Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Kidchameleon

Dytalus wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you'll ignore this, or handwave it away, because it's pretty widely reported on so you've clearly no interest in finding out:

Vote Leave broke electoral law

And Arron Banks (along with leave.EU) broke data protection laws during the campaign in sharing information that they should not have had access to, and were heavily fined for it.

I asked for proof, why would I ignore it? Your "proof" by the way is an article in a rag newspaper that is full of heresay. The article itself states that the electorial commission has no evidence to bring charges. The extra money spent by the leave campeign was declared to the commission BEFORE it was spent. Lastly, there are just as many accusations of dodgy spending by the remain campeign. The truth is that over spending is par for the course in any electorial process. Everyone does it

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I asked for proof, why would I ignore it? Your "proof" by the way is an article in a rag newspaper that is full of heresay. The article itself states that the electorial commission has no evidence to bring charges. The extra money spent by the leave campeign was declared to the commission BEFORE it was spent. Lastly, there are just as many accusations of dodgy spending by the remain campeign. The truth is that over spending is par for the course in any electorial process. Everyone does it

You'd think they might have spent some money on 'clarity'. Because the UK's problem is the UK itself.

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I asked for proof, why would I ignore it? Your "proof" by the way is an article in a rag newspaper that is full of heresay. The article itself states that the electorial commission has no evidence to bring charges. The extra money spent by the leave campeign was declared to the commission BEFORE it was spent. Lastly, there are just as many accusations of dodgy spending by the remain campeign. The truth is that over spending is par for the course in any electorial process. Everyone does it

The Guardian is a rag? So where do you get your news?

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The Guardian is a rag? So where do you get your news?

How I get my news is not relevant, I am not the person making spurious claims of rigging and cheating. As a matter of fact, I respect democracy which is why I dislike the EU so much. If the Brits voted to remain I wouldnt be crying like a baby over it.

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How I get my news is not relevant, I am not the person making spurious claims of rigging and cheating. As a matter of fact, I respect democracy which is why I dislike the EU so much. If the Brits voted to remain I wouldnt be crying like a baby over it.

So the Guardian is a rag but your preferred news sources are secret. And you hate the EU but Britain leaving or remaining is a matter of indifference.

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So the Guardian is a rag but your preferred news sources are secret.

Yes the guardian is a rag. My sources are not secret (I have publicly stated my news sources on this very website before) they are simply not relevant to this discussion.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

And you hate the EU

Thats an understatement.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

but Britain leaving or remaining is a matter of indifference.

Thats not what I said at all. I am delighted they are leaving. What I said quite clearly was, if they had chosen to remain, I would have respected their vote and moved on.

Seth Brundle

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How I get my news is not relevant, I am not the person making spurious claims of rigging and cheating. As a matter of fact, I respect democracy which is why I dislike the EU so much. If the Brits voted to remain I wouldnt be crying like a baby over it.

Ones source of news does influence ones view so I'd disagree with your first point.
Secondly, I'm not making spurious claims. I'm repeating verified sources including some from CA themselves.
In terms of you respecting democracy, this is nonsense. What has been happening over the last number of years is far from democratic given that the public are being deliberately misled by their government. Democracy should be transparent. Governance in the UK is far from transparent.
Lastly in terms of democracy and the EU, the EU is very democratic. It's politicians are elected. It has fewer civil servants than the UK Ministry of Defence. It's just more British Brexiteer waffle to refer to it as undemocratic.

Maybe you can prove me wrong though using facts rather than spouting the usual anti-EU populist claptrap!

Kidchameleon

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ones source of news does influence ones view so I'd disagree with your first point.
Secondly, I'm not making spurious claims. I'm repeating verified sources including some from CA themselves.
In terms of you respecting democracy, this is nonsense. What has been happening over the last number of years is far from democratic given that the public are being deliberately misled by their government. Democracy should be transparent. Governance in the UK is far from transparent.
Lastly in terms of democracy and the EU, the EU is very democratic. It's politicians are elected. It has fewer civil servants than the UK Ministry of Defence. It's just more British Brexiteer waffle to refer to it as undemocratic.

Maybe you can prove me wrong though using facts rather than spouting the usual anti-EU populist claptrap!

There is no arguing with Europhiles, its like talking to a wall. You little club is crumbling my friend.

Seth Brundle

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There is no arguing with Europhiles, its like talking to a wall. You little club is crumbling my friend.

Is that it?
That's all you can respond with despite whinging earlier about it being a debate?
I was right with my earlier description you being a child!

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There is no arguing with Europhiles, its like talking to a wall. You little club is crumbling my friend.

Out come the toys. :rolleyes:

holyhead

Britain since Johnson came in seems very determined to just piss off and get on with Brexit promising to crash out in October.

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ones source of news does influence ones view so I'd disagree with your first point.
Secondly, I'm not making spurious claims. I'm repeating verified sources including some from CA themselves.
In terms of you respecting democracy, this is nonsense. What has been happening over the last number of years is far from democratic given that the public are being deliberately misled by their government. Democracy should be transparent. Governance in the UK is far from transparent.
Lastly in terms of democracy and the EU, the EU is very democratic. It's politicians are elected. It has fewer civil servants than the UK Ministry of Defence. It's just more British Brexiteer waffle to refer to it as undemocratic.

Maybe you can prove me wrong though using facts rather than spouting the usual anti-EU populist claptrap!

There is no arguing with Europhiles, its like talking to a wall. You little club is crumbling my friend.

I think you've got it little head mixed up about who is crumbling

Guy:Incognito

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You say manipulated and tampered but the reality is people were persuaded by excelent campeigning

Excellent campaigning? They still dont know what they want over 3 years later.

Royal Irish

Kidchameleon wrote: »

How I get my news is not relevant, I am not the person making spurious claims of rigging and cheating. As a matter of fact, I respect democracy which is why I dislike the EU so much. If the Brits voted to remain I wouldnt be crying like a baby over it.

What is undemocratic about the EU?

declanflynn

I think you have your little head mixed up about what is crumbling

Silent Running

holyhead wrote: »

Britain since Johnson came in seems very determined to just piss off and get on with Brexit promising to crash out in October.

So what's keeping them in? They can leave any time they want.

El_Duderino 09

Just reacting to the throws title; the UK can't actually do anything until the Halloween leave date. It's just a protracted negotiation until then.

The news follows every little move and statement as of they're significant. In fact very little of it is actually relevant. The EU position has been the same since very early in the process. The UK has been dancing around, shadow boxing and throwing shapes but ultimately they votes on the same deal 3 times and it's the only deal the EU is offering.

If anything happens it'll probably happen in the last few days before the deadline. The media making a soap opera out is the day to day is not helpful. You should try following the Express newspaper for a few days. They will say anything to stir up a bit of outrage. One day the headline is "EU in disarray and about to cracks" next day "UK ready to do deal but EU remains obstinate and won't even talk to UK"

I've stopped following the day to day and just catch up on the Important points in the negotiations. Fact is there haven't been any Important points on the last few weeks.

Seth Brundle

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Just reacting to the throws title; the UK can't actually do anything until the Halloween leave date. It's just a protracted negotiation until then.

Actually the UK can leave or revoke Art 50 at any time they want.
Nobody is stopping them.

El_Duderino 09

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Actually the UK can leave or revoke Art 50 at any time they want.
Nobody is stopping them.

Yeah they could but they won't. Naturally they'll run down the clock and see if they can get a better deal at "the eleventh hour". It might or might not work but there's almost no chance of them leaving early.

Guy:Incognito

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah they could but they won't..

Thats completely different to what you said in your last post though.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Just reacting to the throws title; the UK can't actually do anything until the Halloween leave date. .

Stevieluvsye

I really thought Boris would make a better fist of this unless I am being naive and this is a master plan.

But listening to Michael gove earlier a no deal is almost a cert.

I think the euro boys are scratching their heads and waiting for some kind of reconciliation.

Don’t know what to think now.

Our budget forecast should be interesting over the next 8 weeks.

Could be general elections here and there

tuxy

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Our budget forecast should be interesting over the next 8 weeks.

Could be general elections here and there

I think it will be a bit longer before there is a GE here. FF will just sit back when things are at their worst and then make promises to fix everything when the time is right. I don't think anyone wants to be in power during brexit or directly after.

Kermit.de.frog

Snow Garden

I like English people

SCOOP 64

So can we conclude a hard Brexit it is then.

Kermit.de.frog

Just watched Newsnight. They were talking with Paschal Donoghue. The presenter asked "will you not tell Leo Varadkar to go to EU and ask them to help us!?"

Empire 2.0 wha?

El_Duderino 09

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Thats completely different to what you said in your last post though.

Is it? OK. To clarify; technically they could withdraw article 50 or whatever. But realistically they will do all this dancing around and hope to do a good deal at the last minute. Following the daily minutiae as if they're relevant or represent any change, is Complete soap opera

El_Duderino 09

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

So can we conclude a hard Brexit it is then.

No. While nothing of any substance is likely to happen until very close to the Halloween deadline, it's completely unclear what the final outcome will be. Deal or no Deal or extension to the withdrawal. Or an election in the Uk. Don't believe any precise predictions because there isn't enough information.

cameramonkey

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

I really thought Boris would make a better fist of this unless I am being naive and this is a master plan.

But listening to Michael gove earlier a no deal is almost a cert.

I think the euro boys are scratching their heads and waiting for some kind of reconciliation.

Don’t know what to think now.

Our budget forecast should be interesting over the next 8 weeks.

Could be general elections here and there

You are being naive. Borris is trying to put the pressure on the EU and Ireland by saying they will do a crash out. If they dont a least try a bluff they cant expect anyone to buy the spoof. Borris is spoofing but not very well. No one believes him except Tory boys, Brexiteers and their chums.

El_Duderino 09

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

I really thought Boris would make a better fist of this unless I am being naive and this is a master plan.

But listening to Michael gove earlier a no deal is almost a cert.

I think the euro boys are scratching their heads and waiting for some kind of reconciliation.

Don’t know what to think now.

Yes you were being naive. The only reason to think Boris would do a better job of negotiating is because he said he would do a better job. That was just a sales pitch to become PM. Nothing to do with the reality of the negotiations.

The EU position has been almost exactly the same since early on in the whole show. The deal is the they voted against 3 times or, no Deal or maybe an eleventh hour deal.

There's absolutely nothing about whether its Boris or May or Gove or you or me that would cause the EU to change its stance. Credit where it's due though, Boris said he would do a better job, with such conviction, that he convinced the tory party to make him PM. And he convinced you to think he would do a better job too.

Absolutely no truth to it. He just said he would do a better job, convincingly.