Random EV thoughts.....

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513851#Comment_121513851

I'd be the same but then you got to find that independent specialist, none around me that's for sure.

Anyone know of these specialists that can refurb packs and how much does it cost/how long does it take for a modern Tesla?

mailforkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513936#Comment_121513936

Genuine question, why wouldn’t you put 80€ in each time and cut petrol station visits by 50%?

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514089#Comment_121514089

Yep and most cars are now/will be using the BYD blade battery, which is also a nightmare. Due to direct integration into the battery pack, replacing a damaged Blade Battery requires dismantling the entire pack as well. These blade batteries are integrated into the base of the battery pack, eliminating traditional modules and improving space, all good until you have to fix them. If a single cell unit is out of order in them, the capacity loss will be much more than a traditional battery pack. The cost of changing or fixing the blade battery might be unacceptable to a lot of people. Getting the price down on battery packs, density and packaging of course has to have its disadvantages.

And then you've go the software side, which is supposedly even more tricky, like fort knox on some EV's, totally locked down.

EU really have to look at this in my opinion, the right to repair laws are not good with modern cars in general, just look at that battery pack from Tesla you posted, who will want that job 🤣.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514196#Comment_121514196

Technology moves on and the packs on Model S haven't required any repairs at large scale since about 2015 but they still are repairable for example on our 2021 car. Based on the current trends, the battery pack on our current 2021 car will still be in good shape in 2032 when the car will have over 300000 km on the clock. So far there have not been any sign of the modern battery packs requiring any work unless they fail early, which conveniently falls within the warranty period of 8 years/192k in the case of our car, and the manufacturer then just replaces the pack if it can't be repaired.

The question here is: How long will the battery pack last and will there be any reason for them to be repairable apart from museum use? The more rigid the pack the less chance of it breaking down due to vibration and less of the chance for liquid to get it. So far the only pack of type with that foam is the one with 4680 cells and that to me shouts "designed to last for longer than the rest of the car". We shall see in next 15 years if that is the case or if the owners were sold a pup.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514062#Comment_121514062

To be honest I would not buy an EV if I didn't have my own drive. But with home charging the struggle becomes a joy. I may be different but I never found filling up something to look forward, especially the greasy diesel nozzles in the cold wind.

sk8board

The article is about the big dump that EV buyers have had to take in depreciation, due mainly to ‘normal’ depreciation being compounded by the continuous fall in new EV prices.

the maintenance/fuel/warranty arguments are a different conversation.

we have an ICE and an EV, and both are low mileage drivers, so the annual fuel savings are maybe €800 at most.

as the article says - depreciation is by a considerable margin the biggest cost. We don’t really care about the means of propulsion, but everyone is different.

our EV is by far the biggest depreciating vehicle we’ve ever owned, and as a result, probably the most expensive total-cost-of-ownership too

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514154#Comment_121514154

It just kept me mindful of how much fuel I was using and how much it's costing as prices change.

I found it focused the mind a little and I drive more efficiently when I'm lower on fuel.

DaveyDave

I don't miss the petrol station, the ones near me are always busy. Any time I looked around every pump would be €20-30, never understood why people wouldn't just fill the car and go less often.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514638#Comment_121514638

Thats fair enough but it doesnt make a lot of sense to be complaining about how long it takes to fuel your car and then actively conspire to visit the petrol station more often.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514126#Comment_121514126

You can ship a car from one side of country to another for around 200 euro.

Most packs can be totally removed and diagnostics tell you which cells to swap. It's often just a big mechani set to take apart and physically swap parts. Far easier than an engine swap or many other tasks mechanics regularly do. Specialist safety training is needed out petrol tanks are probably more dangerous and internal combustion engines more complicated.

Say a tesla module is 1000 euro with say worst case 3000 euro labour.

Harika

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514831#Comment_121514831

Cause it adds weight to the car, that causes more fuel consumption. 60 kilos more make a difference.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516944#Comment_121516944

As does the multiple trips to the fuel station, wasted time etc.

I used to buy my fuel in bulk for the month before I used EVs. 400L or so. Fill up at home.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516980#Comment_121516980

Was that the agricultural stuff :) ?

sk8board

In this current EV 2nd hand market, fuel savings are one of the smallest parts of the total cost of ownership.

someone in their diesel hatchback doing 12,000km pa is adding 1000km of diesel every 4-6wks and it takes about 3-4min. That’s about €1000 pa on fuel, or 750-800€ savings if it was a EV charged at home - it’s a pretty small part of the total cost of ownership.

the total cost of ownership for EV buyers still holding on to a 20,21,22,23 car has been truly awful - it’s just that they haven’t crystallised that loss yet.

the only EVs selling in the 2nd hand market are the keen or bargain priced ones. Every mid-price ad I’ve saved just sits on sale month after month.

the 2nd hand EV market has a long long way to fall still folks.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516944#Comment_121516944

Half a tank would typically be about 25 kg extra.

sk8board

I can’t believe we’re worrying about the weight of fuel in a car, and ignoring the fact that anyone with a €60k EV has probably lost €25k in about the first 2 years of ownership if they were to try to get out of it.

late 21 or 22 m3 LR for €66k?

or god forbid a €75k Mach-e or ID4 GTX?

ask those people about their overnight unit electricity rates 🙄.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517098#Comment_121517098

The tides have really turned now it seems, fuel saving was the end all and be all, only a short time ago for EV ownership.

I spend 60e a week in diesel it will be 10e if I buy an EV, que the replies of buy buy buy, your nuts spending that much on diesel, you'll save 50e a week on diesel, 10e a week on tax, 20e a week on servicing, 20e a week if you need NCT work, new car for free if you buy an EV. Those threads used to pop up frequently, all gone quiet now

Random EV thought

I have asked EV owners this question and a lot won't answer it, if your are rich and fuel cost is irrelevant, your loaded, would you drive an EV on long trips and put up with that 45 min charging to 80%? Yes or no

I definitely wouldn't drive one on long trips, a nice comfy Audi that can do 800km to a tank and refuel in 2 mins is bliss, having to mess with apps, connecting to car, wait around in a car park, time is money, time is not something you get back

I would have an EV for short trips though, the EV drivetrain is way better than ICE, instant power, no dirty diesel or petrol smell, its a massive improvement.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517086#Comment_121517086

aye and anything else I could get my hands on. Doing 50-60k a year then, it wasnt cheap!

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517154#Comment_121517154

Whatever about worrying about the impact on efficiency of a full tank of fuel, what I don't get is the regularly made point about having to go to a petrol stn being such a waste of time and used as a stick to beat ICEs but still act in a manner which requires you to visit a stn more often.

If time is so precious, above all else, fill the bloody tank each time you make a special round trip from home to squirt a bit of fuel into the car. Of course with even the most cursory planning youd drop into a stn to fill up en route so saving even more of that most precious time.

MojoMaker

Numerous posters on here - probably not a surprise as it's an EV forum - have indicated that cost to run was only part of the equation for buying an EV, for some people quite a small part. Many have raised their hand to say that even if all things were equal and cost of ownership and cost to run was higher than an ICE they would still buy an EV. It's both a mindshift and a lifestyle decision to get away from fossil fuel vehicles, even if there's a penalty attached.

Early adopters, in EV terms, are not people buying EVs now, it's the folks that bought EVs 10 years ago when the choices were much smaller and the charging grid very patchy indeed. Had I been a bit more clued in I would have done it myself - but couldn't see beyond the propaganda around what we now know to be filthy carcinogenic polluters.

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517192#Comment_121517192

I have asked EV owners this question and a lot won't answer it, if your are rich and fuel cost is irrelevant, your loaded, would you drive an EV on long trips and put up with that 45 min charging to 80%? Yes or no

I definitely wouldn't drive one on long trips, a nice comfy Audi that can do 800km to a tank and refuel in 2 mins is bliss, having to mess with apps, connecting to car, wait around in a car park, time is money, time is not something you get back

Heres an answer - Yes.

I have an EV that is a company car doing 40,000km+ per year so a lot of long trips all over the country. Company pays for charging so I am not worried about cost.

The reality is if your driving an ICE or an EV, you should take a break after a couple of hours driving if for nothing else than to reduce fatigue and avoid falling asleep at the wheel. So I simply plan those stops with charging and no time is wasted.

If I'm doing shorter journeys, then i'm charging up at home nightly or at the hotel Im staying at ( I never stay at a hotel that doesn't have charging facilities).

And I dont miss the smell of fuel & exhaust at fillings stations or having to take time off to get my car serviced twice a year.

Plenty of others here do trips in the summer over on the mainland crossing several countries in an EV.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but in reality your questions are based on assumptions rather than a lived experience.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517192#Comment_121517192

I'll answer this.

Yes I'll still take the EV over the diesel.

I have 2020 M3P and my wife has a 2021 BMW 840d.

I've to go to Tyrone tomorrow (from Dublin), a bit of driving around there and back to Dublin tomorrow night.

Not a question I'm getting into the BMW. The Tesla is quieter, faster and the technology is light years ahead of the BMW (the screen in her car is like a 6610 nokia).

One stop for 10 minutes on the way up in castlebellingham and a 15 minute stop on the way back. I'll do that every day before I'd consider the diesel option.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517333#Comment_121517333

Thanks for answering.

Nice car collection, M3P what a car

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517326#Comment_121517326

Workwise I would say yes too. EV's might be a good thing to enforce tacho breaks in the future for heavy goods

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517192#Comment_121517192

Answer, yes , I’d take the EV everytime.

Do Belfast runs twice a month. Charge EV to 100% and drive the M1 exactly as n would in any of my other cars.

Sometimes I’ll plug it in up there if I’m passing a charger and it’s free. It takes absolutely no time out of my trip as I’d be parked uk in titanic Belfast or around the corner either way. Better to be charging while I’m in the building than not.

If I don’t charge, I have more than enough to get back to castle Bellingham and charge for 10-15 mins. By the time I’m out of the toilet it’s time to go.

Now, that’s when I’m driving like I don’t care. If I controlled my speed and resist the overtaking urges, k can do the trip without stopping at all or without getting a charge up there at all.

I still go back to the famous quote, “people who don’t own EV’s worry and post about range more than people who actually own EV’s”.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517401#Comment_121517401

Not to be that guy, but if your charging for 10-15 min is that even a long trip?

Dublin to Belfast is what a 90 min drive?

Cork - Dublin would be minimum a long trip for me and then I like alot of families have went to France on holidays with kids, Clare to Rosslare to Pembroke, tunnel

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517429#Comment_121517429

It’s a 2 hour door to door trip depending on traffic. Any longer and I’d have to stop anyway. I’m not a long distance driving fan tbh.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517192#Comment_121517192

EV. No contest.

Have also a VW amorak, lovely to drive(Its also an automatic). But if I had the choice, my EV without question. And its a Kia Niro. Can get from nearly the most northernly point in Ireland to dublin, Via Belfast. without charging, without watching my speed either. Although do need to charge to get home!

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517429#Comment_121517429

A small bladder and tiredness are common symptoms easily fixed by owning an EV, the shorter the range the better.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517490#Comment_121517490

The biggest petrol tank in the world and I’d still have to stop before 2 hours with the kids. EV or ICE is irrelevant in that equation.