wagon to someone and they have all done it since the Empire began to disappear - 'special relationships'.

They've been playing second fiddle to the US since the end of the Second World War, where they foolishly bankrupted themselves and destroyed their empire. Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people in England that still think in Imperial terms and think that their country is still a mighty player on the world stage, despite the fact that she has long since been just a tool for America in global concerns.

CelticRambler

Tony EH wrote: »

Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people in England that still think in Imperial terms ...

... free to think again in terms of pints and ounces and Fahrenheit. No more of that ridiculous European metric nonsense! :pac:

(except, of course, when they want to sell us any of their stuff and have to label it accordingly)