Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Laois_Man

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They already did it Rob, by voting for Brexit, without a plan, without understanding what No Deal meant (that is the definition of being a Lemming) and by not having the sense so far to either take the deal or stop the whole divisive stupid shambles.

The public didn't vote for no-deal.
They were told it would be the easiest/quickest deal in history.
They thought they would retain on of the benefits of EU membership without any of the disadvantages
Then the goal posts moved after "Leave" won and they brilliantly managed to carry most people along with that move

Still idiotic on the public's part mind you!

FrancieBrady

Laois_Man wrote: »

The public didn't vote for no-deal.
They were told it would be the easiest/quickest deal in history.
They thought they would retain on of the benefits of EU membership without any of the disadvantages
Then the goal posts moved after "Leave" won and they brilliantly managed to carry most people along with that move

Still idiotic on the public's part mind you!

Absolutely, lemmings following lemmings and still not able to see that there was no plan and that they are not the 'power' in Europe or the world, that they thought they were.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Laois_Man wrote: »

The public didn't vote for no-deal.
They were told it would be the easiest/quickest deal in history.
They thought they would retain on of the benefits of EU membership without any of the disadvantages
Then the goal posts moved after "Leave" won and they brilliantly managed to carry most people along with that move

Still idiotic on the public's part mind you!

Absolutely, lemmings following lemmings and still not able to see that there was no plan and that they are not the 'power' in Europe or the world, that they thought they were.

Here we go,the usual anti British verbal diaoreah you start spouting about your lifelong nemesis the UK.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Massively obvious co-ordinated campaign against the Irish government in the British media since Johnson took over. It's even seeped into The Irish Times with the publicity given to the anti-Irish rant in the Daily Telegraph by that self-described "proud and loyal British subject", Bruce Arnold.

Irish politicians are just getting the same same treatment in the British press that British politicians get in the Irish press (read Collette Brown's articles in the Indo for example).

The difference is, Irish politicians very very rarely pop up on the radar abroad, so foreign papers never comment on them.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Here we go,the usual anti British verbal diaoreah you start spouting about your lifelong nemesis the UK.

Ah here's Rob, dis-allowing any criticism of some of the British and screaming about anti-British this and that.

Once again I reserve the right to criticise any action that affects me by who-so-ever. I am very specific of who i am criticising...those who you agree are heading over a cliff, without a plan, without forethought for who it might affect and screaming abuse at those trying to stop them doing it - lemmings.

briany

Laois_Man wrote: »

The public didn't vote for no-deal.
They were told it would be the easiest/quickest deal in history.
They thought they would retain on of the benefits of EU membership without any of the disadvantages
Then the goal posts moved after "Leave" won and they brilliantly managed to carry most people along with that move

Still idiotic on the public's part mind you!

The thing that annoys me about Brexiteers' rhetoric is that they advocate leaving not only the EU, but also the EEA and CU, despite the fact that neither of the latter were part of the ballot question. I can quote the referendum proposal as it appears on the ballot if you don't believe me. Norway is not in the EU and Iceland are not in the EU, but they still participate in the Single Market due to their EEA membership. So, the UK remaining part of the EEA would fulfil the 2016 referendum to the letter. Now, if that were to happen, and Brexiteers complained about it, I would say then that they should have phrased the 2016 referendum question in a fuller way.

What's scary is that on an episode of Question Time not so long ago, that Labour MP Barry Gardner was getting into it with a fellow panellist who supported Brexit, and her question to her was, "Is Norway in the EU?" and she started stuttering and had no answer for this, as if this was some revelation or obscure technicality that everyone had overlooked. That's the level of political discourse in the UK, three years into the debacle. That is utterly frightening.

PeadarCo

FrancieBrady wrote:

Once again I reserve the right to criticise any action that affects me by who-so-ever. I am very specific of who i am criticising...those who you agree are heading over a cliff, without a plan, without forethought for who it might affect and screaming abuse at those trying to stop them doing it - lemmings.

To be fair with someone like Boris in charge and the UK government in general it's very easy to criticise the UK government. Sure Raab a leading Brexiter wasn't aware of the importance of the Dover Calais route. It's comedy gold. However this is real life not a satirical comedy. Some of the comments from leading Brexiters and senior UK ministers would be normally considered to be too far fetched to be included in a comedy. So there's lots of ammunition for anyone looking to criticise the UK

The thing is it important to remember 48% voted to stay in and hard Brexiters are a minority despite the actions of the UK government.

FrancieBrady

PeadarCo wrote: »

The thing is it important to remember 48% voted to stay in and hard Brexiters are a minority despite the actions of the UK government.

Absolutely, I have never generalised about the British people ever.

Rob just gets upset because he cannot defend what is being criticised. Easier just to start jumping up and down and calling you a 'Brit hating Paddy'.

Guy:Incognito

Laois_Man wrote: »

The public didn't vote for no-deal.
They were told it would be the easiest/quickest deal in history.
They thought they would retain on of the benefits of EU membership without any of the disadvantages
Then the goal posts moved after "Leave" won and they brilliantly managed to carry most people along with that move

Still idiotic on the public's part mind you!

That's why if/when no deal happens it needs to be like switch from the eu. Want to go on holiday to spain? Apply for a Visa and we'll get to you. All the "ex-pats" to be kindly told to hop on a plane home and do likewise.

Let them see that "leave means leave" and its akin to looking to go to the US now. Theres no advantage to the EU to play nice and give any benefits to membership without membership.


No sitting in your house in Alicante whinging about the EU and voting for Brexit with the assumption itll never affect you.

irishproduce

I wish the Brits well. They made a decision to leave and it is heartening to see them follow through on their democratic process to fulfil the referendum wish, just like we do likewise when a referendum passes here and everywhere else for that matter.
Leave them alone, let them get on with it and best of luck to them.

FrancieBrady

irishproduce wrote: »

I wish the Brits well. They made a decision to leave and it is heartening to see them follow through on their democratic process to fulfil the referendum wish, just like we do likewise when a referendum passes here and everywhere else for that matter.
Leave them alone, let them get on with it and best of luck to them.

They have been left alone and they have approx 90 days of aloneness left to come up with something. We in the EU are just looking on waiting for them.

holyhead

In a sense the UK vote on Brexit was a nonsense.

1. A deal to leave was not in place by the time of the referendum therefore the public had no idea what consequences leaving would incur.
2. The leave side made nonsensical promises of the utopia leaving would bring.
3. The remain side didn't put a strong case for remaining, I think never contemplating the possibility leave would triumph.
4. Cameron thought a vote on EU membership would put to bed divisions in the conservative party and if anything only deepened such divisions.
5. The threat to the peace process in Ireland, should Britain leave, was not fully explained or I think understood by the British public.

The only way you could say a decision to leave was informed would be if Johnson had a fresh poll on EU membership once a leave agreement was arrived at (if that is indeed possible).

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, I have never generalised about the British people ever.

Rob just gets upset because he cannot defend what is being criticised. Easier just to start jumping up and down and calling you a 'Brit hating Paddy'.

I do get upset francie,at what the brexiteers are doing to my country.If I have a go at you about it it`s because I hate being lumped in with those who are hell bent on trying to fix what is`nt broken( hard brexiteers stuck in the 19th century).
If you look at the bigger picture most Irish politicians are worried about the effects of brexit.You on the other hand seem to be revelling in it despite of this.
Just as I know Irish people that will be affected by brexit I`m sure you do.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I do get upset francie,at what the brexiteers are doing to my country.If I have a go at you about it it`s because I hate being lumped in with those who are hell bent on trying to fix what is`nt broken( hard brexiteers stuck in the 19th century).
If you look at the bigger picture most Irish politicians are worried about the effects of brexit.You on the other hand seem to be revelling in it despite of this.
Just as I know Irish people that will be affected by brexit I`m sure you do.

I am 'reveling' in it?

My business will be almost halved by a no Deal, my border community will be decimated and we may be looking at a return to conflict...sure...I think it's a great idea!

Jump_In_Jack

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, lemmings following lemmings lemons and still not able to see that there was no plan and that they are not the 'power' in Europe or the world, that they thought they were.

Appropriate I think.

Seth Brundle

Fairly apt IMO...
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1157217184520777728

Balanadan

Still waiting for them to piss off. I actually have great time for a lot of British people, I have great friends and great business relationships, but given some of the bile emanating from the headbangers over there I think Irish people and Irish businesses are now closer to our friends in Europe than ever and realise the value of being part of a cooperative EUropean family.

I know a lot of Irish businesses have been working hard to shift their supply chain to purchase from EU rather than the UK. Many haven't fully pulled the trigger yet but are ready to do so.

I've seen a change in Irish consumers too, who previously wouldn't have batted an eyelid at purchasing products supplied from / manufactured in the UK, but are now put off by this. I've seen many British manufacturers more prominently display the Union Jack on their product labeling in recent years, which is good for their domestic sales but not so for export to Ireland and is turning off many Irish consumers.

Kidchameleon

Balanadan wrote: »

Still waiting for them to piss off. I actually have great time for a lot of British people, I have great friends and great business relationships, but given some of the bile emanating from the headbangers over there I think Irish people and Irish businesses are now closer to our friends in Europe than ever and realise the value of being part of a cooperative EUropean family.

I know a lot of Irish businesses have been working hard to shift their supply chain to purchase from EU rather than the UK. Many haven't fully pulled the trigger yet but are ready to do so.

I've seen a change in Irish consumers too, who previously wouldn't have batted an eyelid at purchasing products supplied from / manufactured in the UK, but are now put off by this. I've seen many British manufacturers more prominently display the Union Jack on their product labeling in recent years, which is good for their domestic sales but not so for export to Ireland and is turning off many Irish consumers.

Lol! You, me and everyone else buys British products, thats not going to change because they dont want to be a member of your club amymore

biko

This drawn-out process is like some weird on-again off-again relationship, but all your friends say "you should stay with him, you used to be great together.."

FrancieBrady

biko wrote: »

This drawn-out process is like some weird on-again off-again relationship, but all your friends say "you should stay with him, you used to be great together.."

No it isn't. One half of the relationship has made it crystal clear how it will continue whether they stay together or part. The other half is off sulking and wrecking it's own flat in temper.

Galwayguy35

Johnson is like someone who is just making it up as he goes along.

Brits seem to think they are better than everyone else, there is an arrogance that must be a throwback to when they invaded half the world murdering, raping and enslaving the native people.

twinytwo

irishproduce wrote: »

I wish the Brits well. They made a decision to leave and it is heartening to see them follow through on their democratic process to fulfil the referendum wish, just like we do likewise when a referendum passes here and everywhere else for that matter.
Leave them alone, let them get on with it and best of luck to them.

Not entirely true, a referendum was passed here and we were asked to vote again.

FrancieBrady

twinytwo wrote: »

Not entirely true, a referendum was passed here and we were asked to vote again.

We always had the option not to vote again. WE asked for clarification and assurances...got them and our government decided to hold the referendum again.

The Daily Mail version of the big bad sinister EU (which we are part of btw) ordering small nations to do stuff doesn't exist.

First Up

Kidchameleon wrote:

Lol! You, me and everyone else buys British products, thats not going to change because they dont want to be a member of your club amymore

It will change if they are not being stocked anymore.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Lol! You, me and everyone else buys British products, thats not going to change because they dont want to be a member of your club amymore

They won’t be available or be expensive post Brexit. I don’t deliberately buy british, it’s not a brand per say so if they are removed then I’ll replace with whatever products are left

SCOOP 64

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Johnson is like someone who is just making it up as he goes along.

Brits seem to think they are better than everyone else, there is an arrogance that must be a throwback to when they invaded half the world murdering, raping and enslaving the native people.

This crap still coming out on this thread.

Balanadan

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Lol! You, me and everyone else buys British products, thats not going to change because they dont want to be a member of your club amymore

Except it is changing

Kidchameleon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We always had the option not to vote again. WE asked for clarification and assurances...got them and our government decided to hold the referendum again.

The Daily Mail version of the big bad sinister EU (which we are part of btw) ordering small nations to do stuff doesn't exist.

No no no, we were told to vote again. And we endured a year of scare mongering before the second vote. THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY, the EU does not care about democracy.

The day after the first vote results were in:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland-will-have-to-vote-again-on-lisbon-says-sarkozy-1.945091

First Up

Kidchameleon wrote:

No no no, we were told to vote again. And we endured a year of scare mongering before the second vote. THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY, the EU does not care about democracy.

Ah not this crap again.

Spanish Eyes

The biggest issue here to my mind is the sunk cost fallacy.

That, and the refusal to say that any of this is wrong, or people got it wrong, or were told the wrong thing.

No way will anyone admit it is blx. Can't do that.