Random EV thoughts.....

DrPhilG

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

fits

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

I don’t think they will still be selling e-Niro in 3 years time. But it’s holding its value pretty well so far. With the ID3 who knows? As long as VW don’t feck up with the software it should hold pretty well.

Black_Knight

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

11, 26, 22. Based on very little.

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

Applying a very basic 40% depreciation assumption, the i3 could lose probably half of that of the new cars, so you could see €8k depreciation on the i3 versus €15k plus on any newer car. An ID.3 could lose more, possibly 50% in three years, it's somewhere in the 40/50% range IMO.

DrPhilG

Thanks Kramer

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

the_amazing_raisin

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks Kramer

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

I'm guessing it would since it's newer and starts from a higher number

The bigger the price, the bigger the the drop

RandomViewer

Wont get Finance on the BMW in 3 years so bigger drop?

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

It's the same with all new cars - the brunt of the depreciation is in year one. Possibly 20/25% in year one, 12/15% year two, levelling off somewhat on year three at 10%. Higher value cars tend to depreciate more & more quickly than mainstream cars too.

There have been some exceptions in EVs recently & some bought well (not naming names, but "the man from......." is one that springs to mind :pac:).

That new reg plate always comes at a cost.
Just a few years ago, cars like the Ioniq & early Leafs paid for themselves for high mileage drivers, in reduced fuel costs (free charging was popular with some Leaf drivers :pac:), but it's getting harder to justify a brand new EV on costs/savings alone these days.

That said, I'm looking at changing again after just a year - I'll never learn .

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

That said, I'm looking at changing again after just a year - I'll never learn .

You no likey the Model 3 anymore?

What are you looking at as a replacement?

Mind you, you should see a decent sale value, and nowhere near the 20-25% depreciation expected in ‘other cars’

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

You no likey the Model 3 anymore?

What are you looking at as a replacement?

Mind you, you should see a decent sale value, and nowhere near the 20-25% depreciation expected in ‘other cars’

I'm ambivalent about the Tesla. I'll invariably take the 530e over the Tesla, but in fairness, it's probably in the next class up from the Model 3. Thinking about it, I'm probably quite often unfair to the Model 3 as a result. The bimmer is far superior in terms of NVH, seat bolstering, refinement etc., but a €20k more expensive German executive car always should be.

I'd be most interested in the new EV6 - the quick one, but the LR Model 3 would tick more boxes going forward, especially before the €5k SEAI grant goes in July (for the LR). Mileage on the SR+ has been next to nothing since last July, whereas the Ioniq the year before covered 50k kms (lockdown).

Usual usage pattern may resume & the LR might be a good choice again, especially if Elon throws a few more superchargers here & there .

It's not a huge priority for now, but we'll see.

Black_Knight

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?

DrPhilG

Black_Knight wrote: »

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?

Yup. That's my other consideration. The only reason I'm considering selling the i3 (other than a desire to go back to full EV) is that it's out of warranty and any issues will be expensive, like the current window motor that's crapped out.

So if I get an ID3 I'll be in the same boat in 3 years whereas I'd happily keep an e-Niro for 5 years. The Kia 7 year warranty is mileage limited to 160k km so it would only really be a 6.5 year warranty for me and I'd aim to sell it with a year's warranty remaining.

DrPhilG

Rough calculations would have the overall costs of keeping the i3 (depreciation, electricity, petrol, tax) at between €4k and €4.5k depending on whether I have any out of warranty issues to fix (beyond the current one).

An ID3 would be about €5.5k - high initial cost so proportionally higher depreciation. Plus I'd definitely be changing again in 3 years due to the short warranty.

An e-Niro probably about €5k. Lower price so depreciation a little lower. Plus with a 7 year warranty (more like 6.5 with my mileage) I could comfortably keep it for 5+ years.

So I'm back at the e-Niro as a potential winner. And if I can find a respectably priced 1 year old it may even end up with a lower annual cost than keeping the i3.

fits

You are going through all the same thought processes as I have been! I think we will be ok with changing in three years until the technology advances settle down a bit.

I’m not sure if the Id 3 will depreciate faster than the eniro. I’d say it will be the other way around. But al l Evs have been pretty strong in recent years. And demand for them is only going to increase.

I did my calculations based on 15 k depreciation over three years for both the eniro and the id3.

handpref

Black_Knight wrote: »

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?

The worrying thing with the vw warranty is the limitations, it’s capped after 2 years to 90,000km’s, I was considering one but not with that lack of back up. I’m doing 40,000+ a year so it wouldn’t make sense, I’d be out of warranty after 2 years.

Tesla may go one better with a 80,000km cap.

Even the little Zoe at home here gets 5 years and 200,000km warranty, and some people are quick to put Renault down.

Kia is 7 years or 150,000km’s which if your not doing big milage is super piece of mind for both a new or second hand purchase.

I think when DrPhil was thinking of changing a while ago the warranty periods came up, buying a 40k car that the manufacturer won’t stand over after 2 years doesn’t really cut it.

Don’t take the above as gospel, just what I gleaned before we settled on the zoe. BMW tried to lay it on thick once the i3 was out of warranty and that wasn’t going to happen with the second car.

Kramer

handpref wrote: »

buying a 40k car that the manufacturer won’t stand over after 2 years doesn’t really cut it.

It's strange alright that as the price goes up, the warranty duration goes down.
It should arguably be the inverse, especially with the longetivity, simplicity & durability of BEVs, certainly regarding the drivetrain.

I think manufacturers are going to have to introduce a different model - maybe front loading BEVs with the lifetime income they derived from servicing/maintaining/repairing ICE'd cars.

A UK BMW manager told me relatively recently that there was no real profit in the cars, especially the nearly new, pre owned. He said the finance made them money & the cars were just a tool to allow them to sell finance.

He had no reason to lie.

Maybe extended warranties &/or insurance, PCP etc. are their way forward.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

A UK BMW manager told me relatively recently that there was no real profit in the cars, especially the nearly new, pre owned. He said the finance made them money & the cars were just a tool to allow them to sell finance.

I saw that as part of the BEV push, VW are looking to increase the margin on a car from 2% to 8%. The consensus seems to be now is an opportunity to capture some of the TCO savings by increasing the margin on the car itself.

cannco253

I used MotorCheck recently on an EV purchase and received an email from them today

"SAVE EVERY TIME YOU FILL UP AT CircleK
Hi XX,

AAA here from MotorCheck.ie

Just a quick note to let you know that as a MotorCheck user you are entitled to TWO CENT OFF EVERY LITRE of petrol or diesel purchased at any Circle K station nationwide. To claim your discount all you need is a MotorCheck fuel card which is free to apply for here."

I mailed them back asking about any discounts on EV charging.

"Unfortunately CircleK are not providing a discount on charging stations on the Fuelcard at the moment but I'll mention this to the team who deal with CircleK to raise at our next review."

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

zg3409

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

Every phev at an Irish rail station car park...

I know parking tickets are issued for cars not actively charging in Bray, so if the ESB charger says idle you will get a parking ticket. I presume this owner would use a stick on label to fix this..

There was talk in the last if changing settings in the EV to charge slower, to get free parking for longer..

the_amazing_raisin

That's the problem with giving away free parking at chargers, especially when there's a lot of high demand parking around you

It's a nice thought, but it just keeps getting abused

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

Would the "2.0 tdi" badge on the back not give it away!!

MJohnston

mfceiling wrote: »

Would the "2.0 tdi" badge on the back not give it away!!

To who, though?

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

To who, though?

I would imagine that most parking enforcement staff really wouldn't know it's a fake socket, or care.

MJohnston

Deleted User wrote: »

I would imagine that most parking enforcement staff really wouldn't know it's a fake socket, or care.

What I'm getting at is — Ireland doesn't do parking enforcement. There won't be anyone to give anything away to!

cannco253

https://www.wattsup.app/

Had a look at this last night. Nice feature in that it shows an icon of the Charging provider at each charger location, so you can see in advance if it's ESB/EasyGo/Ionity...

the_amazing_raisin

Had a funny chat with the missus recently

After several years of her refusing to drive the Leaf, she's finally learned to drive it and gotten rid of her ICE banger.
She doesn't want to keep the Leaf however, she's not the biggest fan of the looks of the car and she wants something with more range (understandable since the Leaf24 isn't for everyone)

So the plan was for her to save for a while and buy a newer car, probably another ICE.

However, after a few weeks of driving the Leaf she's realised she hates cars with gears and has to buy an EV if she wants the smooth driving. I'm now referred to as "b@stard" for bringing her into the dark ways of EV drivers.

Mission accomplished

Just another great example of how once someone drives an EV for a while they often don't want to go back to ICE for regular driving

MJohnston

ICE driving is just ****ing tedious once you've gone to an EV.

One thing I keep thinking about is how much easier learning to drive will be for my son — I reckon learning the gears at the same time as everything else was about 80% of the hard part of learning to drive. Without gears, you can just focus on getting the actual driving right.

Much safer and easier for everyone.

innrain

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Just another great example of how once someone drives an EV for a while they often don't want to go back to ICE for regular driving

Yeah this is how I changed many people's minds. Generally people think diving an EV is like driving a milk float. To bad gocar has only few EVs now. They have no Zoes it seems and only 3 Konas and 3 Leafs. They are 12 quid an hour and I encourage anybody to give it a try.

A friend in DE gave me all the arguments: driving thousands of km a day, battery expiring and the rest. My argument was just drive one and then I'll reply to the rest. Trying to convince someone who does not listen is pointless. Once they experience the EV drive then they'll listen. Of course is not for everyone I accept that but the majority of people who did a drive test in my EV were awed.

fits

MJohnston wrote: »

ICE driving is just ****ing tedious once you've gone to an EV.

One thing I keep thinking about is how much easier learning to drive will be for my son — I reckon learning the gears at the same time as everything else was about 80% of the hard part of learning to drive. Without gears, you can just focus on getting the actual driving right.

Much safer and easier for everyone.

I’ve driven automatic ice cars for years now and they are fine . It’s the manual transmission that’s the truly tedious bit.