Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

You need to watch that one because the day rate is a lot higher. I think you need to be using well over 50% on the night rate for it to pay off

It didn't work for us because we're both at home so using a lot of day rate electricity

unkel

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

I switched (mid contract) to their new EV package a few weeks ago. Night rate is down to an incredible 4.79c / kWh incl. VAT. Day rate has gone up by a bit over 2c to high 16c (from memory)

You break even (compared to Energia's current plan, which is the best in the market for most users) if you use a bit more than 50% on the night rate hours. I switched mainly as a stick and carrot approach for myself to try move more use to the night rate where it is far friendlier to the environment and mostly already on renewables. And of course if I succeed, I save a bit of money too

MJohnston

Presumably this is still not available to those of us with Smart meters? The rollout of those has been utterly useless.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

I switched (mid contract) to their new EV package a few weeks ago.

From another provider with a penalty? Or from another Energia tariff without charge?

I'm considering it too. Just came back to Energia a few months ago. Pre-solar I was using about 60% night rate. Not sure of the breakdown now. I'm obviously using less during the day due to solar covering the load, but I also don't have near as much overnight use because in good months I'm doing washing, drying, dishes etc in daytime rather than overnight.

I'll go dig up my last bill and see what the % was.

DrPhilG

For comparison then:

First post solar bill last year:
150 day units
414 night
73% night use

Latest bill (including a month of charging battery overnight):
316 day
831 night
72% night use

So yeah, assuming that the standing charge remains the same I'd be better off on the EV rate.

Very rough estimate, would have saved €10 on that first bill, and about €6 on the latest one.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

From another provider with a penalty? Or from another Energia tariff without charge?

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one, this will also speed up the pay back time of your battery as using it during the day is now more beneficial and loading it up at night is now cheaper than before

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one, this will also speed up the pay back time of your battery as using it during the day is now more beneficial and loading it up at night is now cheaper than before

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate, or is that rate open ended??

Would make Solar & a battery really attractive.....

Day rate usage: 0kWh
Night rate usage: hundreds and hundreds of kWh

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

Excellent, thanks for confirming.

unkel wrote: »

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one

Lol, that would be me!

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate, or is that rate open ended??

I was looking at that too, very hard to find the details of max usage (as their current plan has a max usage policy)??

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

And yes, the target for all of us should be to get as high a percentage on the night rate as we can within reason. Best for the pocket and best for the planet. Best for grid stabilisation in a world of increasing electricity consumption and decreasing fossil fuel burning.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol, that would be me!

That was aimed at you

But also at anyone else considering it. I too have a smallish powerwall with about 4.5kWh capacity, but I ordered cells making up 10kWh usuable about a month ago. Hopefully in future our cars can be used as massive home attached storage too, stabilising the grid, charging up at night for nearly free and giving us an income during the day when we can sell electricity at peak times

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

I was looking at that too, very hard to find the details of max usage (as their current plan has a max usage policy)??

unkel wrote: »

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

Hey Unkel, would you mind digging out the montly cap on this.
My current Energia Plan has the following to say...
Above 3,000kWh day usage and 2,000kWh night usage every two months

So that's 1,000kWh at night a month which I edge up to even with COVID lockdown...

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

If it's the same as the typical allowance it's 2000kWh at the night rate per billing cycle


I'd say heat pump plus 2 EVs could get fairly close to this value, especially if you're storing nighttime energy in batteries for daytime use


However, the excess night rate of 13.02c/kWh is still lower than the day rate, so still makes sense to use as much at night rate as possible

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Unkel, would you mind digging out the montly cap on this.
My current Energia Plan has the following to say...
Above 3,000kWh day usage and 2,000kWh night usage every two months

So that's 1,000kWh at night a month which I edge up to even with COVID lockdown...

Yeah I think I saw those figures somewhere / they were mentioned to me on the phone. Best double check, don't take my word / vague recollection for it

You said your second EV is charged purely on PV now, so you are still using nearly 12MWh per year on night rate alone for one EV and your house? That is a huge consumption presuming you don't do big miles on your main EV, I guess you have a very big house and electric room heating and electric water heating only?

slave1

One 2.3kW storage heater used 5/6months of the year, electric water heating, electric shower X 2/3 every day (pumped shower also on same time) and everything on at night like dishwasher/dryer/washing machine.
Thirsty home cinema on every night for 2/3hrs.
Oh, and two EVs.
The Leaf currently down to 46% from school drops offs etc so may need to hook her up soon.

As I'm newbie PV I'm moving stuff from night to day but this week just dryer and diverted water heating only, muggy week.

After COVID and with regular EV charging then likely to exceed their current night limits, time will tell

KCross

The Energia limit is 2000kWh at night per 2 month billing period. The cost goes up marginally for each unit above the 2000 after that so even if you exceed the 2000 its not that big a deal.

I go over 2000 about once a year... its not that hard to do with a heat pump and an EV.

slave1

Just looked back on my meter readings I was taking around PV install, will all devices on and charging the Tesla I was just over 80units at night rate one night, drops back to 55 when charging the Leaf

Orebro

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

liamog

Orebro wrote: »

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

I'd love to see Hyundai release a Kona with the same spec as the entry petrol car so we can get an honest view on the price difference

13.6% of european market now.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/electrified-vehicles-are-doubling-their-european-market-share-in-2021/

Orebro

Orebro wrote: »

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

price drop on Mokka-e to retain the grant.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/23/vauxhall-changes-its-ev-pricing-to-keep-vehicles-eligible-for-uk-plug-in-car-grant-picg/

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

13.6% of european market now.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/electrified-vehicles-are-doubling-their-european-market-share-in-2021/

That's anything with a plug though, not just BEVs. Nothing wrong with BEVs, an electric kilometre driven in a PHEV counts just as much as in a BEV.

Banana Republic 1

Kramer wrote: »

That's anything with a plug though, not just BEVs. Nothing wrong with BEVs, an electric kilometre driven in a PHEV counts just as much as in a BEV.

The PHEV thing will be the next diesel gate, the emissions from there ICE segments is way over what’s claimed.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

price drop on Mokka-e to retain the grant.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/23/vauxhall-changes-its-ev-pricing-to-keep-vehicles-eligible-for-uk-plug-in-car-grant-picg/

In other news, car manufacturers admit they've been inflating prices on their EVs :rolleyes:

the_amazing_raisin

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The PHEV thing will be the next diesel gate, the emissions from there ICE segments is way over what’s claimed.

Simple solution to that, make petrol €5/litre, everyone with a PHEV will charge it as much as possible to avoid those annoying cash stealing petrol pumps

the_amazing_raisin

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

You know it'd be nice if Energia (or someone else) would team up with DC charging providers and start providing discounts on fast charging to customers. I think Octopus energy in the UK are doing this and several of the energy companies in Norway have been doing that for a while


They could even have a paid subscription option, if I was an Energia customer doing regular long trips then I'd consider paying more in a subscription if it got a discount at Ionity

Silent Running

I noticed on the Energia site that there is a price increase from April 5th. Expect a hefty 8.6% increase on the bill.

I'm with Energia at the moment, so if I change to the EV plan I won't get a welcome bonus if I do my annual provider change. Currently this is €200 with SSE. The standing charge is lower with SSE too, and the night rate is 8.07c including VAT. This is only marginally higher than the 7.58c with the Energia EV plan from April 5th.

So, with a €200 welcome, a lower standing charge and a cheaper day rate after 5th April, I think I'll just go with SSE this year.

Am I missing something obvious? Comments welcome.

the_amazing_raisin

Silent Running wrote: »

I noticed on the Energia site that there is a price increase from April 5th. Expect a hefty 8.6% increase on the bill.

I'm with Energia at the moment, so if I change to the EV plan I won't get a welcome bonus if I do my annual provider change. Currently this is €200 with SSE. The standing charge is lower with SSE too, and the night rate is 8.07c including VAT. This is only marginally higher than the 7.58c with the Energia EV plan from April 5th.

So, with a €200 welcome, a lower standing charge and a cheaper day rate after 5th April, I think I'll just go with SSE this year.

Am I missing something obvious? Comments welcome.

What I've noticed is that Energia is good for high consumers because the low rates outweigh the higher standing charge. For example our usage last year was close to 10MWh and will likely rise to 12MWh when we have 2 EVs


However, their recent price increase has largely closed the gap with other suppliers, last I checked Bord Gais and Glow Power were around the same price for my levels of usage


If you're trying to estimate the usage of an EV, you can work it out if you know your annual mileage and the car's consumption


Example:
Mileage = 12,000km
Average consumption = 16kWh/100km = 160Wh/km


Annual usage = (Mileage(km)*Consumtipn(Wh/km))/1000
(12000*160)/1000 = 1920kWh


For billing purposes you can just add about 2000 kWh to your previous night rate usage to estimate

DrPhilG

Sounds like you're right, as an end of contract change you're better with SSE.

I'm only a few months in with Energia so I'm happy to switch mid contract. Even if it means extending the term to 12 months from now.

Silent Running

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

What I've noticed is that Energia is good for high consumers because the low rates outweigh the higher standing charge. For example our usage last year was close to 10MWh and will likely rise to 12MWh when we have 2 EVs


However, their recent price increase has largely closed the gap with other suppliers, last I checked Bord Gais and Glow Power were around the same price for my levels of usage


If you're trying to estimate the usage of an EV, you can work it out if you know your annual mileage and the car's consumption


Example:
Mileage = 12,000km
Average consumption = 16kWh/100km = 160Wh/km


Annual usage = (Mileage(km)*Consumtipn(Wh/km))/1000
(12000*160)/1000 = 1920kWh


For billing purposes you can just add about 2000 kWh to your previous night rate usage to estimate

For me the EV usage is a normal factor in estimating annual electricity cost, and has been for years. I'm just comparing suppliers with a view to migrating to a new supplier, as I've done every year.

There is no incentive to be loyal to any supplier, in fact the opposite is true.