Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FrancieBrady

Blueshoe wrote: »

A deal or agreement was always going to be impossible. Too many different opinions and voices. A no deal is the only solution now.

And the much vaunted 'democracy' of the brexiteer will be put aside to get it.

That is dangerous route that this is now taking. You reap what you sow.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Faugheen wrote: »

Lol, and your thoughts on Boris shutting down Parliament since you’re so pro-democracy?

Not the same as Naziism.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, because the Nazis had no democratic mandate. Oh wait: the Nazi party received 43.91% of the vote in the March 1933 election. What did the Tory party get in their last election? 42.4% of the vote in the 2017 general election (we'll avoid the fact that about 1% of the British population voted for Boris Johnson as prime minister, of course)

The argument here is that any democratic Party that gets close to the 1933 Nazi total is Nazi? And we don’t directly elect prime ministers or taoisigh in parliamentary democracies.

As I said, Brexiteers, historical illiteracy, general ignorance and a desperate need for a foreign scapegoat are working hand in glove. Just as it was for the rise of Germany's populists in the 1930s, actually.

Both of ye are historically inept.

Blueshoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, because the Nazis had no democratic mandate. Oh wait: the Nazi party received 43.91% of the vote in the March 1933 election. What did the Tory party get in their last election? 42.4% of the vote in the 2017 general election (we'll avoid the fact that about 1% of the British population voted for Boris Johnson as prime minister, of course)


As I said, Brexiteers, historical illiteracy, general ignorance and a desperate need for a foreign scapegoat are working hand in glove. Just as it was for the rise of Germany's populists in the 1930s, actually.

Again I don't like how a vote went= The Nazis are back.

If trump wins again will it be the return of the Nazis too or if you are outvoted on how the village Christmas tree fundraising event is ran will that be the return of the Nazis also?

You last paragraph is the regurgitation of every remainer article and news presentation that you have swallowed for the past few years.
It's also offensive to the majority who turned out to vote that day.
Horrible

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

Is every vote you don't like the results of going to be followed with "the Nazis were also democratically elected"

Is that the new line?
Will Britain begin to gas the Jews and invade Europe?

Give me a break

Attacks on Mullins rising exponentially, government policy for all non nationals to register (in itself dangerous and very nazi like) to apply to permission to stay. A second windrush already developing, and the whole brexit ideaology born out of anti immigration.
Then government dumping parliamentary democracy by prorogue and media outlets being denied access to ministers an pm in order to control the narrative.


Yeah. Nothing like nazi Germany at all.


You haven’t a clue son

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Attacks on Mullins rising exponentially, government policy for all non nationals to register (in itself dangerous and very nazi like) to apply to permission to stay.

I mean you’d expect that non EU citizens register anyway and I’m pretty sure that all workers in the U.K. need a security number to work, freedom of movement or not. Not only that but most EU countries force you to register with the state when you move home.

A second windrush already developing, and the whole brexit ideaology born out of anti immigration.
Then government dumping parliamentary democracy by prorogue and media outlets being denied access to ministers an pm in order to control the narrative.

If this was all the Nazis did we wouldn’t remember the Nazis. The Nazis said little or nothing about immigration, it wasn’t an issue.

Yeah. Nothing like nazi Germany at all.

Yeh.

You haven’t a clue son

I’d learn more about the Nazis before I say that.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

An more exact political analogy, although none could be very exact, would be the rise of Irish nationalism post 1916. In particular the way the free state and Dev engaged in a suicidal economic war with Britain (and the Empire) the free trade hegemon of its day. That was crazy but nationalists often will sacrifice the economy for purity, we see it with the No Deal fanatics.

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Attacks on Mullins rising exponentially, government policy for all non nationals to register (in itself dangerous and very nazi like) to apply to permission to stay. A second windrush already developing, and the whole brexit ideaology born out of anti immigration.
Then government dumping parliamentary democracy by prorogue and media outlets being denied access to ministers an pm in order to control the narrative.


Yeah. Nothing like nazi Germany at all.


You haven’t a clue son

I went to Australia once. You wouldn't believe it but I had to register my passport number and apply for a visa. I also had to apply for a tax file number to allow me to work.
Crazy stuff altogether. Bunch of down under Nazis

Stop moaning ffs

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I mean you’d expect that non EU citizens register anyway and I’m pretty sure that all workers in the U.K. need a security number to work, freedom of movement or not. Not only that but most EU countries force you to register with the state when you move home.



If this was all the Nazis did we wouldn’t remember the Nazis. The Nazis said little or nothing about immigration, it wasn’t an issue.




Yeh.




I’d learn more about the Nazis before I say that.

It isn’t nazism on the rise here. There’s comparisons and valid ones. It is a hard right government taking hold though.
Few weeks back NHS decreed single women were no longer allowed have IVF because statistically their kids grow up to be troublsome asbo kids.

That’s controlling women’s reproductive right from government down. Who directed the nhs to do that?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It isn’t nazism on the rise here. There’s comparisons and valid ones. It is a hard right government taking hold though.
Few weeks back NHS decreed single women were no longer allowed have IVF because statistically their kids grow up to be troublsome asbo kids.

That’s controlling women’s reproductive right from government down. Who directed the nhs to do that?

Oh I agree. its the misuse of the term Nazi that bugs me.

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It isn’t nazism on the rise here. There’s comparisons and valid ones. It is a hard right government taking hold though.
Few weeks back NHS decreed single women were no longer allowed have IVF because statistically their kids grow up to be troublsome asbo kids.

That’s controlling women’s reproductive right from government down. Who directed the nhs to do that?

Who pays for it?

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

Who pays for it?

If you’re about to go on a tangent about the nhs should be dismantled you really should have a cogent more thought out thought than your usual one liner bit

mattser

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you’re about to go on a tangent about the nhs should be dismantled you really should have a cogent more thought out thought than your usual one liner bit

I'd say you'd be great craic at a party.

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you’re about to go on a tangent about the nhs should be dismantled you really should have a cogent more thought out thought than your usual one liner bit

You accusing me of going off on a tangent. Lol

You pays for the treatment?
If it's private then that's her business. If it's taxpayer money then it's government or NHS decision .

Fairly simple

Stop moaning ffs

mattser wrote: »

I'd say you'd be great craic at a party.

Haha. I’m a bit locked in and having difficulty leaving the house last few months. And cutting everyone off. Haven’t done a session in a while.

But I was good craic up until recently

Thanks tho

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

You accusing me of going off on a tangent. Lol

You pays for the treatment?
If it's private then that's her business. If it's taxpayer money then it's government or NHS decision .

Fairly simple

They have been blocked from it privately too.
Woman on LBC last week with a six figure salary saying who the f are they to tell me I can’t have kids


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-ivf-single-women-south-east-london-treatment-policy-a9071461.html

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

They have been blocked from it privately too.
Woman on LBC last week with a six figure salary saying who the f are they to tell me I can’t have kids

In that case i agree with those women. Definitely

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

In that case i agree with those women. Definitely

It’s obviously wrong.

But who directed the nhs to make that decision? It’s far right government ahoy

Calina

interactive wrote: »

Its going to happen , we all know its going to happen , its inevitable now that dissent is growing EU wide to the path that the EU leaders have sent us down.
My guess would be that Italys new government will be a total disaster and collapse within 6 months, Salvini will come roaring back with a huge majority and pull the plug on EU membership, and then the fat lady sings.

Do you speak Italian? What other foreign languages do you read?

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s obviously wrong.

But who directed the nhs to make that decision? It’s far right government ahoy

It is only in one region of the NHS. South East. The board for each region make the decision on who is or isn't eligible. There is only a certain amount of funding for IVF. This board in this region decided to exclude single women.
One Google search to get the full story

Far right government? Bit of a stretch

FrancieBrady

Blueshoe wrote: »

Far right government? Bit of a stretch

Do you blame your current UK government at all for the state of Brexit and UK politics?

Blueshoe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you blame your current UK government at all for the state of Brexit and UK politics?

The current and the past. It was and still is an impossible task. The EU are rightfully digging their heels in too. The don't want to make it easy lest another member might decide to leave.

You are looking at this from the view of an Irish person. You are against Brexit. You automatically will find flaw in everything that is done to achieve it. It's just human nature.

Similar to orange man bad politics in the Us.

Timberrrrrrrr

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It isn’t nazism on the rise here. There’s comparisons and valid ones. It is a hard right government taking hold though.
Few weeks back NHS decreed single women were no longer allowed have IVF because statistically their kids grow up to be troublsome asbo kids.

That’s controlling women’s reproductive right from government down. Who directed the nhs to do that?

You say this as if its the whole nhs across thenUK when in fact its only in parts of London.

NHS South East London includes the clinical commissioning groups Bexley, Bromley, Greenwich, Lambeth, Lewisham and Southwark.

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

It is only in one region of the NHS. South East. The board for each region make the decision on who is or isn't eligible. There is only a certain amount of funding for IVF. This board in this region decided to exclude single women.
One Google search to get the full story

Far right government? Bit of a stretch

Is it not undemocratic to deny some women their rights in one region and all them have them in others?
In the same country?

Oh wait. Northern Ireland’s women and lgbt are still locked in the dark ages by the dup in the same ‘country’

Yey ‘democracy’

FrancieBrady

Blueshoe wrote: »

The current and the past. It was and still is an impossible task. The EU are rightfully digging their heels in too. The don't want to make it easy lest another member might decide to leave.

You are looking at this from the view of an Irish person. You are against Brexit. You automatically will find flaw in everything that is done to achieve it. It's just human nature.

Similar to orange man bad politics in the Us.

So the only thing you are focussed on is the delivery of Brexit? Nothing else matters.

The wider picture is available to us looking on from Ireland. That much is clear anyhow.

Blueshoe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the only thing you are focussed on is the delivery of Brexit? Nothing else matters.

The wider picture is available to us looking on from Ireland. That much is clear anyhow.

I wouldn't say it's that simple
Where do you get your news from? Just wondering

FrancieBrady

Blueshoe wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's that simple
Where do you get your news from? Just wondering

Everywhere. British media, Irish media and a smattering of the European press.

Blueshoe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everywhere. British media, Irish media and a smattering of the European press.

Fair enough. Are there any news outlets who are pro Brexit or are they all against it.
Or do some seem neutral.

FrancieBrady

Blueshoe wrote: »

Fair enough. Are there any news outlets who are pro Brexit or are they all against it.
Or do some seem neutral.

Very few are neutral.

I tend to follow the likes of Tony Connelly, who is fastidiously factual and neutral in his reporting of events and in his analysis. Routinely examining both sides.

Blueshoe

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Very few are neutral.

I tend to follow the likes of Tony Connelly, who is fastidiously factual and neutral in his reporting of events and in his analysis. Routinely examining both sides.

Sounds good. Il check him out. Media neutrality doesn't exist anymore unfortunately or is rare.

Someone might be consuming left sided news and someone else right sided. How can they ever find middle ground if they only hear one side.

The media are at fault for much of the division too.

Take fox news for example. They are off the charts biased right. Some people only watch fox and take that view as gospel. A friend of mine only watches RT. Swears by it. Talk about bias.

Rte are also not to be trusted. Most of us know this.

I think most people are fairly center. Little to the left on somethings and little to the right on the other. It's the media which can swing the narrative