Random EV thoughts.....

zg3409

charlieIRL wrote: »

Not sure if I asked this before but is it possible to use a public charger before you get your swipe card to start / stop the chargers? (I.e e-card or EasyGo card)

Easygo can be started with their android (only) app, or via the website. They also have their own fob. The fob or RFID card needs to be easygo. There is talk of full interoperability with esb cards and vice versa in the future, possibly next year, but for now easygo only.

Esb recommend only using their own cards. Apparently some bank cards can cause the chargers to go faulty, so they claim. There are some universal European/UK roaming cards that work on esb and long term should work when payment is required. Similar for ionity, they gave an app, and some roaming fobs work, but payment is needed either way. Long term the market is going towards touch to pay debit or credit cards with no account, although that may require hardware changes to the existing chargers. Esb in UK have bolted on credit card readers.

Silent Running

zg3409 wrote: »

Easygo can be started with their android (only) app, or via the website. They also have their own fob. The fob or RFID card needs to be easygo. There is talk of full interoperability with esb cards and vice versa in the future, possibly next year, but for now easygo only.

Esb recommend only using their own cards. Apparently some bank cards can cause the chargers to go faulty, so they claim. There are some universal European/UK roaming cards that work on esb and long term should work when payment is required. Similar for ionity, they gave an app, and some roaming fobs work, but payment is needed either way. Long term the market is going towards touch to pay debit or credit cards with no account, although that may require hardware changes to the existing chargers. Esb in UK have bolted on credit card readers.

I noticed that the newer triple head chargers have a square cutout near the card swipe. It's sealed up for the moment, but it's the perfect size for a card reader.

Mickeroo

You can use the Charge My EV app on your phone to stop and start the ESB chargers if you don't have a card and don't want to ring them.

Black_Knight

Never knew range rover did a phev. Spotted one (along side a 330e) charging at a slow charger in dungarvan. Luckily dungarvan has 2 slow chargers otherwise if be a long time waiting (BMW was at least 2 hours that I know of at the slow charger).

kanuseeme

check the price of them....

Black_Knight

kanuseeme wrote: »

check the price of them....

No wonder he was getting some free fuel in. Who would buy that when there's an e-pace or e-tron for similar money!?

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

No wonder he was getting some free fuel in. Who would buy that when there's an e-pace or e-tron for similar money!?

Someone I know who has a new range rover every 18 months to 2 years
Wouldnt consider buying anything else. He told me he'd buy a BEV range rover if it existed but he's considering the phev model next time.

Black_Knight

Stolen from Reddit, but interesting to have a side by side comparison. At least you'd expect it to be relative to itself.

https://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/

Didn't think the Kona Vs eNiro would be so different.

Jag and Audi don't compare well for efficiency against the model X (I'd class them all the same kinda vehicle in EV world ... Big, luxury).

McGiver

Black_Knight wrote: »

Stolen from Reddit, but interesting to have a side by side comparison. At least you'd expect it to be relative to itself.

https://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/

Didn't think the Kona Vs eNiro would be so different.

Jag and Audi don't compare well for efficiency against the model X (I'd class them all the same kinda vehicle in EV world ... Big, luxury).

What temperature are those figures for? Seems very high to me, definitely not Irish summer half the year (say more than 15 C).

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

What temperature are those figures for? Seems very high to me, definitely not Irish summer half the year (say more than 15 C).

Seems pretty realistic looking at Ioniq values, if anything a little conservative

Black_Knight

Neat video of making an i3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uwrpDhs2gI

KCross

It looks like there will be alot of PHEV's revealed at Frankfurt motor show!

https://www.carsuk.net/seat-tarraco-fr-suv-gets-a-plug-in-hybrid-powertrain-seats-first-phev/

https://www.carsuk.net/new-peugeot-3008-suv-gt-hybrid4-gets-297bhp-4wd-and-29g-km-emissions/


What struck me seeing these articles is that there isnt really that many EV's to choose from in the SUV market and its the style that people want. These two are coming in at really low CO2 rates, 13kWh+ batteries, 50km EV range and decent performance.... I can see alot of people choosing these over smaller hatchback BEV's.

unkel

Seat Terraco is the same platform as the Skoda Kodiaq isn't it? I see a lot of those around here. Most of them now petrol. The extra subsidy on a PHEV and the VRT reduction and the lower tax plus nearly free charger and then most journeys on dirt cheap electricity will offset a good bit of the extra cost of the PHEV over the petrol, probably save money over the years. So I'd say that car will be very popular here indeed.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

The extra subsidy on a PHEV and the VRT reduction ...

I'd bet the government will mess with both of those incentives in the upcoming budget. As recommedned in the climate action report I'd say they will remove the subsidy entirely for hybrids (hitting Toyota the most) but I think they will also start a reduction of the incentives for PHEV's.

Incentives have already been completely removed in the UK late last year for PHEV's and we seem to follow them for these kind of things... except for Brexit I suppose!

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I'd bet the government will mess with both of those incentives in the upcoming budget. As recommedned in the climate action report I'd say they will remove the subsidy entirely for hybrids (hitting Toyota the most) but I think they will also start a reduction of the incentives for PHEV's.

Agreed. Grants for hybrids are completely outdated now. All grants even for PHEV and BEV need to be carefully assessed so as not to let them go entirely to the manufacturers.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

All grants even for PHEV and BEV need to be carefully assessed so as not to let them go entirely to the manufacturers.

How do you do that though? Grants are usually a disaster unless you can keep the supplier out of the equation. Anything the SEAI administer is a balls up as far as I can see as they wrap it up in knots with paperwork and registered installers who see it as an opportunity to charge more "because Im registered"!

Something through your tax returns (like they do in the US) might be a better approach?

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Something through your tax returns (like they do in the US) might be a better approach?

Probably a better system alright. See if Hyundai will sell any €50k base spec Kona EV then

September1

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

KCross

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

That would make for interesting negotiation during second hand sale.... "no no no, i insist, i'll tax it for ya"!

McGiver

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

.
Good idea but complicated. And that's not ambitious enough. Just follow Norway - Eliminate subsidies going to dealers/car makers, reduce motor tax to zero, reduce registration tax to zero, introduce VAT exemption.

Motor tax - zero for EVs, immediately and indefinitely until we get critical mass of EVs on the road while simultaneously increasing motor tax for ICE based on CO2, NOx and PM. Diesel engine which is the most ubiquitous yet the most polluting piece of technology would get hit hard and quickly eliminated, people would swap to petrol first, hybrid second and finally EVs.

Basing motor tax on CO2 is totally wrong as is subsidies givens away to dealers.

redcup342

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

No such thing as Road Tax

KCross

These pair of 150kW high power chargers got installed recently near Heathrow airport by BP who are just started a program of rolling them out across the UK at their stations where they will also support CHAdeMO upto 200A (80kW) although these initial two are limited to 50kW on CHAdeMO.


https://twitter.com/BP_UK/status/1167450833941741568


There certainly is alot more civil work involved under the rapids than you'd expect and those cables were pretty thick!

unkel

KCross wrote: »

those cables were pretty thick!

I wonder what input voltage is fed into these chargers like the Ionity ones that can output 500A @800V (>350kW)?

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

These pair of 150kW high power chargers got installed recently near Heathrow airport by BP who are just started a program of rolling them out across the UK at their stations where they will also support CHAdeMO upto 200A (80kW) although these initial two are limited to 50kW on CHAdeMO.





There certainly is alot more civil work involved under the rapids than you'd expect and those cables were pretty thick!

BP now own the Polar network too. I wonder why they don't re-brand the whole thing.

dloob

Interesting experience at the weekend, took my 120Ah i3S up to Dublin from Galway and back again on Saturday.
The wind had a huge effect on the range.
It was a pretty breezy morning so there was a strong tail wind on the way up with a somewhat lighter head wind when heading back down in the evening.
I charged at the kinnegad plaza on the way up and back and made a note of the percentage used.
I'm not far from the motorway start in Galway so most of the 145km to Kinnegad was at 120km using the cruise control.
It was pretty obvious on the way up that the tail wind was a great help, consumption at 120kmh was only 19kwh/100km instead of the low 20s.
It slowly crept up to 19.9 as we moved further east and the wind decreased.
Arrived in Kinnegad having used 73%
Charged up there again on the way back later that evening but the this time the 145km back to home took 88%!
That was a much bigger difference than I expected, 15%!
Looking at the figures 100% range with the wind would have been 198km and against it 164km, a 34km difference.

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Black_Knight

dloob wrote: »

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Speakev forum kinda answered this, or at least gave some potential reasoning.

Electric motor is much more efficient than an ICE in terms of how much energy contained in the "fuel" is converted into the torque that moves the car. As a result, anything that increase the amount of the needed torque will have a disproportionately greater effect on the more efficient design. This means the rain impacts both an EV and an ICE, but disproportionately more the EV, whilst the ICE "hides" that additional requirement in its overall inefficiency.

I buy that, until I wonder is the additional power required to generate that torque not also generated inefficiently in ICE, thus being just as wasteful??

redcup342

dloob wrote: »

Interesting experience at the weekend, took my 120Ah i3S up to Dublin from Galway and back again on Saturday.
The wind had a huge effect on the range.
It was a pretty breezy morning so there was a strong tail wind on the way up with a somewhat lighter head wind when heading back down in the evening.
I charged at the kinnegad plaza on the way up and back and made a note of the percentage used.
I'm not far from the motorway start in Galway so most of the 145km to Kinnegad was at 120km using the cruise control.
It was pretty obvious on the way up that the tail wind was a great help, consumption at 120kmh was only 19kwh/100km instead of the low 20s.
It slowly crept up to 19.9 as we moved further east and the wind decreased.
Arrived in Kinnegad having used 73%
Charged up there again on the way back later that evening but the this time the 145km back to home took 88%!
That was a much bigger difference than I expected, 15%!
Looking at the figures 100% range with the wind would have been 198km and against it 164km, a 34km difference.

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

I don't think anyone would monitor their petrol/diesel consumption so closely either  so that could also be part of it.

unkel

dloob wrote: »

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Because ICE has 10 times as much energy on board compared to an EV. A bit more rain / cold / wind or driving a bit faster on the motorway doesn't make an awful lot of difference

In an EV however, most range calculations are almost best case scenario. Bit faster, but of head wind, bit colder and all of a sudden you drop 20%-30% in range or more

Water John

Unkel is correct, One can compare an ICE to an open fireplace and an EV is a stove.

Mike9832

Porsche Taycan

What a car

93kWh
0-200 9.8secs
450km range
0-160-0 10.0 secs
270kW charging

Putting a deposit on this

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/news/536b182