Random EV thoughts.....

Mike3287

eagerv wrote: »

Does the average driver used to diesels with similar power and less torque need/want much more?

Our Ioniq IMO is a very nice drive, just a pity other manufacturers aren't producing something as efficient at a lower price point.

Dont insult your Ioniq like that ;-)

Class car and ahead of its time all those years back

It can get the same range as those 45kWh PSA cars with its 28kWh pack :-)

eagerv

Mike3287 wrote: »

Dont insult your Ioniq like that ;-)

Class car and ahead of its time all those years back

It can get the same range as those 45kWh PSA cars with its 28kWh pack :-)

I wasn't:). Just would like to see more small, smaller battery efficient cars, for mainstream buyers.

Mike3287

eagerv wrote: »

I wasn't:). Just would like to see more small, smaller battery efficient cars, for mainstream buyers.

Me too ;-)

It ain't coming from PSA right now

VW ID3 should be interesting

liamog

Mike3287 wrote: »

I just dont understand your praise of them?

More choice is needed on the market, Groupe PSA are doing this, unlike some people I can look beyond my own needs and desires and see why this is good for general EV adoption and makes buying an EV "normal" decision.

Maybe it's time to grow beyond the attitude of, "I don't want it, therefore it's rubbish"

Mike3287

liamog wrote: »

More choice is needed on the market, Groupe PSA are doing this, unlike some people I can look beyond my own needs and desires and see why this is good for general EV adoption and makes buying an EV "normal" decision.

Maybe it's time to grow beyond the attitude of, "I don't want it, therefore it's rubbish"

Can do better is something I should grow beyond?

unkel

While pretty much most of us in here are fans of the accelerated move from ICE to EVs, I feel it is also our duty to be critical of any new EV offerings. Some of us are more critical than others, but I certainly welcome the opinions of the most critical people.

Gives a bit of balance against the nearly total evangelism (and complete lack of criticism) I come across regularly on other media...

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

While pretty much most of us in here are fans of the accelerated move from ICE to EVs, I feel it is also our duty to be critical of any new EV offerings. Some of us are more critical than others, but I certainly welcome the opinions of the most critical people.

Gives a bit of balance against the nearly total evangelism (and complete lack of criticism) I come across regularly on other media...

I'm not in favor of anything being enforced.
I'm a fan of the tech, thats it. Every time I change car the option of everything from 12cylinder petrols and 10 cylinder diesels down to EVs is open.


I don't think we should be enforcing change. Let the tech speak for itself.


I also agree we should be critical where needed

liamog

There's a difference between being critical, and just completely missing the mark. The e208 and it's ilk are fwd supermini's. Criticising them for being small is a bit ridiculous, and they don't need extreme performance to be useful cars to a large amount of people.

unkel

I don't disagree, liamog. But if you offer a supermini for pretty much the same price as cars a level up in spec, size and performance, then there is a problem.

I have ridiculed the price of the Renault Zoe 40 in the past. It was roughly the same price as a Hyundai Ioniq or Nissan Leaf 40. The latter have similar range, but are far better specced and also are a full class up in size. And a level up in performance.

A supermini for nearly EU30k is not going to cut it, unless it has some USP. Like hot hatch performance and near premium build quality in case of your MINI electric. The e208 would have needed to be GTI fast to justify the price tag. I have to say I am with Mike3287 there in his criticism

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

There's a difference between being critical, and just completely missing the mark. The e208 and it's ilk are fwd supermini's. Criticising them for being small is a bit ridiculous, and they don't need extreme performance to be useful cars to a large amount of people.

My criticism is generally reserved for clear crap (like lack of thermal management) or price gouging (50k before grants for a lot of non premium EVs).

slave1

I have to criticise Tesla for their lack of heat pump, it's standard in the Model Y, a tiny piece of equipment and will surely make it's way to future S, X and 3's sooner rather than later.

liamog

As a first push it's not that bad, the electric premium is too high at around €6,000, giving it a rough cost parity as the end of year 5.
If you look at the power to weight ration, the e208 (65.4 W/kg) comes in as more powerful than the Ioniq 28 (58.9 W/kg), which didn't feel like any kind of slouch.

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

I have to criticise Tesla for their lack of heat pump, it's standard in the Model Y, a tiny piece of equipment and will surely make it's way to future S, X and 3's sooner rather than later.

That was one of my deciding factors against the ID.3 1st, VW made a graph showing ID.3 range of 350km with a heat pump, and 290km without at 0°C. It was pretty much a consistent 60km delta between -5°C and 10°C, which probably covers us for 8 months of the year.

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

I have to criticise Tesla for their lack of heat pump

Not convinced by its importance. For sure it's far more efficient than resistive heating, so it would make a big difference in a car with a tiny battery that you forgot to pre-heat, like Ioniq 28kWh. With no heat pump, your range would be so significantly low that you might not make your journey that day

In a 85-100kWh Tesla, using an extra few kWh with an inefficient heater makes feck all difference to being able to do your journey or not that day for 99.9% of its owners. It certainly would make no difference to me. If I'd had the option of a heatpump I would have paid no more than EUR100 extra for it.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

If I'd had the option of a heatpump I would have paid no more than EUR100 extra for it.

Can you pick options on used cars? :pac:

unkel

BrownFinger wrote: »

Can you pick options on used cars? :pac:

Sometimes you can have options fitted / enabled in modern cars

If you look at the various Model S related threads in here, a lot of owners have opted to get the main dealer to do a CCS conversion on their second hand cars. Something that was not possible / not an option when the cars were new.

graememk

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ban-sought-on-advertising-of-petrol-and-diesel-cars/

Even macra are coming out to push EV's , and the roll out of better infrastructure in rural areas.

ELM327

BrownFinger wrote: »

Can you pick options on used cars? :pac:

I added options to my car after buying it at 3 years old.
-550 quid on CCS conversion.


I also intend on adding the MCU2 upgrade when it's available

liamog

In particular, the young farmers’ association said that installing new electric vehicle (EV) chargers throughout the country – and primarily focusing on areas of rural Ireland which lack charger infrastructure – “is another step toward making the purchase of electric cars more attractive”.

What is the big gap with charging infrastructure in rural areas, Bob Flavin has mentioned the same in some of his reviews. Are there really that many people who live in rural areas and do not have private off street parking?

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

What is the big gap with charging infrastructure in rural areas, Bob Flavin has mentioned the same in some of his reviews. Are there really that many people who live in rural areas and do not have private off street parking?

It's a gap in mindset IMO
Rural ireland is perfect for long range EVs like the Soul, Niro etc

Stealthirl

Been offered a 191 Leaf40 Tekna privately with 17K km
Problem is ill have to sell my 142 Leaf24 Tekna first.
It's got 91%SoH and 65k km with the 6.6kW and solar panel.
I have a price in mind but wanted to get feedback on what you all think it's worth as Motorcheck.ie said just under €8K and carzone/donedeal seam to sugest €10-12k

unkel

€8k is far too low. Even for a base model, and you have the top end Tekna. Try put it up for €10500 and see what you get? Not sure from when in the second half of 2014 the car is, but if not the very first week of July, it will have a tiny bit of battery / drivetrain warranty left, you could use this in the ad as one of the pros of your car.

How much were you offered the L40 for?

Stealthirl

unkel wrote: »

€8k is far too low. Even for a base model, and you have the top end Tekna. Try put it up for €10500 and see what you get? Not sure from when in the second half of 2014 the car is, but if not the very first week of July, it will have a tiny bit of battery / drivetrain warranty left, you could use this in the ad as one of the pros of your car.

How much were you offered the L40 for?

It's an Oct car so tax/nct due then and i had thought about waiting until then and selling with fresh tax/nct.
€26.5k for the L40

unkel

Stealthirl wrote: »

€26.5k for the L40

I wouldn't.

You'll have a brand new ID.3 in 2021 for not much more than that. There's also a 2020 eGolf for sale from a dealer for not much more than €25k. Neither are suitable if you have more than 2 kids though.

Chances are that Leaf won't be worth much more than about €17-€18k in a years time.

Mike3287

unkel wrote: »

I wouldn't.

You'll have a brand new ID.3 in 2021 for not much more than that. There's also a 2020 eGolf for sale from a dealer for not much more than €25k. Neither are suitable if you have more than 2 kids though.

Chances are that Leaf won't be worth much more than about €17-€18k in a years time.

Yeah man

26.5k for a 36kWh useable Leaf is madness

I'd be calling into VW garages for 34k ID3

ELM327

26k is a ripoff for that leaf, DONT DO IT!!

Stealthirl

unkel wrote: »

I wouldn't.

You'll have a brand new ID.3 in 2021 for not much more than that. There's also a 2020 eGolf for sale from a dealer for not much more than €25k. Neither are suitable if you have more than 2 kids though.

Chances are that Leaf won't be worth much more than about €17-€18k in a years time.

€26.5k is the lower end for a Tekna/SVE with that mileage unless someone knows where id get one for less?
The leaf has been the number 1 selling electric car here since it came out[Last year was joint 1st] and i don't see the price dropping that much in 12months. everyone was saying that 12 months ago, that the Kona and M3 would kill the leaf.

€7.5k is a fair bit more for the ID.3 and if i was going for one it would be the + which is even more and if i was to spend that much id rather an K3 eSoul

Not keen on the eGolf/ionic [roof line too low for disabled passenger] unless it was a cracker of a deal on an executive Golf.

I'd be in a Zoe40 except for the size

So with a max of €30k there's not much options except wait for this Leaf price drop while i lose a bar maybe 2 on my 24 waiting for eSoul price to drop or see what the El-Born/Enyaq have to offer and if i could then stretch to them.

Would the 1st bar loss not decrease the appeal of my L24 even more in a years time when it might only be worth 9k ?

liamog

Stealthirl wrote: »

So with a max of €30k there's not much options except wait for this Leaf price drop while i lose a bar maybe 2 on my 24 waiting for eSoul price to drop or see what the El-Born/Enyaq have to offer and if i could then stretch to them.

The other thing to consider is the non 1st edition ID.3 should be out by then, it's only a 330km range, so similar to the Leaf, but is widely expected to start below 30k. If I was in your position, I'd at least wait until then. I wouldn't expect your Leaf to lose more than €500 in the next 6 monts.

Stealthirl

liamog wrote: »

I wouldn't expect your Leaf to lose more than €500 in the next 6 monts.

Some people value that 1 bar, particularly the 1st one.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

The other thing to consider is the non 1st edition ID.3 should be out by then

That was my point, hence I mentioned 2021, brand new ID.3 won't cost much more than that 2019 Leaf and will have more range

A user here just got a 2019 Kona 64kWh for €30k. That has near twice the range of the Leaf and can charge near twice as quickly too.

But it looks like your really, really want a Leaf, so no one stopping you here. It's your moneys! But expect steep depreciation over the next few years compared to other EVs. The Leaf is a 10 year old car, really on its last legs, terribly inefficient, obsolete charging standard and no battery cooling