Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

gmisk

Brexiteer wrote: »

To use the words of the man himself, "im afraid this chap doesnt know what he is talking about"

Search for "Jeremy Corbyn Attacks Jacob over his Investment Fund (Again)" on youtube. it wont let me post links. it shows the response to this by rees mogg himself

it is hilarious that any normal profits made by any brexiteer in the last 3 years is now seen as fishy by the desperate!

I cant see any video by that title on youtube.
To be honest I prefer to deal in facts.....Jacob Rees Mogg is a seriously slippery customer.


once again.


Richest in Britain got 25BN richer since Brexit vote
- Their combined net worth is £83.6bn. Two Brexiteers are responsible for most of the gains.

Jim Ratcliffe and James Dyson, the founder of Dyson Ltd, have added a combined £15bn since the vote, according to the ranking, with Mr Ratcliffe displacing Hugh Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster, as Britain’s richest person.

---

To be honest if the whole Brexit thing wasnt going to impact on the economy in Ireland (and EU as a whole) I would say work away...go on set yourselves on fire!...but you know what it will.

Ireland hasnt been bullied into anything thankfully despite the efforts of Priti Patel and the like. In fact Ireland seems better prepared for a No deal brexit currently than the UK (when it comes to use of ports etc anyway).

What meaningful solution is Boris offering? He doesnt want the backstop.....him/DUP dont want a border so what is the solution Northern Ireland will no longer be in the EU? Seemingly Boris etc are saying "technology" - which hasnt been invented...and needs to be implemented by the end of October....lol

MadYaker

Aegir wrote: »

aah, ok. so because the return is so small, we should close our eyes to politicians and civil servants pissing away millions in their own self interest?



so what you are saying is that we should turn a bling eye if Leo decides to give himself a €500k pay rise, because in the grand scheme of things, it makes very little difference to the total state budget?



as I said earlier, it is a bogus analogy. The UK is a state and therefore provides direct services to its citizens. It has a police force, a military, it has border control, education, welfare, income tax to collect etc.

The EU is not a state, it does not provide direct services to its citizens, because it has none. Zero, zilch. All is actually has is the 45,000 or so people that work for it. 45,000 people who need three Presidents (all on over €300k per year, plus substantial living allowances and parachute salaries when they leave the role) to look after them.

It is civil service on steroids.

Would this be a common view in the UK? I guess if lots of other people share this warped view of the EU you could see how brexit would get support. Sad really.

Peregrinus

Aegir wrote: »

aah, ok. so because the return is so small, we should close our eyes to politicians and civil servants pissing away millions in their own self interest?

No. I'm just saying that Brexit isn't a rational or proportionate response to the problem. It's a response that does far, far more harm to Britain than the problem does.

Aegir wrote: »

so what you are saying is that we should turn a bling eye if Leo decides to give himself a €500k pay rise, because in the grand scheme of things, it makes very little difference to the total state budget?

Again, no, I'm not saying that.

Aegir wrote: »

as I said earlier, it is a bogus analogy. The UK is a state and therefore provides direct services to its citizens. It has a police force, a military, it has border control, education, welfare, income tax to collect etc.

The EU is not a state, it does not provide direct services to its citizens, because it has none. Zero, zilch. All is actually has is the 45,000 or so people that work for it. 45,000 people who need three Presidents (all on over €300k per year, plus substantial living allowances and parachute salaries when they leave the role) to look after them.

It is civil service on steroids.

Nitpick: The EU has 500 milliion citizens.

I don't think you can claim that the EU is overstaffed by pointing to the things it doesn't do; I think you have to look at what it does do. And what it does do, of course, is (among other things) enable, facilitate and implement the single market.

I mentioned earlier that participation in the SM was calculated to have benefited the UK to the tune of 4% of GDP. It has benefitted all member states to a greater or lesser extent; UK is about mid-range. Taking 4% as the average, a back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that the EU creates about 680 billion euros of wealth for its member states each year. So, produce a reasoned argument, please, as to whether the cost of paying for the EU bureacracy is disproportionate to the wealth created by participation in the EU. Otherwise, stop banging on about this. It's a problem, but if you can't make that argument it's not a problem that's terribly relevant to Brexit.

gmisk

MadYaker wrote: »

Would this be a common view in the UK? I guess if lots of other people share this warped view of the EU you could see how brexit would get support. Sad really.

I think it is unfortunately....and the areas that seemed to have swallowed it wholesale are the ones that are most likely going to be badly effected.


I would say look at the people spouting Brexit rubbish...do you trust a word that comes from them? Nigel Farage? JRM?

Seriously?!?!


Of course there has already been a massive amount of damage done to the UK economy but its just the beginning.


I have a friend who works for the European drugs agency for example...thats about 1500 jobs gone to Amsterdam...id say there are a tonne more examples. But hey we can take back the borders...and get rid of the foreigners.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

Would this be a common view in the UK? I guess if lots of other people share this warped view of the EU you could see how brexit would get support. Sad really.

in what way is it warped?

Brexiteer

Peregrinus wrote: »

But as we know from yesterday, Rees-Mogg is a bare-faced liar. So his rebuttal of criticisms is, um, not to be taken as gospel.

I'm not saying he is moving his money abroad. My guess would be that much of it has always been abroad. All I'm saying is that his own statements about what he is doing and why are not particularly compelling.

You want to talk about liars?? here is some from the remain campaign....

the EU army is a dangerous fantasy

once we vote to leave, gdp in the uk will shrink by between 3.6% and 6% - that's just because of the vote to leave, before we've even left!

we will need an immediate emergency budget if leave wins

every uk family will be $4,300 worse off

the uk would be at the back of the queue for any USA trade deal

article 50 would be invoked immediately

the jungle of calais would immediately move to kent

the best one of all - leaving the eu and setting up a hard border will breach the good friday agreement.

Brexiteer

gmisk wrote: »

I cant see any video by that title on youtube.
To be honest I prefer to deal in facts.....Jacob Rees Mogg is a seriously slippery customer.


once again.


Richest in Britain got 25BN richer since Brexit vote
- Their combined net worth is £83.6bn. Two Brexiteers are responsible for most of the gains.

Jim Ratcliffe and James Dyson, the founder of Dyson Ltd, have added a combined £15bn since the vote, according to the ranking, with Mr Ratcliffe displacing Hugh Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster, as Britain’s richest person.

---

To be honest if the whole Brexit thing wasnt going to impact on the economy in Ireland (and EU as a whole) I would say work away...go on set yourselves on fire!...but you know what it will.

Ireland hasnt been bullied into anything thankfully despite the efforts of Priti Patel and the like. In fact Ireland seems better prepared for a No deal brexit currently than the UK (when it comes to use of ports etc anyway).

What meaningful solution is Boris offering? He doesnt want the backstop.....him/DUP dont want a border so what is the solution Northern Ireland will no longer be in the EU? Seemingly Boris etc are saying "technology" - which hasnt been invented...and needs to be implemented by the end of October....lol

you didnt look very hard

one of the many flaws in your argument, the person who was overtaken as the richest man in the uk, the Duke of Westminster, is also a leaver!

gmisk

Brexiteer wrote: »

you didnt look very hard

one of the many flaws in your argument, the person who was overtaken as the richest man in the uk, the Duke of Westminster, is also a leaver!

You didnt read the story.
Since the Brexit vote.....25BN in gains...15BN of that is from those 2 Brexiteers....:rolleyes:

---

Richest in Britain got 25BN richer since Brexit vote
- Their combined net worth is £83.6bn. Two Brexiteers are responsible for most of the gains.

Jim Ratcliffe and James Dyson, the founder of Dyson Ltd, have added a combined £15bn since the vote, according to the ranking, with Mr Ratcliffe displacing Hugh Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster, as Britain’s richest person.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

I think it is unfortunately....and the areas that seemed to have swallowed it wholesale are the ones that are most likely going to be badly effected.


I would say look at the people spouting Brexit rubbish...do you trust a word that comes from them? Nigel Farage? JRM?

Seriously?!?!


Of course there has already been a massive amount of damage done to the UK economy but its just the beginning.


I have a friend who works for the European drugs agency for example...thats about 1500 jobs gone to Amsterdam...id say there are a tonne more examples. But hey we can take back the borders...and get rid of the foreigners.

the EMA has 897 employees according to its website, but it is still a loss to the UK, obviously.

But please explain how what I have written is rubbish?

Brexiteer

gmisk wrote: »

You didnt read the story.
Since the Brexit vote.....25BN in gains...15BN of that is from those 2 Brexiteers....:rolleyes:

---

Richest in Britain got 25BN richer since Brexit vote
- Their combined net worth is £83.6bn. Two Brexiteers are responsible for most of the gains.

Jim Ratcliffe and James Dyson, the founder of Dyson Ltd, have added a combined £15bn since the vote, according to the ranking, with Mr Ratcliffe displacing Hugh Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster, as Britain’s richest person.

Given that 52% of the nation are brexiteers (apparently closer to 60% now), it stands to reason that bexiteers would make more money. 2 isnt exactly a convincing sample size. Nothing said about the other £60 billion?

First Up

Brexiteer wrote: »

you didnt look very hard

one of the many flaws in your argument, the person who was overtaken as the richest man in the uk, the Duke of Westminster, is also a leaver!

I don't think he acquired his wealth by producing goods for export.

Brexiteer

First Up wrote: »

I don't think he acquired his wealth by producing goods for export.

neither did jacob rees mogg

gmisk

Aegir wrote: »

the EMA has 897 employees according to its website, but it is still a loss to the UK, obviously.

But please explain how what I have written is rubbish?

Is your name Jacob Rees Mogg or Nigel Farage? - maybe read what I wrote?
Were you on TV constantly advocating for Brexit?



There were due to be more jobs moved to London from what he had said....now not only do they not get those jobs (I should say these are good...really well paid ones) they loose the 900 odd jobs they had.

gmisk

Brexiteer wrote: »

neither did jacob rees mogg

Neither is he on that list of the richest people in the uk....but the two big advocates for Brexit on the list have increased their fortune by 15BN since brexit.

Brexiteer

gmisk wrote: »

Neither is he on that list of the richest people in the uk....but the two big advocates for Brexit on the list have increased their fortune by 15BN since brexit.

i dont really care. its quite a leap to conclude this occurred because of some corrupt motivations in the leave campaign as you are insinuating

gmisk

Brexiteer wrote: »

i dont really care. its quite a leap to conclude this occurred because of some corrupt motivations in the leave campaign as you are insinuating

I dont really care that you don't really care.....I gave you facts about who has profited most since Brexit.

Brexiteer

gmisk wrote: »

I dont really care that you don't really care.....I gave you facts about who has profited most since Brexit.

you didn't just give facts tho - you made a ridiculous insinuation

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Is your name Jacob Rees Mogg or Nigel Farage? - maybe read what I wrote?
Were you on TV constantly advocating for Brexit?

ad hominem usually means you can't respond to the question. You agreed with someone who said my post was rubbish, so why do you think that?

gmisk wrote: »

There were due to be more jobs moved to London from what he had said....now not only do they not get those jobs (I should say these are good...really well paid ones) they loose the 900 odd jobs they had.

the European Medicine agency employs 890 people in the UK and the Banking Agency 184.

These are a big loss to the UK, I agree. I was correcting your numbers though.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ema-eba-staff-london-benefits/

Stop moaning ffs

Brexiteer wrote: »

i dont really care. its quite a leap to conclude this occurred because of some corrupt motivations in the leave campaign as you are insinuating

You seem unaware of farage being involved in insider trading and cohorts of his making millions betting against the pound the night of the referendum result

You seem unaware of one of Johnson’s biggest donors to the tune of 20 million has bet 300 million against British companies on the stock market.

You seem unaware that Moggs father wrote the actual book on disaster capitalism and how to make millions off national crisis.

The people engineering brexit are doing it purely to make billions and get out of the Eu before the tax directive comes in

Junkyard Tom

If Jacob Rees Mogg was making a fortune from brexit related medicine shortages the cargo-cultists brexit crowd would say 'someone has to supply the body bags'.

Brexiteer

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You seem unaware of farage being involved in insider trading and cohorts of his making millions betting against the pound the night of the referendum result

You seem unaware of one of Johnson’s biggest donors to the tune of 20 million has bet 300 million against British companies on the stock market.

You seem unaware that Moggs father wrote the actual book on disaster capitalism and how to make millions off national crisis.

The people engineering brexit are doing it purely to make billions and get out of the Eu before the tax directive comes in

some are unproven, others are unrelated. investors make money regardless of the circumstance. but good that you admit there will be a tax directive whether ireland likes it or not, including standardising corporation tax. get ready for them to run like rats when ireland are suddenly moving towards corporation taxe percentages in the late 20's!

Stop moaning ffs

Brexiteer wrote: »

some are unproven, others are unrelated. investors make money regardless of the circumstance. but good that you admit there will be a tax directive whether ireland likes it or not, including standardising corporation tax. get ready for them to run like rats when ireland are suddenly moving towards corporation taxe percentages in the late 20's!

So you’re half aware everything I posted is fact and happened is happening yet don’t want to admit it and dig down into the fact that a super rich few elite in the UK are going to destroy the lives of 70 million Briton’s.

But screw your ireland you’re gonna get hit too.

Typical brexit cognitive dissonance

gmisk

Aegir wrote: »

ad hominem usually means you can't respond to the question. You agreed with someone who said my post was rubbish, so why do you think that?



the European Medicine agency employs 890 people in the UK and the Banking Agency 184.

These are a big loss to the UK, I agree. I was correcting your numbers though.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ema-eba-staff-london-benefits/

You will have to show me that - cant see it on my phone tbh.


You already corrected the figure...thats why I said 900 odd jobs in my response - it is just one example.


Do you know what at this stage...argue away about it....enjoy your red white and blue/hard brexit and the damage it will do to your economy, its just a shame other countries will have to deal with the knock on effect.

Brexiteer

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So you’re half aware everything I posted is fact and happened is happening yet don’t want to admit it and dig down into the fact that a super rich few elite in the UK are going to destroy the lives of 70 million Briton’s.

But screw your ireland you’re gonna get hit too.

Typical brexit cognitive dissonance

The super rich elite were the super rich elite before brexit. And by the way, there were more of them on the remain side of the campaign. i know its not convenient for you!

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

You will have to show me that - cant see it on my phone tbh.

ok, they used the term warped, but I would still like to see how it is. The EU pisses away millions a year in bloated salaries and expenses. See posts below.

gmisk wrote: »

You already corrected the figure...thats why I said 900 odd jobs in my response - it is just one example.

we are in violent agreement then

gmisk wrote: »

Do you know what at this stage...argue away about it....enjoy your red white and blue/hard brexit and the damage it will do to your economy, its just a shame other countries will have to deal with the knock on effect.

it is possible to be critical of the EU itself and not be a rabid brexiteer, unless you think the EU are above criticism. I would be equally critical of any government if it paid the kind of expenses the EU pays.

Writing things off as "In the grand scheme of things" is how people like Rody Molloy justified first class flights, five star hotels and paying for his wifes hair to be done. it isn't very much in relation to the billion euro budget FAS had, but it is still pissing away tax payers money.

MadYaker wrote: »

Would this be a common view in the UK? I guess if lots of other people share this warped view of the EU you could see how brexit would get support. Sad really.

gmisk wrote: »

I think it is unfortunately....and the areas that seemed to have swallowed it wholesale are the ones that are most likely going to be badly effected.


I would say look at the people spouting Brexit rubbish...do you trust a word that comes from them? Nigel Farage? JRM?

Seriously?!?!


Of course there has already been a massive amount of damage done to the UK economy but its just the beginning.


I have a friend who works for the European drugs agency for example...thats about 1500 jobs gone to Amsterdam...id say there are a tonne more examples. But hey we can take back the borders...and get rid of the foreigners.

FrancieBrady

Brexiteer wrote: »

The super rich elite were the super rich elite before brexit. And by the way, there were more of them on the remain side of the campaign. i know its not convenient for you!

The sad incontrovertible fact though is that the Leave side were more easily led thus requiring less elites to pull the con.

Brexiteer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The sad incontrovertible fact though is that the Leave side were more easily led thus requiring less elites to pull the con.

Come back to me in a year and tell me about the con again

#AlreadyTradeDealsWith38Countries!!

Danzy

Aegir wrote: »

So the EU is a good idea, I think we agree on that.

Imagine how much extra benefit the eu could give, if it wasn't pissing away so much money on gold plated pensions, parachute payments and rather generous schooling allowances for the kids of EU commissioners and presidents.

How many schools, hospitals or other actual needed services could the eu fund every year if it just stopped the almost criminal act of moving parliament to Strasbourg every now and then.

The EEC, the common market were good ideas.

Developing it in to the EU and especially the Euro were very bad ideas.

The Eurozone a dozen years ago was on a par with America's economy, it is now just under half as big now.

That is a story bigger than Brexit.

gmisk

Aegir wrote: »

ok, they used the term warped, but I would still like to see how it is. The EU pisses away millions a year in bloated salaries and expenses. See posts below.



we are in violent agreement then



it is possible to be critical of the EU itself and not be a rabid brexiteer, unless you think the EU are above criticism. I would be equally critical of any government if it paid the kind of expenses the EU pays.

Writing things off as "In the grand scheme of things" is how people like Rody Molloy justified first class flights, five star hotels and paying for his wifes hair to be done. it isn't very much in relation to the billion euro budget FAS had, but it is still pissing away tax payers money.

I personally wouldnt have used the term warped, but I agreed with the thrust of that the post said yes.


Of course it is possible to be critical of the EU - it has massive issues - but its already been demonstrated on this thread factually that is is financially beneficial - not to mention other benefits like free travel, improved protection for workers etc.


One positive thing which I think has come out of this is people will be even more weary of "irexit" there seemed to be negligible support for it (despite what Nigel Farage was trying to peddle on Claire Byrne).

Danzy

Brexiteer wrote: »

Come back to me in a year and tell me about the con again

#AlreadyTradeDealsWith38Countries!!

Mostly with countries with tiny economies or far away.

Japan has been a leading global economy for decades, open trade, yet Ireland still imports 3.5 times the value from Britain.

Proximity is more important in exports than agreements and often cost.