Random EV thoughts.....

MJohnston

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think that the major issue with EVs that has not been addressed yet is the cost to the state, (you and me), of the changeover from ICE vehicles.
Current policy is to replace about 1 million ICE vehicles with EVs by 2030.
At present each new EV costs the state about €10k in grants and waived VRT. So, to replace 1 million vehicles will have an up-front cost of €10 billion. Added to that is the revenue which will be lost on an ongoing basis from loss of excise duties on fuel sales.
Im sure that the gurus in the Dept of Finance must be hatching some new ways to raise revenue from the motoring sector but I’ve yet to hear anything about it.

The reality is that state subsidies aren’t for consumers’ benefit, they’re for manufacturers.

I don’t even mean that this is how they’ve accidentally panned out, I’m fairly sure that there was just an unspoken agreement that the only way to get car manufacturers to more rapidly create electric fleets would be to essentially bribe them.

Otherwise, a rebate subsidy is just about the absolute worst way to achieve lower prices for consumers.

KCross

Roger_007 wrote: »

Current policy is to replace about 1 million ICE vehicles with EVs by 2030.
At present each new EV costs the state about €10k in grants and waived VRT. So, to replace 1 million vehicles will have an up-front cost of €10 billion.

Those incentives will be long gone before 2030 or 1m EV's being on our roads so all that revenue wont be lost at all.

Roger_007 wrote: »

Added to that is the revenue which will be lost on an ongoing basis from loss of excise duties on fuel sales.
Im sure that the gurus in the Dept of Finance must be hatching some new ways to raise revenue from the motoring sector...

You can be sure of that. Road pricing, increases in general taxation, motor tax etc will all go up.

Roger_007

KCross wrote: »

Those incentives will be long gone before 2030 or 1m EV's being on our roads so all that revenue wont be lost at all.



You can be sure of that. Road pricing, increases in general taxation, motor tax etc will all go up.

I don’t think that the price of an EV is going to drop by anything like the amount of the subsidisation even when volumes ramp up. So this means that the effective price to the consumer will steadily increase. Even with substantial subsidies the prices of EVs are already vey high compared to the equivalent ICEV. Hopefully the low running costs will compensate for the initial high price.

mfceiling

So I pulled into Birdhill 10 minutes ago for my first ever time to use a supercharger.

One model 3 on the first of the banks and one on the third. I am aware of not taking a charger on the same bank so I went to 4 and it's not working. Grand I'll go to 2..... except for a fat young one sitting in it in a Micra on her phone. I really couldn't have been more unpleasant..."you'll have to move so I can charge"...."yeah gimme a minute"..."no now please"....big huffy head on her as she drove off.

Currently in the third bank is a red Audi A4 beside the other model 3. There are loads and loads of free spaces so I don't understand why they'd park in a place exclusively for EV's.

Irishjg

mfceiling wrote: »

So I pulled into Birdhill 10 minutes ago for my first ever time to use a supercharger.

One model 3 on the first of the banks and one on the third. I am aware of not taking a charger on the same bank so I went to 4 and it's not working. Grand I'll go to 2..... except for a fat young one sitting in it in a Micra on her phone. I really couldn't have been more unpleasant..."you'll have to move so I can charge"...."yeah gimme a minute"..."no now please"....big huffy head on her as she drove off.

Currently in the third bank is a red Audi A4 beside the other model 3. There are loads and loads of free spaces so I don't understand why they'd park in a place exclusively for EV's.

It’s hard to fathom but yeah it happens. I can think of two reasons. A, they are ignorant and don’t know any different or B, they are an ignorant pr1ck and do know the difference. The fat young one was probably an A. The Audi driver was probably a B.

the_amazing_raisin

mfceiling wrote: »

So I pulled into Birdhill 10 minutes ago for my first ever time to use a supercharger.

One model 3 on the first of the banks and one on the third. I am aware of not taking a charger on the same bank so I went to 4 and it's not working. Grand I'll go to 2..... except for a fat young one sitting in it in a Micra on her phone. I really couldn't have been more unpleasant..."you'll have to move so I can charge"...."yeah gimme a minute"..."no now please"....big huffy head on her as she drove off.

Currently in the third bank is a red Audi A4 beside the other model 3. There are loads and loads of free spaces so I don't understand why they'd park in a place exclusively for EV's.

I haven't been to Birdhill but the other superchargers I've seen were in areas with lots of parking around and away from shops

You'd have to be some clown or deliberately being an arsehole to park there

Irishjg

Irishjg wrote: »

I honestly believe the issues with diesel have not been properly addressed in this country. Sure it’s changing but at a very slow pace. Most people I know have diesel engined cars because they were led/enticed down that path by government policy and the motor industry. Even though I’m asked a lot of questions about my EV, I’m not convinced any of my mates intend or will change. Reasons they give are a mix of financial outlay, mistrust in EVs, lack of infrastructure, procrastination for cars with better range and lots of other issues too. Sadly I can’t see diesel going anywhere for a long time.

Nobody I know would buy one. They are too expensive, wildly costly to fix out of warranty, nobody wants ever to have to queue for an hour to take 40 more minutes to refuel. You have to drive like my mother to get 70% of the quoted range. Great on paper, but we don't drive on paper.

MJohnston

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody I know would buy one. They are too expensive, wildly costly to fix out of warranty, nobody wants ever to have to queue for an hour to take 40 more minutes to refuel. You have to drive like my mother to get 70% of the quoted range. Great on paper, but we don't drive on paper.

Mad stuff

irishgrover

They are expensive, but the EVs I've had have significantly better spec then the cars they tend to be compared to, and for me total cost of ownership is significantly cheaper than a 3 or 4 year old 2lt diesel.
I've driven 100,000+ in the last 3 years with a lot (and I mean a lot) of fast charging - twice today for example. The last time I had to wait for a charger was certainly close to or more than 3 years ago.
Re fixing out of warranty previously car was hyundai, current one is Kia, both have very extensive warranties.
My current EV is getting 440km per charger. Its advertised as "up to 450". (In fairness I'm been doing limited motorway driving in the last couple of months)
I've never had diesel or petrol that comes close to advertised mpg... ever

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Mad stuff

Maybe, but it's what people say

RandomViewer

McGiver wrote: »

Unkel, I love you for this thing. Great that you always remind people what poison and disgusting technology the diesel is.

Cancerous toxic crap. Also, it costs the EU many bilions in "externalities" (dead and or sick people).

The sooner the diesel engine vehicles in cities are thrown to the dustbin of history the better. There should be no diesel engine used near human settlements and it should be legislated as the such at nearest opportunity. It belongs to the museums and antique collectors. I've no issue with collectors driving diesel cars for the craic on private property or away from the settlements.

Need to sort smoking first, smoking effects more people than any diesel engine but because almost all "Greens" smoke like trains ,it's ignored. Blaming the diesel engine over people dying from cancer who smoke 60 a day is hilarious ,

Silent Running

RandomViewer wrote: »

Need to sort smoking first, smoking effects more people than any diesel engine but because almost all "Greens" smoke like trains ,it's ignored. Blaming the diesel engine over people dying from cancer who smoke 60 a day is hilarious ,

We can't do both?

Cyrus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody I know would buy one. They are too expensive, wildly costly to fix out of warranty, nobody wants ever to have to queue for an hour to take 40 more minutes to refuel. You have to drive like my mother to get 70% of the quoted range. Great on paper, but we don't drive on paper.

Depends on what you are comparing to? A 2k bangernomic diesel or the same car like for like, if the latter then they aren't expensive.

As for the queuing for an hour to refuel for 40 minutes has anyone ever actually done that? Doubtful.

Most do 98 percent of their charging at home

AndyBoBandy

Cyrus wrote: »

Depends on what you are comparing to? A 2k bangernomic diesel or the same car like for like, if the latter then they aren't expensive.

As for the queuing for an hour to refuel for 40 minutes has anyone ever actually done that? Doubtful.

Most do 98 percent of their charging at home

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

Visiting a fast charger once or twice a month is preferable to having to visit the Petrol station every week or two. An EV is full and ready to go every morning.

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

I understand, but the perceived is that it will happen

cannco253

cannco253 wrote: »

Heard about this earlier

Irish student proves his dad wrong by travelling length of Wild Atlantic Way in a Tesla

https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/motoring/irish-student-proves-dad-wrong-24245000

He'd be quicker on a bike

graememk

Deleted User wrote: »

He'd be quicker on a bike

Especially if they went from Malin, to Mizen, its all down hill isnt it? :P

handpref

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

I happened to be in South Dublin for the first time in 6 months today, it was id3 and id4 overload. Have they become the dryrobe for ev’s, I don’t know but they are getting people off fossil fuel so that’s the main thing. Maybe I’m sad the ev journey is over and it’s all gone mainstream, how I miss waiting in line for the abandoned leaf at the M1 services or the smell of the Applegreen toilets and wee soaked floor.

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?
Is the id4 the SUV type car that has filled the vacuum in that end of the market for people in crowded cities who need that big car feeling, but all green miles are good miles.

Remember the fanfare and new owners signing up for the L30 & L40, Tesla starting the fad of pre ordering cars and paying for a car that you haven’t driven. Marketing departments brainstorming ‘First Editions’ that don’t quite work right and have glitchy electronics yet people are lining up to hand over their hard earned cash.

The early adopters who revelled in the cheap running costs with this thing called night rate, manufacturers costings of ownership based on night time charging. New cars that don’t have the option to time a charge would have them turning over on their Lidl plug in seat heaters.

True legends of a bygone era like Phil in Electric Autos, the super fast charging 28kw Ioniq, the great Rex debates, Unkel, the Leaf speed motorway hyper milers, rapid gate, cold gate, Mad Lad, the high five to self as you roll in from work in winter with restricted power for the 5th day in a row.

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

Random Thought: I couldn't recommend EVs to most people in Ireland because the public charging network is so poor and the Greens are fixated on their bike paths.

unkel

handpref wrote: »

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?

Yep I think you hit the nail on the head there. Niro and Kona are good EVs, but they are based on ICE cars costing €10k-15k less. Also availability was pretty poor and the cars weren't great value for money and spec / options left a lot to be desired

Now we get the ID.3 and ID.4 from the biggest car maker in the world. There seems no limit to supply, the prices are reasonable and they are great allrounders. A spec and optional extras to please anyone and solid reasonable financing in place. Launched just when EVs are going mainstream, I've said for several years that 2021 was going to be the year of the EV. Everybody now knows we will all go electric sooner rather than later. VW's timing is proving to be excellent.

AndyBoBandy

Is it a badge of honour when Toyota Ireland first block you from making comments on their Facebook posts, to then blocking you seeing their tweets……

unkel

LOL, surely you didn't accuse them of making false claims about cars that are self-charging by any chance?

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

LOL, surely you didn't accuse them of making false claims about cars that are self-charging by any chance?

Every time they posted something I’d mention that every time I’m behind one of their self charging hybrids I see smoke coming out of the exhaust….. and also this picture…

kanuseeme

I like the bit at 45 seconds. :D:D:D

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Yep I think you hit the nail on the head there. Niro and Kona are good EVs, but they are based on ICE cars costing €10k-15k less. Also availability was pretty poor and the cars weren't great value for money and spec / options left a lot to be desired

Now we get the ID.3 and ID.4 from the biggest car maker in the world. There seems no limit to supply, the prices are reasonable and they are great allrounders. A spec and optional extras to please anyone and solid reasonable financing in place. Launched just when EVs are going mainstream, I've said for several years that 2021 was going to be the year of the EV. Everybody now knows we will all go electric sooner rather than later. VW's timing is proving to be excellent.

I agree, the award for best timing goes to VW

If the ID.3 had come out 5 years ago I don't think it would have been as successful so quickly as it is now. EVs have very much come into the mainstream in the past few years

I hope they can keep up with demand, there's rumours of shortages of just about everything (except batteries ironically) so no doubt that'll start playing into availability soon

the_amazing_raisin

handpref wrote: »

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

I happened to be in South Dublin for the first time in 6 months today, it was id3 and id4 overload. Have they become the dryrobe for ev’s, I don’t know but they are getting people off fossil fuel so that’s the main thing. Maybe I’m sad the ev journey is over and it’s all gone mainstream, how I miss waiting in line for the abandoned leaf at the M1 services or the smell of the Applegreen toilets and wee soaked floor.

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?
Is the id4 the SUV type car that has filled the vacuum in that end of the market for people in crowded cities who need that big car feeling, but all green miles are good miles.

Remember the fanfare and new owners signing up for the L30 & L40, Tesla starting the fad of pre ordering cars and paying for a car that you haven’t driven. Marketing departments brainstorming ‘First Editions’ that don’t quite work right and have glitchy electronics yet people are lining up to hand over their hard earned cash.

The early adopters who revelled in the cheap running costs with this thing called night rate, manufacturers costings of ownership based on night time charging. New cars that don’t have the option to time a charge would have them turning over on their Lidl plug in seat heaters.

True legends of a bygone era like Phil in Electric Autos, the super fast charging 28kw Ioniq, the great Rex debates, Unkel, the Leaf speed motorway hyper milers, rapid gate, cold gate, Mad Lad, the high five to self as you roll in from work in winter with restricted power for the 5th day in a row.

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

Gosh that was a great old rant

Don't worry, while EVs are a lot more common now they're still going to be niche for a while yet, so you can still bore all your neighbours talking about charging rates and electricity prices, and of course how you're planning to get solar panels

Incidentally I've noticed I'm being invited to fewer parties recently, I wonder what that is about...

Regarding your dilemma about charging, well it's up to you but personally I'd just swallow the expense and go for Ionity. Seems simpler than the hassle of borrowing an ICE and organising insurance, etc for a few days

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Incidentally I've noticed I'm being invited to fewer parties recently, I wonder what that is about...

That's because there haven't been any parties for quite some time

KCross

handpref wrote: »

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

....

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

Its hardly "tearing the arse out of the Rex"... isnt that exactly what its designed/intended for?

How far does the i3 go with a full tank of fuel and fully charged battery? Would you do the 313km with just one stop in Cashel?

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Regarding your dilemma about charging, well it's up to you but personally I'd just swallow the expense and go for Ionity. Seems simpler than the hassle of borrowing an ICE and organising insurance, etc for a few days

I was thinking the exact same... if its an occasional long distance trip why worry about the cost of Ionity... just pay it.


If you rock into Cashel (pun intended) and the eCars charger is available, then great hook up to that, but safe in the knowledge that if its not available you have 4 Ionity chargers there also.

NIMAN

As much as I am a fan of EVs, I think the current Renault advert for the Zoe is misleading.

In their advantages listed at the end, they state "no fuel costs".

Are they providing free electricity to charge it?