Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 3:31pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

So what are the views on what happens next, with the grant changes etc. Will the overall price of EVs increase? If so, will the second hand values bump up a little too?

Or will the manufacturers all just drop their prices to match the grant reduction?

I'm still ticking over a possible e-Niro switch but I'm wondering about 2 things:

1 - will the second hand price of the Niro increase if I wait.

2 - will my i3 value increase at all if I hold off on selling it.

What happened in the UK was that after the government lowered the cap on the grant, all the manufacturers suddenly came out with a lower spec which was still within the grant amount

I imagine a similar scenario will happen here, although you'll be getting into the true Paddy spec region (left mirror is included, right one is an extra :rolleyes:)

I don't see the price floor on new EVs dropping just yet either, they're all sticking to the roughly €27-29k region. Until someone blinks I don't see new EVs going below this level, unless you're getting a deal

Hard to know what'll happen on 2nd hand EVs, for a price jump to happen you kind of need everyone to do it and crowd psychology might prevent that

I think the E-Niro holds value extremely well so it'll probably stay where it is, the i3 might drop unfortunately because depreciation is still the main factor of value

innrain · 28-04-2021 4:22pm

I think in UK the 35k limit is right there at the affordability point. Some would argue but a Passat starts at 35k which is a common enough car. In our case 60k is a quite high ceiling that just few cars are above it: from Tesla all except 3SR+, VW id4 Max, maybe the newcomers IQ5 EV 6at high spec what else?
The rest would be unaffected so no reason to reduce the prices.
VW with Max @ 62k has a potential to drop 2k but a heat pump would then cost you 6.5k so I really doubt it is going to happen.
A 3LR non-white @66K hard to believe a 10% drop.

mfceiling · 28-04-2021 4:34pm

What is it with taxi drivers and parking at EV chargers.

I'm at my local circle k charging. When I pulled in there was a taxi (diesel) in one of the spots and he was reading the paper. He pulled out after 15 minutes and immediately another lad in a Berlingo has pulled in and is on his phone.

There is loads of room to park elsewhere but no, take the EV spot.

Thankfully nobody else has pulled in to charge but tough luck if they were.

TitianGerm · 28-04-2021 5:00pm

mfceiling wrote: »

What is it with taxi drivers and parking at EV chargers.

I'm at my local circle k charging. When I pulled in there was a taxi (diesel) in one of the spots and he was reading the paper. He pulled out after 15 minutes and immediately another lad in a Berlingo has pulled in and is on his phone.

There is loads of room to park elsewhere but no, take the EV spot.

Thankfully nobody else has pulled in to charge but tough luck if they were.

It'd be funny to pull up behind him, block him in and stretch your cable and start charging.

Sorry boss I'll be here for 45 minutes before I'm ready to leave :pac:

DrPhilG · 29-04-2021 10:52am

Thoughts on this? Figured a new thread would make sense rather than dumping here.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058182006/1/#post117029058

JohnC. · 29-04-2021 1:53pm

I suppose it’s not always a charge point placement that at fault…

the_amazing_raisin · 29-04-2021 3:01pm

JohnC. wrote: »

I suppose it’s not always a charge point placement that at fault…

There's no such thing as bad parking at chargers

It'd be nice if car companies could read some consensus on where to put the charging port

MJohnston · 29-04-2021 3:47pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There's no such thing as bad parking at chargers

It'd be nice if car companies could read some consensus on where to put the charging port

That isn't really the problem in this case though

charlieIRL · 29-04-2021 3:50pm

obi604 wrote: »

Panning a trip tomorrow out around Moycullen, Ma’am cross and Oughterard.

From ESB map, it’s seems there are no chargers in this general direction.

Any one know offhand of any not listed on Ecars map?

The charger at the Station House in Clifden was broken for months but was replaced with a new one recently. You could always top up a the FCP in Newcastle before you head out.

AndyBoBandy · 29-04-2021 4:16pm

Speaking of commercial use…

Well done this guy….

https://twitter.com/saicmaxus_ire/status/1387740529031536642?s=21

Black_Knight · 29-04-2021 4:58pm

obi604 wrote: »

Panning a trip tomorrow out around Moycullen, Ma’am cross and Oughterard.

From ESB map, it’s seems there are no chargers in this general direction.

Any one know offhand of any not listed on Ecars map?

charlieIRL wrote: »

The charger at the Station House in Clifden was broken for months but was replaced with a new one recently. You could always top up a the FCP in Newcastle before you head out.

Better late than never. :pac:

ELM327 · 29-04-2021 7:17pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Speaking of commercial use…

Well done this guy….

https://twitter.com/saicmaxus_ire/status/1387740529031536642?s=21

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.

"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/

I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

RandomViewer · 30-04-2021 12:20am

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.

"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/

I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

It's wild money for a Chinese vehicle

30-04-2021 11:14am

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's wild money for a Chinese vehicle

Early adopters, get to pay for the development costs by the sounds of it.
As soon as others appear on the market, the price will dive.

MJohnston · 30-04-2021 11:21am

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

graememk · 30-04-2021 11:34am

MJohnston wrote: »

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

I dont have time to work it out, maybe someone else does, you could work it out the other way round too

how many kms, would it take to even break even. Also need to take into account that the van driver/company would be VAT registered too, so take 23% off the price of the diesel, also most likely will have a fuel card with a bit of discount on that too.

On 27,000km on an ev compared to a 45mpg car, I am saving roughly 1800 a year on fuel.

- Long way to go to get 35K!

the_amazing_raisin · 30-04-2021 11:39am

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.

"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/

I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

I assume he's leasing it or got a deal for some free advertising for Maxus. Can't see it making much financial sense otherwise

kirving · 30-04-2021 11:47am

Rented a short wheelbase Diesel Transit recently.

Probably only ever used to move furniture as opposed to anything heavier, but also probably only around Dublin traffic. It had averaged 8.0L/100km over the previous 2,000km , which I thought was excellent.

You'd want to be doing serious milage to justify a 68k van!

MJohnston · 30-04-2021 11:54am

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I assume he's leasing it or got a deal for some free advertising for Maxus. Can't see it making much financial sense otherwise

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

ELM327 · 30-04-2021 12:00pm

MJohnston wrote: »

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

To save 40k per 3 year ownership cycle, which is just break even , you'd need to be spending 12k on fuel per year. that's 9000 litres. At 9l/100km, that's 100,000km per year. Just to break even.

kirving wrote: »

Rented a short wheelbase Diesel Transit recently.

Probably only ever used to move furniture as opposed to anything heavier, but also probably only around Dublin traffic. It had averaged 8.0L/100km over the previous 2,000km , which I thought was excellent.

You'd want to be doing serious milage to justify a 68k van!

I'd never make the money back, see the calcs above.
Even on a one van running for 24 hours (where you'd never get to charge it up anyway) it would struggle to do 100k per year.

I do a side business online, currently use a peugeot partner but the size is stopping me from doing more, and I want a bigger van. Current miles in the van is less than 10k per year. I carry mostly furniture and electronics. I'm looking at a H3L3 van size. I'd love to go electric but there are no options! When I can have a diesel van from China for 20k or a Renault for 24k, why would I pay 60+??

ELM327 · 30-04-2021 12:01pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

He wont have to worry about that when he's out of business for flushing 40k down the toilet

RandomViewer · 30-04-2021 12:04pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

It's a Chinese Maxus, a 1995 tow truck will be billowing pure black smoke towing it home every few weeks so perhaps the opposite, he loves the smell of Derv in the morning

MJohnston · 30-04-2021 12:57pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's a Chinese Maxus, a 1995 tow truck will be billowing pure black smoke towing it home every few weeks so perhaps the opposite, he loves the smell of Derv in the morning

Aye, he obviously bought it for the breakdowns :rolleyes:

RandomViewer · 30-04-2021 1:03pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Aye, he obviously bought it for the breakdowns :rolleyes:

You do know of poorly thought of Maxus are? Their previous incarnation was based on the piss poor LDV version , but then what do you expect from something tacked together by lads paid pennies,

MJohnston · 30-04-2021 2:17pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

You do know of poorly thought of Maxus are? Their previous incarnation was based on the piss poor LDV version , but then what do you expect from something tacked together by lads paid pennies,

You mean like:
- Most smartphones
- Most TVs
- A lot of EVs
- Most clothes
- etc etc etc

I've said elsewhere I think there are plenty of humanitarian reasons to avoid Chinese made products. But if you're talking about quality, I'm afraid it's just not a good argument to say that they're automatically ****ty because they're Chinese made.

RandomViewer · 30-04-2021 10:25pm

MJohnston wrote: »

You mean like:
- Most smartphones
- Most TVs
- A lot of EVs
- Most clothes
- etc etc etc

I've said elsewhere I think there are plenty of humanitarian reasons to avoid Chinese made products. But if you're talking about quality, I'm afraid it's just not a good argument to say that they're automatically ****ty because they're Chinese made.

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

01-05-2021 12:30am

RandomViewer wrote: »

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

British Leyland, the forced marriage between two rival companies that never got on and seemed to always defeat the "opposing" team with much of their developments in the 1970s. The quality was mostly down to a totally disinterested and pissed off workforce.

Is the design really 40 years old?

the_amazing_raisin · 01-05-2021 8:45am

RandomViewer wrote: »

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

So what you're saying is that the Chinese version is a considerable improvement?

RandomViewer · 01-05-2021 4:29pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the Chinese version is a considerable improvement?

China copy, they do not create, give them the plans of a sh1t Austin Allegro and they'll produce an equally sh1tty Allegro, wonder has anyone found coke cans in the Maxus panels?
Toyota lost a lot of customers when they started to build cars outside of Japan, the "I'm here to collect a paycheck" mentality in the assembly plants saw quality drop ,

RandomViewer · 01-05-2021 4:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

British Leyland, the forced marriage between two rival companies that never got on and seemed to always defeat the "opposing" team with much of their developments in the 1970s. The quality was mostly down to a totally disinterested and pissed off workforce.

Is the design really 40 years old?

Worse ,it was originally an FSO (Poland) design , its got GM bits, Daewoo bits and possibly some Leyland Sherpa leftovers

Random EV thoughts.....

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