Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

fly_agaric

knipex wrote: »

Are you genuinely arguing that the EU will give the UK the deal they want "OR ELSE" as in millitary action ?

Shows the ultimate bankruptcy of the Brexit cheerleaders' arguments.

If "we" don't get the trade deal we want from the EU, the "wronged" UK should then begin to bully and threaten all its neighbours and former allies like a damp Turkey or Russia in the Atlantic. What a bright, new future for us all...except I'm feeling some deja-vu.

A bit cryptofascist if I may say so.

Kidchameleon

For anyone who finds themselves in London on Brexit day, you might be interested in attending the celebrations.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/nigel-farage-january-31st-brexit-party-1-6450978


"Richard Tice and Nigel Farage from the Brexit Party have applied to the Greater London Assembly - which licenses events in the area - to host an event on January 31st which could involve bands, comedians and fireworks."


Unfortunately I have a project deadline the week after so will definitely not be there but thought I'd throw it up here in case anyone is interested in attending & being part of history.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

For anyone who finds themselves in London on Brexit day, you might be interested in attending the celebrations.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/nigel-farage-january-31st-brexit-party-1-6450978


"Richard Tice and Nigel Farage from the Brexit Party have applied to the Greater London Assembly - which licenses events in the area - to host an event on January 31st which could involve bands, comedians and fireworks."


Unfortunately I have a project deadline the week after so will definitely not be there but thought I'd throw it up here in case anyone is interested in attending & being part of history.

Why would an Irish person be interested in attending such an event other than having a first hand look at turkeys celebrating Christmas?

Get Real

54and56 wrote: »

Apart from chlorinated chicken which isn't necessarily lower quality (a free reached chicken dipped in chlorine is higher quality than an undipped battery chicken) what lower quality food importation will Brexit facilitate?

Whether the following is lower quality or not, I don't know, I just know which products I'd prefer to be eating: (note products are not by any means superfoods/healthy, but general run of the mill consumer goods)

McDonald's Chips EU: potatoes, vegetable oil (cooked in), dextrose, salt after cooking.

McDonalds Chips US: potatoes, vegetable oil, beef flavouring, dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate, dimethylpolysiloxane, salt after cooking.

Quaker summer fruits EU: rolled oats, sugar, dried strawberries, dried raspberries.

Quaker strawberries and cream US: rolled oats, sugar, maltodextrin, palm oil, sunflower oil, artificial strawberry flavour, Red 40, salt, pyridoxine hydrochloride.

Mountain dew EU: carbonated water, sugar, citric acid, ascorbic acid, caffeine, flavourings, potassium sorbate, gum arabic, colour.

Mountain dew US: carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup, concentrated orange juice, citric acid, natural flavour, sodium benzoate, caffeine, sodium citrate, erythorbic acid, gum arabic, calcium dissodium EDTA, vegetable oil.

Heinz tomato ketchup EU: tomatoes, vinegar, sugar, salt, spices.

Heinz tomato ketchup US: tomato concentrate, vinegar, high fructose corn syrup, salt, spice, onion flavour.

Frosties cereal in the US uses BHT, a chemical that is banned for use in the EU in cereals. Now I'm not saying it is or isn't dangerous, but it's something present in US foods that isn't here.

Again, some items above may be banned, or may not be banned in EU, but a running trend is the larger list of ingredients for US foods and chemicals used. I know chemicals are used in EU, but I know I'd like the use of less. Lax rules lead to things creeping in and becoming the norm.

Eric Cartman

some of the food or NHS selling scaremongering is ridiculous. People in the UK can read, chlorinated chicken, high fructose corn syrup etc... wont be entering the diets of the vast majority. Mcdonalds or iceland might pull a switch hoping the poor wont care but the PR nightmare is likely to keep all of this away. Also the conservatives have absolutely no plans to sell off the NHS.

Jizique

Eric Cartman wrote: »

some of the food or NHS selling scaremongering is ridiculous. People in the UK can read, chlorinated chicken, high fructose corn syrup etc... wont be entering the diets of the vast majority. Mcdonalds or iceland might pull a switch hoping the poor wont care but the PR nightmare is likely to keep all of this away. Also the conservatives have absolutely no plans to sell off the NHS.

Food won’t be labeled as it currently is.

Eric Cartman

Jizique wrote: »

Food won’t be labeled as it currently is.

there is firstly no evidence for that in the slightest. Secondly how do you propose they'll remove the ingredients off food labels (which everyone is just used to at this moment in time) and nobody will care or notice...

As again, PR nightmare, heinz decide to sneak in HFCS and take the ingredients off the label and all of a sudden you have branston saying 'well we still have ingredients and didnt put any of that in, buy our ketchup' and most people likely would.

CelticRambler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

some of the food or NHS selling scaremongering is ridiculous. People in the UK can read ...

Perhaps they can, but as a rule, customers don't read beyond the promo flash on the packet. Anyone who voted for Brexit on the grounds of being able to have a blue passport is likely to be swayed by a meaningless "Made in Britain" slogan splatted over a Union Jack, regardless of where the chicken has come from. It won't be McDonald's feeding crap to the public, it'll be Associated British Foods' (sub-)contracted suppliers and the like.

Eric Cartman

CelticRambler wrote: »

Perhaps they can, but as a rule, customers don't read beyond the promo flash on the packet. Anyone who voted for Brexit on the grounds of being able to have a blue passport is likely to be swayed by a meaningless "Made in Britain" slogan splatted over a Union Jack, regardless of where the chicken has come from. It won't be McDonald's feeding crap to the public, it'll be Associated British Foods' (sub-)contracted suppliers and the like.

there is no evidence for this though, why would they do it, why would their competitors not expose this , why would advertising standards rules which are not controlled by the EU at present be changed, why would ingredients be removed off food labels.....

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there is firstly no evidence for that in the slightest. Secondly how do you propose they'll remove the ingredients off food labels (which everyone is just used to at this moment in time) and nobody will care or notice...

As again, PR nightmare, heinz decide to sneak in HFCS and take the ingredients off the label and all of a sudden you have branston saying 'well we still have ingredients and didnt put any of that in, buy our ketchup' and most people likely would.

Ha ha ha,,,corporate entities won't take the easy route to more profits??

If others are scaremongering you are just handwaving away genuine concerns.

CelticRambler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there is no evidence for this though, why would they do it, why would their competitors not expose this , why would advertising standards rules which are not controlled by the EU at present be changed, why would ingredients be removed off food labels.....

There's plenty of evidence for it - it's part and parcel of standard marketing practice. That's why the EU has already insisted on when, for example, you can use the term "strawberry flavoured" or claim that your product was "made in [insert local country here]"

Besides, this idea that "ingredients" will suddenly disappear off the packaging is typical Brexit "fake news". No-one is suggesting that that'll happen - there's no question of all those supply chains and packaging being re-designed overnight on the 31st Jan/1st Feb. What we have been told is that the UK will initially maintain its alignment with EU standards, but reserves the right to deviate whenever it wants. In the absence of a requirement to continue this alignment indefinitely as part of a FTA, therefore, any changes will be gradual step-by-step drift from what's permitted/required by the EU. No-one in GB will notice.

SantaCruz

Jizique wrote: »

Food won’t be labeled as it currently is.

Yes, I wonder where people think the rules on food labelling came from.

https://www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/food_information_fic/food_information-fic.html

The naivety is touching.

Eric Cartman

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha ha,,,corporate entities won't take the easy route to more profits??

If others are scaremongering you are just handwaving away genuine concerns.

Firstly the dynamics of why some of these ingredients are used in the US are different (a preference for different, sweeter flavours, more sugar, demand vs manufacturing plant size etc...) and the 'increase' in profits by changing it ensure its pretty much worthless.

Even with any kind of deviation in food labeling standards of whatever people want to insist, there will still be a massive market for the food available as presently consumed with its ingredients intact. Just like hersheys american chocolate is available in the UK but theyre still mad for cadbury's , you can introduce all the products you like, doesnt mean local tastes or preferences for them being HFCS free etc.. will change.

I can go and buy utterly crap british water pumped chicken here in Ireland, I don't , I go to my butcher who sells a better product, now theres no label to tell me that the chicken im getting is much better but I can taste it and having spoken to the butcher about where the chicken comes from Im assured of its quality, low food miles and production standard.

Eric Cartman

SantaCruz wrote: »

Yes, I wonder where people think the rules on food labelling came from.

https://www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/food_information_fic/food_information-fic.html

The naivety is touching.

there were food labeling rules pre the 2011 unifying directive...

the FDA in america mandated it in 1906....

SantaCruz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there were food labeling rules pre the 2011 unifying directive...

And there will be rules post Brexit.

But you would be very trusting indeed to think that the Tories won't be swayed by lobbyists or the libertarian instincts of the right of the party to shape these rules to whatever business wants to make it easier to make money.

Eric Cartman

SantaCruz wrote: »

And there will be rules post Brexit.

But you would be very trusting indeed to think that the Tories won't be swayed by lobbyists or the libertarian instincts of the right of the party to shape these rules to whatever business wants to make it easier to make money.

I really think youre both overestimating the gains to manufacturers, the naivety of the british public with regard to taste or quality and how big a shield you think the EU has been holding up against bad actors in the food sector.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Firstly the dynamics of why some of these ingredients are used in the US are different (a preference for different, sweeter flavours, more sugar, demand vs manufacturing plant size etc...) and the 'increase' in profits by changing it ensure its pretty much worthless.

Even with any kind of deviation in food labeling standards of whatever people want to insist, there will still be a massive market for the food available as presently consumed with its ingredients intact. Just like hersheys american chocolate is available in the UK but theyre still mad for cadbury's , you can introduce all the products you like, doesnt mean local tastes or preferences for them being HFCS free etc.. will change.

I can go and buy utterly crap british water pumped chicken here in Ireland, I don't , I go to my butcher who sells a better product, now theres no label to tell me that the chicken im getting is much better but I can taste it and having spoken to the butcher about where the chicken comes from Im assured of its quality, low food miles and production standard.

Once upon a not too distant time there was no such thing as McDonald's or fast food...make it cheap enough diets will change.

SantaCruz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I really think youre both overestimating the gains to manufacturers, the naivety of the british public with regard to taste or quality and how big a shield you think the EU has been holding up against bad actors in the food sector.

It really doesn't take much work to find evidence of the hostility towards regulation.

Brexit boost: Boris Johnson's 'Bonfire of redtape' to give huge contracts to small firms

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1200080/brexit-news-boris-johnson-eu-exit-latest-oliver-dowden-conservatives-general-election-2019

I'm sure a bit of searching (if you are interested) will turn up lots of this stuff from lobby groups, think tanks, actual politicians, etc.

Eric Cartman

SantaCruz wrote: »

It really doesn't take much work to find evidence of the hostility towards regulation.



https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1200080/brexit-news-boris-johnson-eu-exit-latest-oliver-dowden-conservatives-general-election-2019

I'm sure a bit of searching (if you are interested) will turn up lots of this stuff from lobby groups, think tanks, actual politicians, etc.

you took an article from the daily express....about him cutting red tape for small businesses to get government contracts....to back up that companies will start selling food which has american crap ingredients in it....

CelticRambler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I really think youre both overestimating the gains to manufacturers, the naivety of the british public with regard to taste or quality ...

I think you're seriously underestimating how easily the British public (and consumers in other countries) can be manipulated. Naivety doesn't come into it ... but savings of as little as a fraction of a cent per unit do - for manufacturers. Something tells me you don't have a lot of experience working within the consumer/marketing industry.

Spanish Eyes

CelticRambler wrote: »

Perhaps they can, but as a rule, customers don't read beyond the promo flash on the packet. Anyone who voted for Brexit on the grounds of being able to have a blue passport is likely to be swayed by a meaningless "Made in Britain" slogan splatted over a Union Jack, regardless of where the chicken has come from. It won't be McDonald's feeding crap to the public, it'll be Associated British Foods' (sub-)contracted suppliers and the like.

Agree. But to be fair, most (not all now) people, Brexiteer or not, just pick up a pack of stuff in the supermarket and go to the checkout and cook and eat it.

Up to now it has been (for Britain) under EU regulations.

But I think price is a big thing for many in Britain now, and maybe they will go for the lowest common denominator. As they are doing now anyway, outside of the wealthy areas who can afford to discriminate.

timetogo1

Same for all the fast food places, restaurants, catering companies etc. They don't have food labels and a lot of their stuff comes down to price.
The Brexiters will probably get cheaper foods in Wetherspoons so theyll be happy

sosndt

Don't forget what miserable gits the Brits are. If something is cheap they will buy it no matter how crap it is.
Have you ever eaten in England?
The food is horrendous.

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

... free to think again in terms of pints and ounces and Fahrenheit. No more of that ridiculous European metric nonsense! :pac:

(except, of course, when they want to sell us any of their stuff and have to label it accordingly)

I`m just nipping out for a quick half a litre does`nt have the same ring as I`m just nipping out for a quick pint.

Padre_Pio

SantaCruz wrote: »

It really doesn't take much work to find evidence of the hostility towards regulation.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1200080/brexit-news-boris-johnson-eu-exit-latest-oliver-dowden-conservatives-general-election-2019

I'm sure a bit of searching (if you are interested) will turn up lots of this stuff from lobby groups, think tanks, actual politicians, etc.

Potentially.
Should
May.

Nothing concrete there at all.

SantaCruz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you took an article from the daily express....about him cutting red tape for small businesses to get government contracts....to back up that companies will start selling food which has american crap ingredients in it....

To back up a claim that regulations will be cut - here is the clue:

It really doesn't take much work to find evidence of the hostility towards regulation.

I was looking after a 2-year old when I posted that, but you seem to be a single gentleman for some reason, so I'm sure you'll have time to inform yourself as to whether the current regime will be interested or pushed in cutting regulations of all sorts. I've formed my opinion already based on my own research.

Eric Cartman

SantaCruz wrote: »

To back up a claim that regulations will be cut - here is the clue:


I was looking after a 2-year old when I posted that, but you seem to be a single gentleman for some reason, so I'm sure you'll have time to inform yourself as to whether the current regime will be interested or pushed in cutting regulations of all sorts. I've formed my opinion already based on my own research.

ok and can you just explain to me the jump between articles expressing a desire to cut regulation on small businesses accessing government contracts and a direct assertion that food ingredients from the US will be allowed in and regulations on food labeling decimated.

SantaCruz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok and can you just explain to me the jump between articles expressing a desire to cut regulation on small businesses accessing government contracts and a direct assertion that food ingredients from the US will be allowed in and regulations on food labeling decimated.

Here is the clue:

It really doesn't take much work to find evidence of the hostility towards regulation.

RobMc59

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok and can you just explain to me the jump between articles expressing a desire to cut regulation on small businesses accessing government contracts and a direct assertion that food ingredients from the US will be allowed in and regulations on food labeling decimated.

I`m British and only look at the express brexit articles for comedy value because no one takes that rag seriously!..Do they??:pac:

Eric Cartman

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m British and only look at the express brexit articles for comedy value because no one takes that rag seriously!..Do they??:pac:

when it suits an agenda to pretend that brexit going ahead is going to mean everyone eating chlorinated chicken and having ketchup made of corn then they do....

funny thing is high fructose corn syrup isn't illegal in the EU , and chlorine washed bagged salads are on our supermarket shelves , but ofcourse everyone will completely go mad after brexit.