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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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    #1052
    ambro25
    Registered Users Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have nothing against a plebiscite of the people.
    What I am against is a party trying to hide from the people and calling an election only when they have the best chance of winning it, and don't have front and centre the wishes of the people.

    On this issue therefore a referendum comes first, because there isn't a single person on the planet who knows what the UK people want.
    On the one hand, assuming Johnson gets his feet into no.10, that effectively puts one of main architects of Brexit in charge of it: no more blaming closet remainers and other insufficient beliefs.

    On the other, given the current domestic voting patterns in the UK, a GE under the FPTP would be any party's game, but certainly not a surefire win/outright majority for the Tories.

    Which makes a referendum a nice enough way out for Johnson, caught between the rock of his electoral promises and the hard place of the 31st October deadline. Yes, he'd be getting a ton of flak over it from the Tory Eurosceptics who put him where he is. But would that automatically translate into his removal from office? I wouldn't be so sure: the population is arguably still very divided over Brexit (a 'remain' result is anything but garanteed), so he could well manage to make enough political capital with either outcome.


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    #1053
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    blinding wrote: »
    Is there actually much demand for another Independence Referendum in Scotland . Didn’t One Third of SNP Voters Vote for Brexit and wasn’t there 1 million Votes for Brexit in Scotland . If the SNP were showing figures that there was real demand for another referendum then Westminster would have to agree to have one . They SNP lost 20 Westminster seats at the last General Election .

    Scotland votee remain. Why are you trying to waffle about breaking it down so it attempts to suit your arguement.

    Surely a fan of democracy like yourself would like to recognise that as a country, scotland as a whole voted to remain.


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    #1054
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,149 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    After we took all the toxic bank debt in the crisis, the EU better repay the favour and support our economy and offset the damage at whatever the cost in the event of a no deal Brexit.


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    #1055
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    blinding wrote: »
    What have you got against the Democracy of a General Election ?

    I agree that if any party puts having another Brexit Referendum in their Manifesto and wins then there should be another Brexit Referendum .

    There surely will be another General Election soon . All the dynamics are heading that way .

    Just keep re running general elections till you get the result you want , is it?

    They had a general election 2 years ago. Thats more recent than the brexit vote you demand is implemented regardless of a shift in polls. Respect the democracy .


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    #1056
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I'd say May can't wait to get to the Queens house to resign.

    That was one slow train crash, Bozo's will be quick and spectacular though.

    The UK haven't hit rock bottom yet, which is something in itself.


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    #1057
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Scotland votee remain. Why are you trying to waffle about breaking it down so it attempts to suit your arguement.

    Surely a fan of democracy like yourself would like to recognise that as a country, scotland as a whole voted to remain.
    Scotland and Northern Ireland can leave anytime they get 50% + 1

    They don’t even need 52% .


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    #1058
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hopefully Johnson will give all the key Brexit positions in his cabinet to the most vociferous Brexiteers.

    Let them all be seen as the people who brought their society to its knees. It is far, far better that they be there rather than outside saying "I told you so" and claiming ideological purity. They need to be given enough power to destroy themselves, and their pernicious populist ideology. For at least a generation. If they don't throw Britain off a cliff with a no-deal Brexit, they will be destroyed by their followers. So, in terms of breaking Brexiteer power putting them in government is a win-win scenario.

    We are now heading into the reckoning phase. Peak Brexit meets economic and political reality, and reality will obviously win.


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    #1059
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Just keep re running general elections till you get the result you want , is it?

    They had a general election 2 years ago. Thats more recent than the brexit vote you demand is implemented regardless of a shift in polls. Respect the democracy .
    By that criteria then the Vote to leave the Eu must be respected . That is a very recent referendum .

    If a government cannot gets its policies through then there is a General Election or a Change of Government , There is no viable alternative to the Tories in Parliament at the Moment .

    In Western Democracies that is the way out of such a situation .

    Is the Eu still allowing General Elections In sovereign Independent Countries:eek::eek::eek:


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    #1060
    Dytalus
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Dytalus


    blinding wrote: »
    Scotland and Northern Ireland can leave anytime they get 50% + 1

    They don’t even need 52% .

    As has been pointed out to you, Scotland cannot.

    Westminster needs to allow the referendum to happen for it to be legal. Even if 75% of Scottish people wanted independence, they could still be denied it by a suitably spiteful UK government. The Tories have already said they'll refuse any request for one.

    Even NI requires the Secretary of State to call the Border Poll. Even though they're legally bound to if they suspect the nationalists would win, the decision lies entirely with them. So, again, a deleterious SoS could try and postpone (if not outright prevent) the will of the people by just not calling for the Border Vote. Far, far less likely (almost guaranteed not to be the case) than the denial of a Scottish vote, but technically possible.


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    #1061
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hopefully Johnson will give all the key Brexit positions in his cabinet to the most vociferous Brexiteers.

    Let them all be seen as the people who brought their society to its knees. It is far, far better that they be there rather than outside saying "I told you so" and claiming ideological purity. They need to be given enough power to destroy themselves, and their pernicious populist ideology. For at least a generation. If they don't throw Britain off a cliff with a no-deal Brexit, they will be destroyed by their followers. So, in terms of breaking Brexiteer power putting them in government is a win-win scenario.

    We are now heading into the reckoning phase. Peak Brexit meets economic and political reality, and reality will obviously win.

    You'd really need Farage in there as well.

    Otherwise he'll just keep hurling from the ditch so to speak.


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    #1062
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Dytalus wrote: »
    As has been pointed out to you, Scotland cannot.

    Westminster needs to allow the referendum to happen for it to be legal. Even if 75% of Scottish people wanted independence, they could still be denied it by a suitably spiteful UK government. The Tories have already said they'll refuse any request for one.

    Even NI requires the Secretary of State to call the Border Poll. Even though they're legally bound to if they suspect the nationalists would win, the decision lies entirely with them. So, again, a deleterious SoS could try and postpone (if not outright prevent) the will of the people by just not calling for the Border Vote. Far, far less likely (almost guaranteed not to be the case) than the denial of a Scottish vote, but technically possible.
    There does not appear to be much pressure for another Independence Referendum in Scotland .They were told after all that the last one was a once in a generation Referendum . If the pressure is there then Westminster could not resist . Real Politik .

    There seems very little pressure for a border poll in Northern Ireland either . If the Pressure was there Westminster could again not resist . Leo would have an immediate bowel evacuation if there was a border poll .


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    #1063
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    You'd really need Farage in there as well.

    Otherwise he'll just keep hurling from the ditch so to speak.
    Farage should be offered the Minister for Brexit Post .

    “ Fook Off Eu . " Brexit done .


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    #1064
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blinding wrote: »
    Farage should be offered the Minister for Brexit Post .

    “ Fook Off Eu . " Brexit done .

    ...but will you help save us off Iran first please?




    https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/1153400045825384453


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    #1065
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    ...but will you help save us off Iran first please?




    https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/1153400045825384453
    Trump is probably waiting for the Boris and Nigel Farage Dream Team .

    Its not actually Donald’s style to help bail out a loser like Theresa May .:eek::eek:


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    #1066
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭source


    blinding wrote: »
    There does not appear to be much pressure for another Independence Referendum in Scotland .They were told after all that the last one was a once in a generation Referendum . If the pressure is there then Westminster could not resist . Real Politik .

    There seems very little pressure for a border poll in Northern Ireland either . If the Pressure was there Westminster could again not resist . Leo would have an immediate bowel evacuation if there was a border poll .

    The British are as adept as you are at avoiding questions, they would have no issue with sticking their head in the sand if Scotland and NI sought to leave.

    I also don't think Leo would have a bowel evacuation if a border poll was called, again as with all the topics you are discussing on this thread you are only presenting partial facts to support your view point. The fact is that both NI and Ireland would need to vote for a united Ireland and all polls indicate that we don't want the headache of NI.


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    #1067
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    blinding wrote: »

    Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

    Are you aware of the statistic that EU laws have gone exactly the way that the majority of UK MEPs voted 98% of the time in the last 20-years. Furthermore, the other 2% is mainly due to non UK participation due to opt-outs! Furthermore again, it seems like all of the things the UK are now moaning about with regards to the EU are initiatives that the UK played a leading part in. So what exactly is it you think he is fighting for freedom against?

    He showed up outside number 10 a few weeks ago demanding to be involved in the negations that aren't underway or offered for a withdrawal agreement he says he doesn't want - yet you are completely blinded as to what an absolute spoofer he is - or you proactively choose to be!


    blinding wrote: »
    The Brexit Party got 31.6% in the Eu elections . A party that was only a few weeks old .

    I laugh at this notion that there's this amazing result for such a young party - as if there is an expected correlation between the age of a party and the number of votes it should get and that its support will naturally grow as it gets older

    Especially since the Brexit Party is effectively a re branding of the old UKIP which is 25-years old!
    blinding wrote: »
    There does not appear to be much pressure for another Independence Referendum in Scotland .They were told after all that the last one was a once in a generation Referendum


    Its a very curious version of democracy that you love so much. It's kinda inline with a Russian or North Korean version of democracy whereby the result of a dishonest campaign, no different to a dishonest vote count, is still perfectly valid.
    blinding wrote: »
    Farage should be offered the Minister for Brexit Post .

    “ Fook Off Eu . " Brexit done .

    He sort of has to win a seat in Westminster first - at the 9th attempt - and form a government!

    His attempts to implement GATT-24 against its own actual rules would be hilarious!


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    #1068
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blinding wrote: »
    Trump is probably waiting for the Boris and Nigel Farage Dream Team .

    Its not actually Donald’s style to help bail out a loser like Theresa May .:eek::eek:

    Sure he is! :rolleyes:

    So, as we can plainly see already, 'Fook Off EU' will never be an option.


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    #1069
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    source wrote: »
    The British are as adept as you are at avoiding questions, they would have no issue with sticking their head in the sand if Scotland and NI sought to leave.

    I also don't think Leo would have a bowel evacuation if a border poll was called, again as with all the topics you are discussing on this thread you are only presenting partial facts to support your view point. The fact is that both NI and Ireland would need to vote for a united Ireland and all polls indicate that we don't want the headache of NI.
    Who could have a problem with Scotland and Northern Ireland Democratically Leaving the UK .

    I love Democracy and the Freedom that comes with it . Look at Hong Kong now and Cherish Democracy .


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    #1070
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Trump will be Great Mates ( already is ) with Nigel Farage and Nigel is a Great Mate of Boris .

    Three Marvellous Musketeers .


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    #1071
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    blinding wrote: »
    Trump will be Great Mates ( already is ) with Nigel Farage and Nigel is a Great Mate of Boris .

    Three Marvellous Musketeers .
    The Russian connection?


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    #1072
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    The Russian connection?
    Great success against the Germans when needed in WW2 .


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    #1073
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    blinding wrote: »
    Great success against the Germans when needed in WW2 .
    Yeah, you're welcome to their help nowadays!


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    #1074
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭source


    blinding wrote: »
    Who could have a problem with Scotland and Northern Ireland Democratically Leaving the UK .

    I love Democracy and the Freedom that comes with it . Look at Hong Kong now and Cherish Democracy .

    Maybe the English?


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    #1075
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    source wrote: »
    Maybe the English?
    The English will in no way stop either Scotland or Northern Ireland from taking their Democratic Freedom . Quite the Opposite in Fact .

    Leo would be doing more to stop a United Ireland than the English .


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    #1076
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭source


    blinding wrote: »
    The English will in no way stop either Scotland or Northern Ireland from taking their Democratic Freedom . Quite the Opposite in Fact .

    Leo would be doing more to stop a United Ireland than the English .

    LOL the fact that you claim to believe that is hilarious.

    Anyway you got your wish. I was watching the announcement, Boris won, 90 something thousand votes to 46,000.


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    #1077
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    So 92,153 Tory party members, including many people who joined just for this vote, have voted for Boris Johnson to be the next British prime minister. So he will.

    That number equals to what percentage of the adult population of the UK voting for him?

    Yes, where were we about the evil EU and its lack of democratic accountability...


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    #1078
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    source wrote: »
    LOL the fact that you claim to believe that is hilarious.

    Anyway you got your wish. I was watching the announcement, Boris won, 90 something thousand votes to 46,000.
    Why would the English stop Scotland or Northern Ireland from democratically leaving the Uk . Northern Ireland particularly is costing them a fortune hence bowel evacuation from Leo if there was a border poll .

    The SNP offered the Scots the Euro in the Independence Referendum and the Scots were horrified .


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    #1079
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So 92,153 Tory party members, including many people who joined just for this vote, have voted for Boris Johnson to be the next British prime minister. So he will.

    That number equals to what percentage of the adult population of the UK voting for him?

    Yes, where were we about the evil EU and its lack of democratic accountability...
    Lets have a General Election to give Boris his Mandate .


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    #1080
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    source wrote: »
    LOL the fact that you claim to believe that is hilarious.

    Anyway you got your wish. I was watching the announcement, Boris won, 90 something thousand votes to 46,000.

    Watch him rapidly flounder in negotiations with EU leaders, stumbling down the Brussels corridor. He hasn't got one card in the deck, cheap soundbites don't cut it with grown-ups.


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    #1081
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Watch him rapidly flounder in negotiations with EU leaders, stumbling down the Brussels corridor. He hasn't got one card in the deck, cheap soundbites don't cut it with grown-ups.

    Have the popcorn ready as we speak. Will he last to Christmas?


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