Random EV thoughts.....

liamog

We're in a good place for the current number of cars on the road, what we're lacking is a network that can cope with the number of new EVs that I expect to be sold in the next 24 months.

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems. I'm taking the Mini for a weekend trip to Galway from Dublin, on the route I'll be passing in reasonable proximity to 14 CCS charge points. That's not bad on a 200km journey.

Isn't that one of, if not the best served routes in the country though? Try to swap out Galway for Donegal, Kerry or Clare and see if you'd be happy setting off.

I don't use the rapid chargers much in Ireland. The reason for that is I don't feel that I could depend on it not to leave me high and dry. For that reason, I've bought an EV with a large battery. If the Irish network was more trustworthy, not only would it encourage uptake of EVs, but it would mean that buyers could choose to buy a car with a smaller battery, knowing that they have a network reliable enough to cover their travels.

I'm not one of the drivers on here constantly crying about the charging network, but I resent the IEVOA declaring that it's fine. It simply isn't. And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/motors-focus-2021/infrastructure-key-to-electric-vehicle-changeover-1.4589749?mode=amp

Am I seeing something that isn't there, because to me, it seems like the IEVOA are saying we are well served already with charging infrastructure & demands for improvement are doomsaying, scaring more people away from BEVs :eek:.

All we need to do is "future proof" our dismal charging network, complete with 99% single point of failure 50kW DC units, here & there, not forgetting our single 3 unit HPC hub, which is limited to 60kW or similar I hear (& the largely useless AC points in selected Tesco stores )

So, the IEVOA are in effect lobbying for "holding firm", we're already there, save the pennies on useless charging infrastructure.

Have I drank a bottle of wine without realising tonight? .

Someone please explain how I'm misreading that!!

I reread part of the article and I'm a bit more on the side of the IEVOA spokesperson now

Havings said that, he could do with being somewhat less diplomatic and a bit cleaer in his points. Generally if I have to unpick someone's meaning from what they said, and it's open to misinterpretation, they're either an awfulspokesperson or an excellent politician

He mentions not wanting technical debt by installing uneeded infrastructure. If he's referring to things like 22kW AC units at Tesco, then he's absolutely spot on. They aren't very useful to EV drivers so what's the point in even installing them now. They'll just need to be upgraded later to the needs of the market so why waste the money on them now

I don't understand why he couldn't simply say this. I guess if IEOVA cause too much grief for the government or ESB then they'll stop being consulted about EV owners opinions

If there was one thing the IEOVA should lobby the government for it's this:

EV charging is an essential public utility in the same way that electricity, communications and fuel are. As such, the public should be afforded the same access to charging as those other services

Busman Paddy Lasty

Silent Running wrote: »

And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

Twice this week needed a DC top up due to ad hoc work. Both times there were three EVs at the triple headers. Me unplugging, next car plugging and last car leaving to get a charge elsewhere. One lad rocked up with 11% because his previous charger location wasn't working.

Busman Paddy Lasty

liamog wrote: »

We're in a good place for the current number of cars on the road, what we're lacking is a network that can cope with the number of new EVs that I expect to be sold in the next 24 months.

Careful now, not all EVs are born equal. We've been buying them by the dozen as company cars. Lads with fuel cards* so these EVs will use a disproportionate amount of DC charging. Once we start buying Transits by the dozen the network will be stressed much faster than tracking private car sales. A fleet of vans hogging charge points, that aren't trailer friendly, will be about as welcome as the GTI** I saw revving the nuts off it in Portlaoise plaza a weeks ago causing a nuisance.

*expense account for eCars bills
** sounded like a DSG transmission ripping around the car park

the_amazing_raisin

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Careful now, not all EVs are born equal. We've been buying them by the dozen as company cars. Lads with fuel cards* so these EVs will use a disproportionate amount of DC charging. Once we start buying Transits by the dozen the network will be stressed much faster than tracking private car sales. A fleet of vans hogging charge points, that aren't trailer friendly, will be about as welcome as the GTI** I saw revving the nuts off it in Portlaoise plaza a weeks ago causing a nuisance.

*expense account for eCars bills
** sounded like a DSG transmission ripping around the car park

This is something which has come up before, I'd be surprised if companies were happy paying high prices for electricity all the time. I imagine they'll either switch to a mileage payment, or when a campany provides an EV they'll also provide a home charger with some capability for usage tracking so this can be claimed back from the employer

ELM327

Theres already functionality for this. Easygo do it for instance. I've spoken to an owner of a company at an EV meet that has switched his fleet to EV, they give the drivers easygo fobs and it tracks all usage and allows access to all DC charging

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres already functionality for this. Easygo do it for instance. I've spoken to an owner of a company at an EV meet that has switched his fleet to EV, they give the drivers easygo fobs and it tracks all usage and allows access to all DC charging

True, I mean more around home charging. For example if I'm an employee and I can either pay for charging at home or get it free at a DC charger...then honestly I'd probably still charge at home

But still, for employers I imagine they'd be seeking to maximise their cost savings and encouraging employees to use expensive chargers doesn't really help this. Considering a comany can buy a home charger for employees at pretty low cost, I imagine the payback time versus using a lot of DC charging is pretty good

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

Busman Paddy Lasty

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

For cars yes AC charging at home or work is best but for fully loaded vans using what, 45kWh/100km(??) they will need to rapid charge a lot. Depending on where the site is could be two rapid charges per day. Was out during bad weather in January tons of pickups all pulling trailer with gritting equipment. They'll be pulling lawnmowers etc in this weather.

silver_sky

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, I mean more around home charging. For example if I'm an employee and I can either pay for charging at home or get it free at a DC charger...then honestly I'd probably still charge at home

But still, for employers I imagine they'd be seeking to maximise their cost savings and encouraging employees to use expensive chargers doesn't really help this. Considering a comany can buy a home charger for employees at pretty low cost, I imagine the payback time versus using a lot of DC charging is pretty good

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

I've heard that they can get usage reports for home chargers for company expenses also. I could see it being a bit messy if the person also has a private car but surely with mileage etc. they could work out if things were amiss - plus you're not talking crazy money for charging.

the_amazing_raisin

silver_sky wrote: »

I've heard that they can get usage reports for home chargers for company expenses also. I could see it being a bit messy if the person also has a private car but surely with mileage etc. they could work out if things were amiss - plus you're not talking crazy money for charging.

Ideally the car could generate a report. It knows where and how much it charged and with plug and charge coming it'll know how much it is paying

NyOmnishambles

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Now that CCS is mentioned, the triple headers will stop a CCS charge if a CHAdeMO session is started. AFAIK this hasn't been fixed so that's an extra dimension to point of failure for CCS users.

This definitely hasn't been fixed
I was charging in Longford recently and had left the charging area to bring my dog for a comfort break

Came back, would have only been gone 10 mins, and a leaf had plugged in and knocked me off

Luckily I only needed a quick top up to get me to my destination and the guy had a little new baby with him so I left him in peace

It was a 202 Leaf so it is likely he hasn't used the public network much and is totally unaware of the issue, I would have been if I didn't read about it here, I have only just recently used public chargers for the first time recently myself

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems.

I won't encounter charging problems, nor will you. We're a tiny minority though - most new BEV owners won't have a clue. I encountered someone today who knew nothing about the car they were driving or how to charge it, funnily enough, at the new hub on the M7.

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Twice this week needed a DC top up due to ad hoc work. Both times there were three EVs at the triple headers. Me unplugging, next car plugging and last car leaving to get a charge elsewhere. One lad rocked up with 11% because his previous charger location wasn't working.

It's not always hypothetical!

Silent Running wrote: »

I'm not one of the drivers on here constantly crying about the charging network, but I resent the IEVOA declaring that it's fine. It simply isn't. And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

That's exactly how it grabbed me.

I think there is a vehement green agenda emerging & even EVs aren't acceptable now. Our transport minister is patently against travel & I think the agenda is build no roads, pedestrianise cities, hamstring EV adoption etc., at all costs.

Brian Leddin is an Irish Green Party politician who has been a Teachta Dála for the Limerick City constituency since the 2020 general election. He was appointed Chair of the Committee on Climate Action

He's vehemently anti car, in any shape or size, electric included. He obviously won't be recommending investing in charging hubs.

https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/plan-for-one-million-electric-cars-by-2030-neither-achievable-nor-desirable-green-td-40552691.html

THE ALM

Further to the DCI EV card options, here are further details. Will ending up costing more than esb etc.

ELM327

So it's 3.50 per month, plus 50c per session, plus the exhorbitant ionity fee? What nonsense is that?

liamog

Save's you filling in an expense form?

ELM327

Not posting this in the bargain thread because EV fixer uppers (especially with HV battery issues!) are not bargains
https://www.merlin.ie/details?listingid=8429a774-4fcf-eb11-89ec-f01fafd9cf1d

But if theres a battery lease wouldnt this be covered by renault under the terms of the lease?

silver_sky

ELM327 wrote: »

Not posting this in the bargain thread because EV fixer uppers (especially with HV battery issues!) are not bargains
https://www.merlin.ie/details?listingid=8429a774-4fcf-eb11-89ec-f01fafd9cf1d

But if theres a battery lease wouldnt this be covered by renault under the terms of the lease?

The question I'd have is - does it still have the battery? Renault may have taken it if the lease wasn't going to be renewed and battery not bought out.

ELM327

It looks like it does, as the "fuel gauge" is at around 20% full in one of the photos.

cannco253

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/how-this-new-plug-in-cupra-tries-to-make-a-difference-40555995.html

"As I’ve repeatedly said, the pros and cons of having a plug-in reduce to one core element when all is said and done: will you use it to get you 50kms of distance under electric power only? With the Formentor the answer, from me this time around, was no. I didn’t recharge it. Simply put, it was too much bother walking half a kilometre back while it was being boosted for a couple of hours – assuming one of the two outlets nearest me was available (they are always quite busy).

But just to show I’m not a complete PHEV abstainer I did use the plug-in facility with the Cupra Leon (as reported briefly last week) to great effect, managing 50kms+ of electric-only driving on one memorable drive. Not plugging-in the Leon would have been a real sin as the facility came with our Galway lodgings for the evening. And that is where having a home charger is essential for anyone thinking of buying a PHEV. Without one, it becomes too easy to do it ‘tomorrow’."

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

liamog

cannco253 wrote: »

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

I think you'd have to be nuts to spend the extra on buying a PHEV and then not have a mechanism to charge at home

silver_sky

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

MJohnston

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

No point in trying to figure all that out when “not allowed to buy a new PHEV” is probably only a few years away

unkel

cannco253 wrote: »

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

Sure why would you have a home charge point installed for free, courtesy of the tax payer? Something that you will need for sure for your next car which is likely to be fully electric? Why would you want to save €4 in fuel every day when you charge it up? Why would you want to go easier on the environment? Surely better wait to install one until you really need one, the subsidy is gone and you will have to pay for it yourself?

JohnC.

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

I don't think it's feasible. Not everyone can have a charge point at home, no matter what kind of car they get.

AndyBoBandy

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

Just dis-incentive the public charging of PHEV's...

Bring in a minimum spend/minimum kWh usage at AC chargers of say 10-15kWh...

So when you hook up to an eCars AC charger, you are immediately debited €2.68 - €4.02 from your account for 10 or 15kWh of electricity.... and when the counter rolls over 10-15kWh, normal per kWh billing resumes...

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Just dis-incentive the public charging of PHEV's...

Bring in a minimum spend/minimum kWh usage at AC chargers of say 10-15kWh...

So when you hook up to an eCars AC charger, you are immediately debited €2.68 - €4.02 from your account for 10 or 15kWh of electricity.... and when the counter rolls over 10-15kWh, normal per kWh billing resumes...

It would also stop people plugging in and dailing down to avail of the handy parking space and people who buy a crapped out EV as a 2nd car and who could easily go from charge point to charge point during the day and have somewhat useful car.

I fail to see what you are trying to achieve, a lot of the newer phevs have 18+ kWh batteries.

I would prefer if you live with your decision to be tied to a charging network than trying to remove others from using it.

kanuseeme

unkel wrote: »

Sure why would you have a home charge point installed for free, courtesy of the tax payer? Something that you will need for sure for your next car which is likely to be fully electric? Why would you want to save €4 in fuel every day when you charge it up? Why would you want to go easier on the environment? Surely better wait to install one until you really need one, the subsidy is gone and you will have to pay for it yourself?

I don't have a proper home charge point, I still start my day with a full battery.

It's not free it's a 600 euro grant, that seems to end up in the electrician's pocket.

My home charge point cost me 50 euro for an outdoor extension reel.

Dubba

I'm not eligible for the €600 grant because I live in a terrace house with a footpath in front of my car space.

I was considering getting an exterior 3 pin wall socket installed and purchasing a commando adapter / cable. I don't fancy spending ~1k on a charge point without the grant

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/masterplug-10a-2-3kw-mode-2-type-1-socket-electric-vehicle-charging-cable-10m/463GV?gclid=CjwKCAjw8cCGBhB6EiwAgORey54XyvzezW13Shgddh3Yq5ssQ8Tk5rc0Z-Q2xO-uiKwe7ttWXh4RSxoC8_4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

kanuseeme

https://www.donedeal.ie/coaches-for-sale/higer-fully-electric-range-comes-to-harris/27738858

The range from the AZURE is industry-leading with 370km on a single charge however with driver training and regeneration this can go to over 400km.

The charging time from 20% is about 2.5 hours and the great news is that the DC charger comes with the vehicle when you buy it from Harris Bus & Coach.
The charging type is CCS2 so it will interact with any DC CCS2 fast charger.
AZURE can also be partly charged so you don't need to leave it charging for hours during the day, it's on the road earning its keep.