Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

ILoveYourVibes

From the looks of it Boris is gearing up for a general election.

Either he will lose and lab will win or he might increase his majority and say goodbye to the DUP.

If the tories are still in power there might be enough of them to see sense and allow the backstop. But there are a lot of them who are still very much 'preserve the union' in that party without the DUP. I think they are a minority though.

If it falls to labour who knows.

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

From the looks of it Boris is gearing up for a general election.

Either he will lose and lab will win or he might increase his majority and say goodbye to the DUP.

If the tories are still in power there might be enough of them to see sense and allow the backstop. But there are a lot of them who are still very much 'preserve the union' in that party without the DUP. I think they are a minority though.

If it falls to labour who knows.

I imagine he's constantly on guard for a GE. But what makes you say so right now?

If they managed to get rid of DUP, there would be no need to oppose the backstop. It's interesting to ask a leaver about the backstop. They know they font like it but they have no real idea why.

swampgas

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think you may have missed my point - or perhaps I didn't express it properly.

Every Brexiteer I have heard is opposed to a second referendum while banging on about leaving being the will of the people, yet, I haven't heard (maybe I missed it) anyone from the Remain side asking why Leavers are so against a second referendum as surely it would simply confirm the desire of the majority to leave the EU.

Looks very much like Leavers are not sure a 2nd ref would go their way - therefore they believe it is no longer the will of the majority.

My theory, and that's all it is, is that democracy or the democratic will of the people doesn't matter much to leavers (it may not matter much to remainers either, FWIW). Like that other great bastion of FPTP, the USA, politics in the UK is a tribal battle for supremacy, where voting, referenda, newspapers and online propaganda are simply tools in the great ideological war.

Brexiters were given a gift at the referendum: against the odds, they won, in a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, their freedom from EU tyranny, and they had a chance to reclaim their proud English identity. But now they see their prize being stolen from them, by (in their view) traitors.

It doesn't matter to them that the remainers might now outnumber them, the remainers are either deluded or traitors, so it doesn't matter. Their prize is being stolen from them, and they will say, do, and believe almost anything to hang on to it.

Some of the leavers know that hard Brexit is undemocratic and unpopular, but they really don't care, and everything they say is just propaganda. Others might actually believe in "the will of the people" idea, and like many of the callers to James O'Brien at LBC, they are sure that Brexit is right and fair, but simply cannot articulate a logical argument to support their beliefs.

It's tough being a Brexiter: something you thought would never happen, Brexit, was suddenly waved under your nose, and you went for it and, magically, managed to win it. You know you are unlikely to ever get a second chance to break free, if there is another referendum you know it is going to go against you.

So it's "Do or Die", do and say whatever it takes to get Brexit through right now, because you won't get the chance again, telling little white lies about the will of the people is totally justified, as the end justifies the means.

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I imagine he's constantly on guard for a GE. But what makes you say so right now?

If they managed to get rid of DUP, there would be no need to oppose the backstop. It's interesting to ask a leaver about the backstop. They know they font like it but they have no real idea why.

The way he is acting. Its like a run up to a GE.

He is making promises he can't keep for the future. Money for this money for that.

Where will it come from?

That is campaign talk.

There is no way they can get rid of the DUP without increasing their majority.

MadYaker

NIMAN wrote: »

Sad thing is, it would be a great deal for NI.
Everyone agrees with that, probably most Unionists and big business leaders.

Pity about the DUP though. Holding the rest of us to ransom.

This is why they need a general election

Muahahaha

Not sure if posted but this Stewart Lee bit on Brexit and bendy bananas is gas. Second one down, first one is good too

https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1024411892054466562

ChikiChiki

steddyeddy wrote: »

A minister who backs Boris is said to have stated that "Ireland is f%$ked in the event of no deal. No doubt it's true but you have to wonder of the quality of politician who thinks it's diplomatic to say that about another country.

I'm getting very annoyed with the UK. There language to us throughout the process is nothing short of insulting. Ireland is referred to as "it" in that quote. They commited some of the most heinous crimes on these lands and many of us forgave.

I don't get offended at all easily but Brexit has shown that old wounds certainly still exist. We will get hurt badly again.

ILoveYourVibes

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'm getting very annoyed with the UK. There language to us throughout the process is nothing short of insulting. Ireland is referred to as "it" in that quote. They commited some of the most heinous crimes on these lands and many of us forgave.

I don't get offended at all easily but Brexit has shown that old wounds certainly still exist. We will get hurt badly again.

Well I think that is a bit much.

But I know one thing if we do have huge economic fallout from Brexit here it will REALLY make the uk unpopular here. And politicians will be the first to point the finger at someone else like the uk so they don't become fall guys.

El_Duderino 09

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'm getting very annoyed with the UK. There language to us throughout the process is nothing short of insulting. Ireland is referred to as "it" in that quote. They commited some of the most heinous crimes on these lands and many of us forgave.

I don't get offended at all easily but Brexit has shown that old wounds certainly still exist. We will get hurt badly again.

You're taking it way too personally. I wouldn't get cross about referring to Ireland as "it". They're in a very difficult position. They're in a weakened position and running out of time. The choices are to admit the mistake or plough on as hard as they can. Boris has achieved the Premiership by ploughing on so it's understandable that they have to continue down that path. No choice really.

In any case it's not about us. It's about the difficult position they've put themselves in.

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The way he is acting. Its like a run up to a GE.

He is making promises he can't keep for the future. Money for this money for that.

Where will it come from?

That is campaign talk.

There is no way they can get rid of the DUP without increasing their majority.

Has it occurred to you that that's just how Boris Johnson talks? I think he is just a spoofer and that's not to say he's a fool. People really want to believe the things are getting better and he's the only one with the neck to tell those kind of lies. I'd say this is just what to expect from PM Johnson throughout his Premiership.

Trump does it. Promises he sun, moon and stars. As long as the truth doesn't catch up to him, it's no bother.

The backstop comment is on the assumption that they can gprmm.a,government without the DUP. Tory-Brexit party government.

steddyeddy

The head of America's farming lobby says that the UK must accept US food standards in a trade deal. Project fear becomes project reality.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook&fbclid=IwAR03FJWxPepyIp_OHCcAVko5vzGsn7znHs_iZgUd_E64xjPZCFgxnB0RJw8

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote: »

The head of America's farming lobby says that the UK must accept US food standards in a trade deal. Project fear becomes project reality.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook&fbclid=IwAR03FJWxPepyIp_OHCcAVko5vzGsn7znHs_iZgUd_E64xjPZCFgxnB0RJw8

Project fear. NEXT!

Sounds like the UK wi have to produce goods to the higher EU standard to export to the EU. Meanwhile cheaper US food produced to lower US standards could compete in the domestic market. The UK would need to produce food on 2 different standards for export and domestic purposes.

ILoveYourVibes

Brexiters were given a gift at the referendum: against the odds, they won, in a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, their freedom from EU tyranny, and they had a chance to reclaim their proud English identity. But now they see their prize being stolen from them, by (in their view) traitors.

It doesn't matter to them that the remainers might now outnumber them, the remainers are either deluded or traitors, so it doesn't matter. Their prize is being stolen from them, and they will say, do, and believe almost anything to hang on to it.

Good comment. Good insight into their frame of mind.

gmisk

steddyeddy wrote: »

The head of America's farming lobby says that the UK must accept US food standards in a trade deal. Project fear becomes project reality.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook&fbclid=IwAR03FJWxPepyIp_OHCcAVko5vzGsn7znHs_iZgUd_E64xjPZCFgxnB0RJw8

All that delicious US chlorinated chicken flooding the market....yum..

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Project fear. NEXT!

Sounds like the UK wi have to produce goods to the higher EU standard to export to the EU. Meanwhile cheaper US food produced to lower US standards could compete in the domestic market. The UK would need to produce food on 2 different standards for export and domestic purposes.

No trade deal with the US will replace the huge trade they do with the EU anyway.

Kidchameleon

kunst nugget wrote: »

Considering the abortion referendum was won 67% to 33%, it was a pretty clear result with no close margin. It also had a clearly defined outcome so people knew exactly what they were voting for. It would be a bit silly to rerun it especially when there is no call for it to be rerun. It is the complete opposite of the Brexit referendum.

52>48

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

52>48

Since it's manifestly (apparently) the will of the people why not go again and get more than a 4% margin?
Wouldn't that shut up the so-called 'Remoaners' once and for all?

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No trade deal with the US will replace the huge trade they do with the EU anyway.

I suppose that's the plan. Why trade with your next door neighbour when you Could trade with the neighbour on the other side of the Atlantic?

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

52>48

We know exactly what the 48 voted for. What did the 52 vote for?

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

kunst nugget wrote: »

Considering the abortion referendum was won 67% to 33%, it was a pretty clear result with no close margin. It also had a clearly defined outcome so people knew exactly what they were voting for. It would be a bit silly to rerun it especially when there is no call for it to be rerun. It is the complete opposite of the Brexit referendum.

52>48

Your spot on 52 is greater than 48, a lot of people wouldn't be able to work that out

RobMc59

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well I think that is a bit much.

But I know one thing if we do have huge economic fallout from Brexit here it will REALLY make the uk unpopular here. And politicians will be the first to point the finger at someone else like the uk so they don't become fall guys.

Judging by what I`ve read on boards in the last 12 months I don`t think the UK can get any more unpopular in Ireland than it already is-which is expected as Britain has behaved badly over brexit imo.

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

Judging by what I`ve read on boards in the last 12 months I don`t think the UK can get any more unpopular in Ireland than it already is-which is expected as Britain has behaved badly over brexit imo.

When was it ever popular?

The Irish never miss an opportunity to criticise the British, at anything.

Newspapers articles criticising and sneering at British politicians is an almost daily event, there’s even a poster on this thread who has decided that everyone thinks the British are **** and hopes they suffer from Brexit.

A newspaper article having a pop at Leo though is classed as anti Irish bile.

You give it, you should be able to take it. Something that a lot of Irish can’t do.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

When was it ever popular?

The Irish never miss an opportunity to criticise the British, at anything.

Newspapers articles criticising and answering at British politicians is an almost daily event, there’s even a poster on this thread who has decided that everyone thinks the British are **** and hopes they suffer from Brexit.

A newspaper article having a pop at Leo though is classed as anti Irish bile.

You give it, you should be able to take it. Something that a lot of Irish can’t do.

What Irish newspapers have ever conducted a campaign like the one against Varadkar at the minute.

Enough of your nonsense. Link to sustained negative press on one issue or lie down.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'm getting very annoyed with the UK. There language to us throughout the process is nothing short of insulting.

Ah in fairness, at least we haven't had any very senior Tory come out and say that as a Brexit negotiating strategy Britain should prevent... food supplies getting to the Irish.

...

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Judging by what I`ve read on boards in the last 12 months I don`t think the UK can get any more unpopular in Ireland than it already is-which is expected as Britain has behaved badly over brexit imo.

When was it ever popular?

The Irish never miss an opportunity to criticise the British, at anything.

Newspapers articles criticising and sneering at British politicians is an almost daily event, there’s even a poster on this thread who has decided that everyone thinks the British are **** and hopes they suffer from Brexit.

A newspaper article having a pop at Leo though is classed as anti Irish bile.

You give it, you should be able to take it. Something that a lot of Irish can’t do.

We took it for a long time from the t sorry brits. Wheel turning, o i cant wait, I hope Ken Clarke doesn't mess it up ( I like him)

Calhoun

When are the Irish constantly having a go at the Brits? We are terrible bullies arent we .

There is a high level of condescension that comes from the British and the media at times when it comes to Ireland , so of course folk aren't going to be happy about it.

Do we have an influx of British posters here or just pro-british? I mean how you can see one thing but not the other I don't know.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-boris-johnson-is-the-fool-who-would-play-the-king-1.3928461?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Ffintan-o-toole-boris-johnson-is-the-fool-who-would-play-the-king-1.3928461

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-gove-s-cocaine-use-may-explain-his-attack-on-the-peace-process-1.3921000?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Ffintan-o-toole-gove-s-cocaine-use-may-explain-his-attack-on-the-peace-process-1.3921000

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-gambler-johnson-cant-be-trusted-as-he-plays-poker-with-eu-over-brexit-the-border-and-the-backstop-38341126.html

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-between-zealot-brexiteers-lameduck-may-and-dup-fanatics-hopes-of-sensible-outcome-look-entirely-lost-37955163.html

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-the-tory-party-is-now-a-cult-full-of-brexit-zealots-so-what-better-leader-for-it-than-hustler-boris-38232668.html

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose that's the plan. Why trade with your next door neighbour when you Could trade with the neighbour on the other side of the Atlantic?

the two aren't mutually exclusive you know.

ChikiChiki

Deleted User wrote: »

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'm getting very annoyed with the UK. There language to us throughout the process is nothing short of insulting.

Ah in fairness, at least we haven't had any very senior Tory come out and say that as a Brexit negotiating strategy Britain should prevent... food supplies getting to the Irish.

...

That tbh was the comment that really pissed me off and made me take notice of the language of Brexiteers. Priti Patel of all people. She obviously didn't bother informing herself of Britain's past activities in Ireland. Her own background was treated badly by the Empire too.

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-boris-johnson-is-the-fool-who-would-play-the-king-1.3928461?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Ffintan-o-toole-boris-johnson-is-the-fool-who-would-play-the-king-1.3928461

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-gove-s-cocaine-use-may-explain-his-attack-on-the-peace-process-1.3921000?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Ffintan-o-toole-gove-s-cocaine-use-may-explain-his-attack-on-the-peace-process-1.3921000

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-gambler-johnson-cant-be-trusted-as-he-plays-poker-with-eu-over-brexit-the-border-and-the-backstop-38341126.html

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-between-zealot-brexiteers-lameduck-may-and-dup-fanatics-hopes-of-sensible-outcome-look-entirely-lost-37955163.html

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colette-browne-the-tory-party-is-now-a-cult-full-of-brexit-zealots-so-what-better-leader-for-it-than-hustler-boris-38232668.html

Those papers should be banned here and replaced with the sun , the Express and the telegraph for a fair and balanced print media