Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

you are trying to put me in a convenient box. i get it, it's what you republicans do. You're either with us or against us.

For the millionth time, i am not a Brexiteer. I am no fan of the establishment that is the EU, I prefer less government, not more of it and the eu just gives us loads of over paid, self important politicians and public servants I don't think we need.

A unified europe speaking with one voice is fine, but to try and treat us as all being the same and pass legislation based on some form of model eu citizen is too far. It is a slide in to a federal europe which is something I oppose.

All very noble Aegir. It is just that your posting history here on this very thread seems to suggest you are hell bent on supporting those who wish to Brexit and rubbishing anyone, like Ireland, who stands up to them.

Tis not me that is making a box..it is you.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All very noble Aegir. It is just that your posting history here on this very thread seems to suggest you are hell bent on supporting those who wish to Brexit and rubbishing anyone, like Ireland, who stands up to them.

Tis not me that is making a box..it is you.

examples please.

Danzy

Don't like Boris or Mogg but the moralizing b.s. in the last few pages is hard to listen to.

Primary School stuff. Who will tell teacher?

Danzy

is_that_so wrote: »

They seem to have quite a bit of support according to this.

https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1166988462161092608

You can see here why he is politicking in the way he is, get that No Confidence motion, on to snap election.

Return with a mandate.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

examples please.

FFS...are you forgetting all the posts like this?

Gold infused Celtic tiger pineapple of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how quick the Irish are to declare themselves “rich”.

It does beg the question as to why the infrastructure in this country is creaking and there are little, if any, plans to improve it.

Maybe it’s because all those tax loopholes have made the government kid people in to believing they are rich, but aren’t actually getting any benefit from it.

Own your stuff Aegir. You are some chancer, like the bould Boris.

Stop moaning ffs

Danzy wrote: »

You can see here why he is politicking in the way he is, get that No Confidence motion, on to snap election.

Return with a mandate.

Can he tough. I don’t think he’ll get a majority never mind a mandate. Loads of tories yesterday furious with him over his stunt yesterday

splinter65

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well it does make a difference. they are attempting to bypass parliament. Parliament is sovereign. Brexiteers go on about taking back control but i dont believe they intended that control to be the sole purview of the prime minister.

The point is though that there’s nothing can be done about it. It’s totally legal. It might not be the”right” thing to do but no laws are being broken.
If the only way at this point in time to see the will of the people be brought to fruition is to do this then this is what has to be done.
I heard the shadow trade Secretary this morning on the BBC saying that they are going to push for an extension.
****s sake.
If you were pining your hopes on the Labour Party preventing Brexit somehow then you really should’ve known better.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FFS...are you forgetting all the posts like this?

Own your stuff Aegir. You are some chancer, like the bould Boris.

oh Francis

splinter65

Danzy wrote: »

You can see here why he is politicking in the way he is, get that No Confidence motion, on to snap election.

Return with a mandate.

The PM says he will ignore a carried no confidence motion but will call a GE.
After Brexit.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

oh Francis

Yeh...i kinda expected that response from you Aegir. The internet equivalent of sticking your tongue out and your fingers in your ears.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh...i kinda expected that response from you Aegir. The internet equivalent of sticking your tongue out and your fingers in your ears.

can you stop desperately trying to prove yourself right. you rarely are.

Give me one example of where I have shown any form of support for Brexit please. You seem to think there is loads, so it should be really easy.

Alternatively, I will accept "Sorry, you were right, I made an assumption and I was wrong".

Or you could, you know, just drop it.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

can you stop desperately trying to prove yourself right. you rarely are.

Give me one example of where I have shown any form of support for Brexit please. You seem to think there is loads, so it should be really easy.

Alternatively, I will accept "Sorry, you were right, I made an assumption and I was wrong".

Or you could, you know, just drop it.

Demean everything and anything and anyone that is against Brexit but never have the courage to express what you really think about it yourself.

Failure to criticise Boris's latest move (something which you would 'normally' be against :rolleyes:) even though you know he is lying about it, being your latest example of 'not supporting' Brexit.
If you didn't truly support Brexit we might expect to see just a smidgen of support for those who are against it, but no, it is all out attack and demeaning of those who would dare to oppose the British.

So no 'Sorrys' here Aegir.

MrMusician18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Demean everything and anything and anyone that is against Brexit but never have the courage to express what you really think about it yourself.

Failure to criticise Boris's latest move (something which you would 'normally' be against :rolleyes:) even though you know he is lying about it, being your latest example of 'not supporting' Brexit.
If you didn't truly support Brexit we might expect to see just a smidgen of support for those who are against it, but no, it is all out attack and demeaning of those who would dare to oppose the British.

So no 'Sorrys' here Aegir.

Is aegir one of those posters that doesn't support X but supports those that are in favour of X?

One might argue that you have a similar approach to Sinn Fein?

That's a fairly common strategy on online forums, there must be a name for it.

FrancieBrady

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Is aegir one of those posters that doesn't support X but supports those that are in favour of X?

One might argue that you have a similar approach to Sinn Fein?

That's a fairly common strategy on online forums, there must be a name for it.

I have never hid the fact that I am a republican. If there is crossover there with SF, I make no apology for that either. I would have similar crossovers with other parties.

None of which I am a member of or 'support' in the sense I am uncritical of them.

My criticisms of Britain are always framed in an Irish or EU context and how their actions impinge on both, I would never for instance, visit a British forum and snipe at all things British as a personal Irish vanity project.

Aegir is a type of ex pat who routinely engages in that across this site, and deserves to be called on it imo, there are others too.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Demean everything and anything and anyone that is against Brexit but never have the courage to express what you really think about it yourself.

examples please

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Failure to criticise Boris's latest move (something which you would 'normally' be against :rolleyes:) even though you know he is lying about it, being your latest example of 'not supporting' Brexit.

I made my position very clear on that. You seem to have a problem withmy logic. Please explain why.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you didn't truly support Brexit we might expect to see just a smidgen of support for those who are against it, but no, it is all out attack and demeaning of those who would dare to oppose the British.

So no 'Sorrys' here Aegir.

When people post something that is reasonable, then i will support it. 90% of this thread is little more than just people like you, Fauranach and deco sniping and showing your true colours. lots and lots of words and lots of uneducated waffle and rhetoric, but very little in the way of actual positive comment.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never hid the fact that I am a republican. If there is crossover there with SF, I make no apology for that either. I would have similar crossovers with other parties.

None of which I am a member of or 'support' in the sense I am uncritical of them.

My criticisms of Britain are always framed in an Irish or EU context and how their actions impinge on both, I would never for instance, visit a British forum and snipe at all things British as a personal Irish vanity project.

Aegir is a type of ex pat who routinely engages in that across this site, and deserves to be called on it imo, there are others too.

you can say it as much as you like Francis, it will never be true. As much as you like it to.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

examples please



I made my position very clear on that. You seem to have a problem withmy logic. Please explain why.



When people post something that is reasonable, then i will support it. 90% of this thread is little more than just people like you, Fauranach and deco sniping and showing your true colours. lots and lots of words and lots of uneducated waffle and rhetoric, but very little in the way of actual positive comment.

The title of the thread is: Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit?

What were you expecting only criticism of Britain's fear to enact the 'will' of the people?

Of course you are only here to try and demean the Irish position (which is essentially wait for them to make up their fractured minds) which is what you do on any thread that is critical of British actions, past and present, that impinge on us.

Own it Aegir, because you are not codding anyone.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.ft.com/content/5127a0de-c4ee-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

Little bit off topic but here’s an article about how uk farms are struggling to attract seasonal workers. Most of the farm workers come from Bulgaria and Romania and only a couple of percent are British.

The article says they are struggling to get the staff and more have had to leave some crops unharvested this year as a result. The article sites the weak pound, competition from mainland Europe and uncertainty over work visas post Brexit.

I was struck by the way they said the farms were forced to increase spend on wages and recruitment. In middle class industries we’d say its wonderful as wages are rising but when reporting on the lowest paid getting a pay increase, its a dreadful outcome.

Imagine how much higher wages would have to go to get unemployed British people to do the work... they’d have to drive up the price of goods on the middle class, heaven forbid -also known as increasing wages for the poor.

I bring this up because I wonder what effect it will have on the Brexit deal (whether it’s struck before or after they leave). Freedom of movement is bound to be a big part of the deal for the British. Otherwise they’d have to pay the British poor people higher wages to do the work.

Stop moaning ffs

Couple that with the end of free movement on October 31st and you realize their doing very intentionally and it’s going to cause untold harm to farming among other industries

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/threat-to-end-freedom-of-movement-overnight-reckless-say-eu-citizens

El_Duderino 09

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Couple that with the end of free movement on October 31st and you realize their doing very intentionally and it’s going to cause untold harm to farming among other industries

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/threat-to-end-freedom-of-movement-overnight-reckless-say-eu-citizens

Yes but. No deal doesn’t mean no deal ever. It means leaving with no deal so they can start negotiations next day without a deadline which probably suits the UK. They will want access to the European market before the Europeans find alternative suppliers and they have to fight for their market share again.

I suspect the uk will pretend they don’t want free movement but in reality they are desperate for it and will concede free movement in exchange for something it wants.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a deal to allow unskilled workers in to keep the price of labour down. Seasonal workers would be exactly the kind of thing they would want to keep the tourism, service and farming industries going on the cheap.

Stop moaning ffs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes but. No deal doesn’t mean no deal ever. It means no deal so they can start negotiations without a deadline which probably suits the UK. They will want access to the European market before the Europeans find alternative suppliers and they have to fight for their market share again.

I suspect the uk will pretend they don’t want free movement but in reality they are desperate for it and will concede free movement in exchange for something it wants.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a deal to allow unskilled workers in to keep the price of labour down. Seasonal workers would be exactly the kind of thing they would want to keep the tourism, service and farming industries going on the cheap.

And when they come looking for the deal with the EU freedom of movement is on of the three issues on the table. I don’t believe they’re going to carry through on the threats myself. It’s war talk in the run up to th deadline

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All very noble Aegir. It is just that your posting history here on this very thread seems to suggest you are hell bent on supporting those who wish to Brexit and rubbishing anyone, like Ireland, who stands up to them.

Tis not me that is making a box..it is you.

examples please.

You can hear the odd penny drop about what is going to happen after a no deal brexit, I really hope not too many drop before the british go out with no deal it will be no fun if they get a deal

declanflynn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Aegir wrote: »

examples please.

FFS...are you forgetting all the posts like this?

Gold infused Celtic tiger pineapple of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how quick the Irish are to declare themselves “rich”.

It does beg the question as to why the infrastructure in this country is creaking and there are little, if any, plans to improve it.

Maybe it’s because all those tax loopholes have made the government kid people in to believing they are rich, but aren’t actually getting any benefit from it.

Own your stuff Aegir. You are some chancer, like the bould Boris.

Francie you should encourage the Brits/ west brits to go for a no deal, they accept half truths and lies much easier than facts and the truth

Stop moaning ffs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

And when they come looking for the deal with the EU freedom of movement is on of the three issues on the table. I don’t believe they’re going to carry through on the threats myself. It’s war talk in the run up to th deadline

free movement of people is only a condition of being in the EU. Trade deals do not involve free movement of people.

Stop moaning ffs

Aegir wrote: »

free movement of people is only a condition of being in the EU. Trade deals do not involve free movement of people.

The Eu heads have said repeatedly if it’s no deal the three issues on the table after are freedom of movement the border issue and the divorce settlement. There’ll be no deals until those three are resolved.

Stop moaning ffs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The Eu heads have said repeatedly if it’s no deal the three issues on the table after are freedom of movement the border issue and the divorce settlement. There’ll be no deals until those three are resolved.

divorce settlement, Irish border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK, is my understanding. Not free movement of people.

Stop moaning ffs

Aegir wrote: »

divorce settlement, Irish border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK, is my understanding. Not free movement of people.

Are they not intertwined? Thanks for the correction I musta misread

Stop moaning ffs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Are they not intertwined? Thanks for the correction I musta misread

yes and no. EU citizens in the UK on the date of withdrawal will effectively have freedom of movement, but after that, anyone entering the UK does so as a straight forward "Alien".

Stop moaning ffs

Aegir wrote: »

free movement of people is only a condition of being in the EU. Trade deals do not involve free movement of people.

It won’t be that that’s the problem anyways. It’ll be the border and the backstop will be the big hold up. Unless they make it NI only and border in the sea. He could get the deal through the house if it was that set up.

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never hid the fact that I am a republican. If there is crossover there with SF, I make no apology for that either. I would have similar crossovers with other parties.

None of which I am a member of or 'support' in the sense I am uncritical of them.

My criticisms of Britain are always framed in an Irish or EU context and how their actions impinge on both, I would never for instance, visit a British forum and snipe at all things British as a personal Irish vanity project.

Aegir is a type of ex pat who routinely engages in that across this site, and deserves to be called on it imo, there are others too.

you can say it as much as you like Francis, it will never be true. As much as you like it to.

Good man francie