Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

trashcan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

<SNIP> Quoted images removed

Christ, are punters in the UK really taking this stuff seriously? Boris is playing a game of chicken on a bicycle against a truck.

El_Duderino 09

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

<SNIP> Quoted image removed

Tomorrow it will have a headline saying the complete opposite. Then varadkar is about to cracks and tell the EU to drop the backstop. Then it will say the EU is about to crumble. Then it will say the EU is subbing Britain by refusing to negotiate. Then tories are going to rebel then..... It's just a soap opera.

Do you know those glossy mags which go into analysis of coronation St storylines as if they're real life? That's how the express covers brexit. And to an extent, it's how all the news outlets cover it.

The easiest part of the story to tell is the fact that the EU has basically had one consistent position throughout the entire process. From before the referendum to now (backstop aside) the EU has kept it's position consistent. But thats a crap story to tell because it's only a couple of lines long and isn't really open to interpretation or storytelling. So instead it's sold as a tale of intrigue and you better tune in again tomorrow to get the latest.

In reality, probably nothing of consequence will happen until close to the deadline.

cameramonkey

THis is what you need to know about Borris and his spoofing. He is caught by his ballix. The Americans will eat him alive and the rest of the world is waiting in the long grass.

https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-us-will-exploit-uk-in-post-brexit-trade-talks-2019-8?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Tomorrow it will have a headline saying the complete opposite. Then varadkar is about to cracks and tell the EU to drop the backstop. Then it will say the EU is about to crumble. Then it will say the EU is subbing Britain by refusing to negotiate. Then tories are going to rebel then..... It's just a soap opera.

Do you know those glossy mags which go into analysis of coronation St storylines as if they're real life? That's how the express covers brexit. And to an extent, it's how all the news outlets cover it.

The easiest part of the story to tell is the fact that the EU has basically had one consistent position throughout the entire process. From before the referendum to now (backstop aside) the EU has kept it's position consistent. But thats a crap story to tell because it's only a couple of lines long and isn't really open to interpretation or storytelling. So instead it's sold as a tale of intrigue and you better tune in again tomorrow to get the latest.

In reality, probably nothing of consequence will happen until close to the deadline.

Printed media stopped being about news years ago. Now all any paper wants to do is create shock and outrage to increase the number of shares and drive traffic to their online site.

El_Duderino 09

cameramonkey wrote: »

THis is what you need to know about Borris and his spoofing. He is caught by his ballix. The Americans will eat him alive and the rest of the world is waiting in the long grass.

https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-us-will-exploit-uk-in-post-brexit-trade-talks-2019-8?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

Explaining to the British public why the Health System is up for sale will be the hardest part of convincing people it's a good deal. Complete shambles.

Junkyard Tom

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The presenter asked "will you not tell Leo Varadkar to go to EU and ask them to help us!?"

El_Duderino 09

Today's Express headline:
"Leo Varadkar says ANOTHER delay coming as EU tries to dodge no deal

LEO VARADKAR has suggested Brexit could be delayed again beyond October 31 as he relents from his ruthless stance to avoid a no deal"

Yesterday's headline was about the EU refusing to negotiate. Today there desperate to avoid no Deal brexit.

Stevieluvsye

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Today's Express headline:
"Leo Varadkar says ANOTHER delay coming as EU tries to dodge no deal

LEO VARADKAR has suggested Brexit could be delayed again beyond October 31 as he relents from his ruthless stance to avoid a no deal"

Yesterday's headline was about the EU refusing to negotiate. Today there desperate to avoid no Deal brexit.

The Express is nearly as bad as the red tops

El_Duderino 09

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

The Express is nearly as bad as the red tops

It is a "red top". I had no idea it wasn't Considered a tabloid. It's like a red top that specialises in political soap opera and outrage.

InTheShadows

trashcan wrote: »

Christ, are punters in the UK really taking this stuff seriously? Boris is playing a game of chicken on a bicycle against a truck.

Wrong. A No Deal exit brings about a recession in Europe and will be the start of the end for the European project. Boris knows it and so does the EU.

Stevieluvsye

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It is a "red top". I had no idea it wasn't Considered a tabloid. It's like a red top that specialises in political soap opera and outrage.

More specific, Sun, Mirror & Star

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

THis is what you need to know about Borris and his spoofing. He is caught by his ballix. The Americans will eat him alive and the rest of the world is waiting in the long grass.

https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-us-will-exploit-uk-in-post-brexit-trade-talks-2019-8?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

A lot of cold hard power politics truths in Larry Summers' analysis of Britain's post-Brexit fate right there.

Wanderer78

InTheShadows wrote: »

Wrong. A No Deal exit brings about a recession in Europe and will be the start of the end for the European project. Boris knows it and so does the EU.

say wha!

Seth Brundle

InTheShadows wrote: »

Wrong. A No Deal exit brings about a recession in Europe and will be the start of the end for the European project. Boris knows it and so does the EU.

Can you please elaborate on how it will trigger a recession in Europe?
In terms of it bringing about an end to the "European project", how will this happen? If anything, the united front in the face of idiocy is actually making it stronger so I'm curious to see where you're getting your information.

El_Duderino 09

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

More specific, Sun, Mirror & Star

Daily mail and the express.

Stevieluvsye

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Daily mail and the express.

No, i class the Mail, Gaurdian & Express as somewhat readable papers.

I generally would read the Mail though as it is generally a conservative leaning paper unlike the Express

FrancieBrady

So after 3 years of negotiations Michael Gove complains that we in the EU 'are refusing to negotiate'.

What the UK needs is a coup. Take the asylum back from the lunatics.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So after 3 years of negotiations Michael Gove complains that we in the EU 'are refusing to negotiate'.

What the UK needs is a coup. Take the asylum back from the lunatics.

But there isnt a united opposition so even if there was a coup, what direction would they go?
The UK England is utterly broken.

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

But there isnt a united opposition so even if there was a coup, what direction would they go?
The UK England is utterly broken.

I meant get rid of them all.

El_Duderino 09

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

No, i class the Mail, Gaurdian & Express as somewhat readable papers.

I generally would read the Mail though as it is generally a conservative leaning paper unlike the Express

Ah no. It's too off topic to go into here but the express is a conservative entertainment paper. It also has a Conspiracy theory angle along with world war 3 headline at least once a week. And an "alien life found" headline once a week. And the editorial tone is conservative good, new/liberal bad. Johnny foreigner up to us old tricks/disrespecting the UK. Brussels is the enemy.

Seriously, visit the website now and see if it's not a conservative paper.

MrMusician18

facehugger99 wrote: »

At a rough guess I'd say 80% of what you posted was bollox/lies.

Bit conservative there. More like 100% bollox.

Stevieluvsye

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah no. It's too off topic to go into here but the express is a conservative entertainment paper. It also has a Conspiracy theory angle along with world war 3 headline at least once a week. And an "alien life found" headline once a week. And the editorial tone is conservative good, new/liberal bad. Johnny foreigner up to us old tricks/disrespecting the UK. Brussels is the enemy.

Seriously, visit the website now and see if it's not a conservative paper.

Ye apologies, Express is UKIP/Brexit lover. The gaurdian i was supposed to say.

Actually just came across this, which is slighted dated but probably remains the same

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

Franz Von Peppercorn II

10roger wrote: »

Ok, so you have no problem with the rest?

A lot of the rest is something we already have. Or is wrong.

Edit:

Debunking here.

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Interestingly the original list was about the U.K., someone did a copy and paste for Ireland, which is why it mentions the Euro.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Explaining to the British public why the Health System is up for sale will be the hardest part of convincing people it's a good deal. Complete shambles.

This is the third time I can remember the NHS was definitely being sold off.

The first was under Thatcher, when the tabloids told us that Tory privateisation meant the NHS was more than certainly going to be sold off. It never happened.

Then under the Blair/pro EU government, it was a certainty that the EU were going to force the UK to sell off the NHS as they did the water companies and electricity companies. It never happened.

Now, apparently, the nasty Americans will insist on it as part of a trade take.

my bet is that it won't happen.

Nothing gets the British more animated than talk of messing with the NHS.

El_Duderino 09

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Ye apologies, Express is UKIP/Brexit lover. The gaurdian i was supposed to say.

Actually just came across this, which is slighted dated but probably remains the same

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

Ah. That makes sense.

That's really interesting. The conservatives have a serious amount of media backing. Interesting considering all the talk of liberal bias.

I'd be on the left on lots of issues but I don't bother with the guardian. I have a subscription to the FT through work.and that's where I get news. The guardian is verbose apart from anything else. Way to much editorial in every story.

El_Duderino 09

Aegir wrote: »

This is the third time I can remember the NHS was definitely being sold off.

The first was under Thatcher, when the tabloids told us that Tory privateisation meant the NHS was more than certainly going to be sold off. It never happened.

Then under the Blair/pro EU government, it was a certainty that the EU were going to force the UK to sell off the NHS as they did the water companies and electricity companies. It never happened.

Now, apparently, the nasty Americans will insist on it as part of a trade take.

my bet is that it won't happen.

Nothing gets the British more animated than talk of messing with the NHS.

It is happening now. More and more services are being outsourced. It goes hand in hand with the tory policy of starving public services until they work so poorly that it makes sense to try outsourcing to private Companies. It will be hard to resist the Americans wanting into the health system. They have a highly developed private health industry. They must be lobbying hard to include access to the British market as part of the trade negotiations.

The UK will be weak after brexit. They'll be desperate for a free trade deal with the US. I'm not supposing it's definitely going to be completely privatised. But large portions of it are sure to be at very high risk.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It is happening now. More and more services are being outsourced. It goes hand in hand with the tory policy of starving public services until they work so poorly that it makes sense to try outsourcing to private Companies. It will be hard to resist the Americans wanting into the health system. They have a highly developed private health industry. They must be lobbying hard to include access to the British market as part of the trade negotiations.

The UK will be weak after brexit. They'll be desperate for a free trade deal with the US. I'm not supposing it's definitely going to be completely privatised. But large portions of it are sure to be at very high risk.

What is to stop US firms from bidding now?

There is nothing to stop a US firm from setting up its own private clinic in the UK either. There are plenty of private hospitals offering treatments already.

I can't recall who gave the analogy, but the NHS in British politics is like potholes in Ireland. Every opposition MP/Party highlights the shortcomings and claims to fix it when they are in power, but never actually do.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

What is to stop US firms from bidding now?

There is nothing to stop a US firm from setting up its own private clinic in the UK either. There are plenty of private hospitals offering treatments already.

I can't recall who gave the analogy, but the NHS in British politics is like potholes in Ireland. Every opposition MP/Party highlights the shortcomings and claims to fix it when they are in power, but never actually do.

We are in extraordinary times though. None that anyone alive has seen, in terms of upheaval in the UK and in the history of the NHS.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are in extraordinary times though. None that anyone alive has seen, in terms of upheaval in the UK and in the history of the NHS.

why in the history of the NHS?