Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Danzy

RobMc59 wrote: »

I would love to see Johnson shown up as the wind bag he is and Britain to revoke art 50 and hope the EU,especially Ireland would forgive us but it would probably take a long time and would only happen if the UK changed its political system-all brexit has shown is how much the privileged elite control everything imo

The very most of the privileged elite are for Remain.

First Up

Danzy wrote: »

The very most of the privileged elite are for Remain.

Call them the "privileged elite" if you like but they include most of those who have the education, skills and resources to create wealth, run the country and influence how the world works.

A referendum allocates the same weight to the opinion of an entrepreneur with the skills and vision to create thousands of jobs and an uneducated Sun reading layabout who spends his days in the bookies and boozer.

That might please those with a simplistic understanding of democracy but its an awful stupid way to run a country - as the UK is in the process of finding out.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're probably right but it would be stupid no to try for a deal. If they weren't still negotiating they wouldn't be posturing and mucky waving

While that's of course plausible, with a "happy" ending whereby the Brexiteers are given just enough to pass Brexit off to their supporters as some form of symbolic victory, while the substance in effect ensures no other state will be encouraged to have its own Brexit. The EU will need to send that message, so that severely limits any benign ending to England's membership of the EU.

However, it's also conceivable that Brexiteers are merely fine tuning their scapegoats, because the one certainty of Brexit is that they will need to scapegoat the EU when Brexit is exposed as the populist duping of a nation that it is.

Blueshoe

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

declanflynn

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

I want to see a no deal brexit too

RobMc59

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

I don`t want to see any kind of brexit.

Blueshoe

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don`t want to see any kind of brexit.

Democracy though

Junkyard Tom

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

declanflynn wrote: »

I want to see a no deal brexit too

So does Jacob Rees Mogg... think about that.

Blueshoe

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So does Jacob Rees Mogg... think about that.

I want it more now.

Moggy isn't the worst of them.

declanflynn

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

declanflynn wrote: »

I want to see a no deal brexit too

So does Jacob Rees Mogg... think about that.

He deserve it

Kidchameleon

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone else want to see a no deal Brexit or is it just me?

Id love it to happen. Other countries will watch Britain prosper and then leave themselves without having to worry about "negociating" with the EU. Referendum, Article 50, see yis later lads. No more meddeling from Brussels

Calina

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Id love it to happen. Other countries will watch Britain prosper and then leave themselves without having to worry about "negociating" with the EU. Referendum, Article 50, see yis later lads. No more meddeling from Brussels

IIRC Rees Mogg suggested it would take up to 50 years for the benefits to be felt.

That sacrifices two working generations if not three. When even the biggest cheerleader for this insanity is talking about waiting that long, I think the domino effect is unlikely bar a black swan event. That being said, the idiots in the US trying to cause a trade war and slowing down the world economy won't help anyone.

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Id love it to happen. Other countries will watch Britain prosper and then leave themselves without having to worry about "negociating" with the EU. Referendum, Article 50, see yis later lads. No more meddeling from Brussels

But, that is idiotic.

The UK will need a deal and the WA is not going away, the terms could lose a lot of the compromises currently within the WA by the time the UK gets back, much weaker, looking for a deal.

Kidchameleon

Everyone will still trade with Britain dont worry

ILoveYourVibes

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Everyone will still trade with Britain dont worry

Lets hope so.

How though? If they are not in the EU and they have no trade deals?

Calina

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Everyone will still trade with Britain dont worry

But their trade profile will change and currently every single projection is for it to have a profoundly negative impact on the economic health of their country. The UK imports half its food, so they have to trade. But it will come at practical and economic costs.

In fact, the uncertainty is already causing a negative impact on investment decisions. And sterling might be very intetesting tomirrow in light of the Sunday Times report today.

Kidchameleon

Calina wrote: »

In fact, the uncertainty is already causing a negative impact on investment decisions. And sterling might be very intetesting tomirrow in light of the Sunday Times report today.

Yes indeed, uncertainty is one of the things Borris wants to end. He will leave at the end of October, deal or no deal to end the uncertainty

Kidchameleon

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Lets hope so.

How though? If they are not in the EU and they have no trade deals?

Many countries are not in the EU and have negociated their own trade deals.

FrancieBrady

Calina wrote: »

But their trade profile will change and currently every single projection is for it to have a profoundly negative impact on the economic health of their country. The UK imports half its food, so they have to trade. But it will come at practical and economic costs.

In fact, the uncertainty is already causing a negative impact on investment decisions. And sterling might be very intetesting tomirrow in light of the Sunday Times report today.

Kidchameleon has bought into the 'the world owes us a living because we were once somebody' spiel.
Afraid not...the UK will need a deal and has already burned a lot of bridges. 'No Deal' would be burning the last bridge.

Wanderer78

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

In fact, the uncertainty is already causing a negative impact on investment decisions. And sterling might be very intetesting tomirrow in light of the Sunday Times report today.

Yes indeed, uncertainty is one of the things Borris wants to end. He will leave at the end of October, deal or no deal to end the uncertainty

Hahaha, brexiteers are nuts

Kidchameleon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kidchameleon has bought into the 'the world owes us a living because we were once somebody' spiel.
Afraid not...the UK will need a deal and has already burned a lot of bridges. 'No Deal' would be burning the last bridge.

I have not said that at all and can speak for myself thanks. They have a huge economy and many many countries consume their output and will continue to do so.

First Up

Calina wrote: »

But their trade profile will change and currently every single projection is for it to have a profoundly negative impact on the economic health of their country. The UK imports half its food, so they have to trade. But it will come at practical and economic costs.

In fact, the uncertainty is already causing a negative impact on investment decisions. And sterling might be very intetesting tomirrow in light of the Sunday Times report today.

They can still trade with anyone - and anyone with them - but on terms no better (and in some cases much worse) than now.

But I wouldn't bother trying to explain the consequences and complexities of that to the brexity dunces you meet here. They'll find out.

Seth Brundle

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Everyone will still trade with Britain dont worry

To whose advantage?
Britain has much less to offer as an individual rather than as part of a larger entity.
The US are already lining up to give the UK a poor deal. Even the Faroe islands walked away with a much better deal from the UK than vice versa.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Many countries are not in the EU and have negociated their own trade deals.

As good as the several hundred trade deals that the UK currently have as a member if the EU?

Calina

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yes indeed, uncertainty is one of the things Borris wants to end. He will leave at the end of October, deal or no deal to end the uncertainty

I take it you have seen today's Sunday Times on Yellowhammer.

Possible disaster is bad. Certain disaster is worse.

RasTa

Be grand, we will be dead soon after we retire.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-raise-state-pension-age-18953679

Danzy

First Up wrote: »

Call them the "privileged elite" if you like but they include most of those who have the education, skills and resources to create wealth, run the country and influence how the world works.

A referendum allocates the same weight to the opinion of an entrepreneur with the skills and vision to create thousands of jobs and an uneducated Sun reading layabout who spends his days in the bookies and boozer.

That might please those with a simplistic understanding of democracy but its an awful stupid way to run a country - as the UK is in the process of finding out.

Until you get your dictatorship Socrates, that ain't going to happen.

Remember how it ended with hemlock, advocating the same line.

TonyD79

Danzy wrote: »

The very most of the privileged elite are for Remain.

Last time I checked the privileged elite that went to Eton are supporting a no deal and saying WTO rules will be ok. If only the working class masses wanted to leave there wouldn’t have been a referendum in the first place.

First Up

Calina wrote: »

I take it you have seen today's Sunday Times on Yellowhammer.

Possible disaster is bad. Certain disaster is worse.

Queues at the ports and some empty supermarket shelves will make the headlines at first but the long term decline will be more serious and harder to fix.

UK companies will be squeezed out of EU supply chains (both directions), non-EU countries will move their EU distribution centres elsewhere, the UK's 3d country trade deals will be weaker than those they enjoy in the EU and they will lose foreign investment (to Ireland among others). All of this is already happening.

That's before them being excluded from collaboration in science, technology and R&D and losing their place at the table when negotiating with the big boys like China and US.

They'll take back control alright; just not of anything that matters very much.

First Up

Danzy wrote: »

Until you get your dictatorship Socrates, that ain't going to happen.

Remember how it ended with hemlock, advocating the same line.

Not dictatorship - just representative democracy working the way it is supposed to. You vote for people equipped and qualified to deal with complex issues. You don't duck responsibility for them and call it "democracy".

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Id love it to happen. Other countries will watch Britain prosper and then leave themselves without having to worry about "negociating" with the EU. Referendum, Article 50, see yis later lads. No more meddeling from Brussels

Britain is doomed outside the EU.