Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

cryptocurrency

RasTa wrote: »

Well their chancellor doesn't have a clue how the Japanese sell their cars to the EU so maybe someone needs to tell them.

reach out to dominic cummings for a job

cryptocurrency

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What do you think will be manufactured in the UK? What will they be world leaders in that will have everyone clamouring to buy their goods?

same as now, financial products

ambro25

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Mr Javid told the Financial Times: “There will not be alignment, we will not be a rule-taker, we will not be in the single market and we will not be in the customs union - and we will do this by the end of the year."

Now then, where is the big boy talk from the EU now

"No alignment" means an end to mutual recognition of procedures, standards, protections, qualifications, ECJ interpretation and assorted other vectors of trading homogeneity. Which, in very simple terms, means no more data sharing, and the same NTBs for UK services as for all non-EEA trading partners (at a minimum, assuming some goodwill in the eventual FTA in respect of some services (not financial ones) and that this FTA gets ratified by end 2020).

Javid just confirmed -a little bit more- with that pronouncement, what British service sector professionals have long feared, and EU27 service sector professionals have long prepped for: an abrupt end to the export of UK services to the EU27. It's a somewhat more eloquent repeat of Johnson's "f*** business" of auld.

If it's a bluff, it's about as useful as May's Lancaster red lines, and simply creating still more -adverse- uncertainty for the British business world and all involved in it at home or abroad.

If it's not a bluff, guess what happens to the service demand on the EU7 side, unfulfillable by UK providers? Do you think it's going to magically disappear?

"Big boy talk"? The EU27 service sector says "thanks for the free business"

cryptocurrency wrote: »

same as now, financial products

And, without alignment, these will be sold to EU27 customers how, pray tell?

Without alignment, no mutual recognition, nor any equivalence (the best you can hope for - at the EU's sufferance, cancellable at short notice). And we already know well, that equivalence simply cannot cut it for maintaining the City's competitivity relative to other major EU and 3rd party financial hubs, nor the Exchequer in tax receipts.

Timberrrrrrrr

cryptocurrency wrote: »

same as now, financial products

So that's a few thousand people in London sorted, what about the rest of the country?

cryptocurrency

ambro25 wrote: »

"No alignment" means an end to mutual recognition of procedures, standards, protections, qualifications, ECJ interpretation and assorted other vectors of trading homogeneity. Which, in very simple terms, means no more data sharing, and the same NTBs for UK services as for all non-EEA trading partners (at a minimum, assuming some goodwill in the eventual FTA in respect of some services (not financial ones) and that this FTA gets ratified by end 2020).

Javid just confirmed -a little bit more- with that pronouncement, what British service sector professionals have long feared, and EU27 service sector professionals have long prepped for: an abrupt end to the export of UK services to the EU27. It's a somewhat more eloquent repeat of Johnson's "f*** business" of auld.

Now, guess what happens to the service demand on the EU7 side, unfulfillable by UK providers? Do you think it's going to magically disappear?

"Big boy talk"? The EU27 service sector says "thanks for the free business"

EDIT: and as if on cue, just received an email from a UK practice group-managing partner this morning, requesting me to urgently join the practice group so that it benefits from at least 1 EU attorney (they're all losing their EU attorney badge and EU rights of audience this year). Mmmm. Gonna ponder how many more zeroes on my € paycheck.
And, without alignment, they're going to sell these to EU27 customers how, pray tell?

Equivalence (the best you can hope for - at the EU's sufferance, cancellable at short notice) cannot cut it for maintaining the City's competitivity and the Exchequer in tax receipts. Long debated and documented already.

I am sure they have thought this through. They know the EU can't replace the city, only idiots think they can. As for data sharing, the EU needs to UK and US to share data with them, not the other way around.

I am sure the 5 eyes have access to everything they want, just the agreement with the EU means they are all being open about it.

Stop defending the tin pot club like they have a leg to stand on.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Mr Javid told the Financial Times: “There will not be alignment, we will not be a rule-taker, we will not be in the single market and we will not be in the customs union - and we will do this by the end of the year."

Now then, where is the big boy talk from the EU now

Mr Javid says a lot of things.


"I’m a Eurosceptic and proud of it. I think the Euro is a bad idea. I have no time for ever-closer union and I’ve long been a vocal critic of Brussels’ worst excesses.

But, just like Bank of England Governor Mark Carney and IMF head Christine Lagarde, I still believe that Britain is better off in. And that’s all because of the Single Market.

It’s a great invention, one that even Lady Thatcher campaigned enthusiastically to create.

The world’s largest economic bloc, it gives every business in Britain access to 500 million customers with no barriers, no tariffs and no local legislation to worry about.

It’s no surprise that nearly half of our exports go to other EU nations, exports that are linked to three million jobs here in the UK. And as an EU member we also have preferential access to more than 50 other international markets from Mexico to Montenegro, helping us to export £50 billion of goods and services to them every year."


"Of course, the Brexit camp say we don’t have to be a member of the EU to benefit from all this.

That, should we vote to leave, Brussels would instantly offer us full and easy access to the Single Market and influence over regulations. All the good stuff, none of the bad.

It sounds like a no-brainer. But it’s just not realistic."


"Today, almost 80 per cent of British jobs are part of the service sector – everything from that TV company to pensions to education.

It’s a sector with exports of £226 billion, nearly half of which go to Europe. But of the trade agreements the EU has with more than 50 countries around the world, not one gives service industries the same level of guaranteed access as the Single Market. Not one.

And this isn’t just an EU problem – the biggest free trade agreement in the world, NAFTA, doesn’t come close either. No free trade agreement does. And that's because services are complex and highly regulated."


"Unless the exporting country submits to the importing country’s rules and local regulator, access will be denied. Maybe the EU will break the habit of a lifetime and come up with something new just for us.

But I wouldn’t want to bet the jobs of millions of British workers on it."


https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

Mr Javid says a lot of things.


"I’m a Eurosceptic and proud of it. I think the Euro is a bad idea. I have no time for ever-closer union and I’ve long been a vocal critic of Brussels’ worst excesses.

But, just like Bank of England Governor Mark Carney and IMF head Christine Lagarde, I still believe that Britain is better off in. And that’s all because of the Single Market.

It’s a great invention, one that even Lady Thatcher campaigned enthusiastically to create.

The world’s largest economic bloc, it gives every business in Britain access to 500 million customers with no barriers, no tariffs and no local legislation to worry about.

It’s no surprise that nearly half of our exports go to other EU nations, exports that are linked to three million jobs here in the UK. And as an EU member we also have preferential access to more than 50 other international markets from Mexico to Montenegro, helping us to export £50 billion of goods and services to them every year."


"Of course, the Brexit camp say we don’t have to be a member of the EU to benefit from all this.

That, should we vote to leave, Brussels would instantly offer us full and easy access to the Single Market and influence over regulations. All the good stuff, none of the bad.

It sounds like a no-brainer. But it’s just not realistic."


"Today, almost 80 per cent of British jobs are part of the service sector – everything from that TV company to pensions to education.

It’s a sector with exports of £226 billion, nearly half of which go to Europe. But of the trade agreements the EU has with more than 50 countries around the world, not one gives service industries the same level of guaranteed access as the Single Market. Not one.

And this isn’t just an EU problem – the biggest free trade agreement in the world, NAFTA, doesn’t come close either. No free trade agreement does. And that's because services are complex and highly regulated."


"Unless the exporting country submits to the importing country’s rules and local regulator, access will be denied. Maybe the EU will break the habit of a lifetime and come up with something new just for us.

But I wouldn’t want to bet the jobs of millions of British workers on it."


https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

before the vote. Anyone with a brain, and access to the information of what has happened since now knows the EU is a very bad thing.

He is right to have awoken, Javid is now "woke"

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

before the vote. Anyone with a brain, and access to the information of what has happened since now knows the EU is a very bad thing.

He is right to have awoken, Javid is now "woke"

So bad that he is now willing to risk millions of British jobs. I don't understand how it's so bad, it's worth that.

ambro25

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I am sure they have thought this through. They know the EU can't replace the city, only idiots think they can. As for data sharing, the EU needs to UK and US to share data with them, not the other way around.

I am sure the 5 eyes have access to everything they want, just the agreement with the EU means they are all being open about it.

Stop defending the tin pot club like they have a leg to stand on.

How does a security agreement like 5 eyes benefit your average City-based asset manager, or his clients, exactly?

Are MI5, MI6 or GCHQ selling data to Goldman Sachs, HSBC, UBS, RBS, <…> these days?

Never mind subscribing to a complex derivative product, you tried opening even a simple checking account in EU-FTA'd Canada or Japan from <wherever you are in the UK or IE> lately?

I'm not defending anything: I'm pointing you to the practical trading and fiscal consequences of Javid's proposed policy for the UK.

Now feel free to keep drinking the cool aid, or to start thinking about choices and consequences logically, based on known quantities (basic legal principles underpinning the functioning of the EU/SM/CU, and the objective and factual comparability of EU-FTA'd developed economies with the UK post-Brexit, to start with).

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

So bad that he is now willing to risk millions of British jobs. I don't understand how it's so bad, it's worth that.

and when nothing bad happens they will be moving forward......and you will be looking for the next thing to get hysterical about.

Nothing is worth that.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I am sure they have thought this through. They know the EU can't replace the city, only idiots think they can. As for data sharing, the EU needs to UK and US to share data with them, not the other way around.

I am sure the 5 eyes have access to everything they want, just the agreement with the EU means they are all being open about it.

Stop defending the tin pot club like they have a leg to stand on.

How long did you work in the City for yourself? Were you wheeling and dealing on the international capital markets yourself?

And given that you are so assured that UK holds all the card, then why did they not just walk away and say "those are the terms, take it or leave it"? Was it because Theresa May was a "Remainer"? And then Boris Johnson was also a "Remainer". Or maybe they were just being generous to the thickos in the EU and feeling a bit guilty for abandoning them to their doom?

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

How long did you work in the City for yourself? Were you wheeling and dealing on the international capital markets yourself?

And given that you are so assured that UK holds all the card, then why did they not just walk away and say "those are the terms, take it or leave it"? Was it because Theresa May was a "Remainer"? And then Boris Johnson was also a "Remainer". Or maybe they were just being generous to the thickos in the EU and feeling a bit guilty for abandoning them to their doom?

They are trying to maintain a civil working relationship. They have not bullishly walked away, they did a dance with May and the EU for a few years and now has the UK thinking the EU are utter d""ks, whihc is a result.

The new house of commens has five years to do what they like and if you are gonna introduce a shock doctorine into a county to develop rapid change you front load it. This is 101 stuff.

UK will walk this year, be fine by next year and it will be old news by 2023.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

and when nothing bad happens they will be moving forward......and you will be looking for the next thing to get hysterical about.

Nothing is worth that.

"nothing bad happens"

Do you understand what absolute statements are and why they should be avoided? If even one bad thing happens, you are wrong.

In the politics forum, a poster living in the UK has been notified that his beer won't be shipped from Germany after the end of January. So now there is someone without beer, and that is a bad thing.

So you're wrong.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

and now has the UK thinking the EU are utter d""ks, whihc is a result.

Ah yes, I remember all the talk from the UK politicians and commentators, especially those of the Brexit persuasion, talking about how sound the EU were before the idiotic EU were suddenly and surprisingly dicks to them during the negotiations.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

"nothing bad happens"

Do you understand what absolute statements are and why they should be avoided? If even one bad thing happens, you are wrong.

In the politics forum, a poster living in the UK has been notified that his beer won't be shipped from Germany after the end of January. So now there is someone without beer, and that is a bad thing.

So you're wrong.

He lives in the UK, why does he need german beer? UK beer is much better.

Can he get shipped a palate

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah yes, I remember all the talk from the UK politicians and commentators, especially those of the Brexit persuasion, talking about how sound the EU were before the idiotic EU were suddenly and surprisingly dicks to them during the negotiations.

to have swung public opinion against the EU is a fine thing indeed.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

He lives in the UK, why does he need german beer? UK beer is much better.

Can he get shipped a palate

He might be in need of a new palate alright is he thinks that the average UK pisswater tastes grand

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

He might be in need of a new palate alright is he thinks that the average UK pisswater tastes grand

thanks for the spelling update.

Only chavs drink lager

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

to have swung public opinion against the EU is a fine thing indeed.

It's a bit mad that in all the years they were in the EU, even though they were trying to get out of it, they didn't try to blame them or swing public opinion against them.

They should have at least tried a few headlines about the EU stealing their bendy bananas or suchlike

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

thanks for the spelling update.

Only chavs drink lager

Back to my other question, why are the UK still there, given that they are paying in for the time they are there. Why have they capitulated twice already? They will likely also capitulate again in Dec.

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

Back to my other question, why are the UK still there, given that they are paying in for the time they are there. Why have they capitulated twice already? They will likely also capitulate again in Dec.

May and the remainer parliment bottled it. Boris and Cummings and Javid know that the mandate in the election is clear and they can't ever go back on the statements being made now. The whole future of the Tory party rests on it.

They will walk this year and as Javid says, no SM, no CU, no alignment

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

May and the remainer parliment bottled it. Boris and Cummings and Javid know that the mandate in the election is clear and they can't ever go back on the statements being made now. The whole future of the Tory party rests on it.

They will walk this year and as Javid says, no SM, no CU, no alignment

How is it that all these people, with access to all their professional advisors and civil servants, don't know as much as you do to be as certain as you are? Are their advisors and civil servants just complete spastics?

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

May and the remainer parliment bottled it. Boris and Cummings and Javid know that the mandate in the election is clear and they can't ever go back on the statements being made now. The whole future of the Tory party rests on it.

They will walk this year and as Javid says, no SM, no CU, no alignment

And to be clear, you believe nothing bad will happen at all if they walk away with no SM, CU, or alignment? Nothing.

RasTa

Deleted User wrote: »

"nothing bad happens"

Do you understand what absolute statements are and why they should be avoided? If even one bad thing happens, you are wrong.

In the politics forum, a poster living in the UK has been notified that his beer won't be shipped from Germany after the end of January. So now there is someone without beer, and that is a bad thing.

So you're wrong.

What site he using to get German stuff?

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

How is it that all these people, with access to all their professional advisors and civil servants, don't know as much as you do to be as certain as you are? Are their advisors and civil servants just complete spastics?

i think it is the opposite. They advisors see it as i do and the civil servants see life as you do.

The EU is a socialist project, civil servants love that.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

i think it is the opposite. They advisors see it as i do and the civil servants see life as you do.

The EU is a socialist project, civil servants love that.

So the UK politicians maybe just don't have the balls to do the right thing even though it is obvious. Would that be a logical conclusion?

That wouldn't bode too well for the future of the UK either would it?

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

So the UK politicians maybe just don't have the balls to do the right thing even though it is obvious. Would that be a logical conclusion?

That wouldn't bode too well for the future of the UK either would it?

oh they do. this is just the start of the shake up. The civil service is next

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

oh they do. this is just the start of the shake up. The civil service is next

Well a good few UK public servants might be losing their jobs over the next few years, but probably not for the reasons you envisage.

Timberrrrrrrr

cryptocurrency wrote: »

He lives in the UK, why does he need german beer? UK beer is much better.

Can he get shipped a palate

It is in its shìte

cryptocurrency

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It is in its shìte

lager drinker obviously