Random EV thoughts.....

ELM327

If I had a phev I'd want it to be plugged in though, save the puny battery capacity!

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Perhaps so, but a tiny PHEV battery will be depleted very quickly when not plugged in and the car's 7kW heat pump is heating the cabin

A 7kW heat pump would heat a house :eek:.

The X5 45e uses a 3.7kW resistive heater & usually gets the cabin up to 21c within 30 minutes. It has 20kWh usable energy available.

My 530e is usually plugged in & defrosted/preheated by 8am. Yes, a 9.2kWh battery is limiting, but using 2kWh of that on occasion, when away/not plugged in, is a small price to pay for defrosted windows & a warm cabin.

I still have enough energy onboard to drive 700kms, without the need to stop for a charge.

:pac:.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

A 7kW heat pump would heat a house :eek:.

The X5 45e uses a 3.7kW resistive heater & usually gets the cabin up to 21c within 30 minutes.

Resisitive heater in a €50k car? German overpriced junk

€25k Ioniq has a 7kW heat pump as standard and would heat the cabin up to 21C in about a minute.

the_amazing_raisin

I feel like I'm against the crowd as I've got my Leaf set to preheat every day (precool in summer)

I feel it's best to give the cabin a blast of fresh air, especially now that the car sits idle 5-6 days of the week. Stops the inside getting damp and mouldy

It uses hardly any battery, maybe 1-2% in the coldest part of the year but makes driving so much nicer

MJohnston

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I feel like I'm against the crowd as I've got my Leaf set to preheat every day (precool in summer)

I feel it's best to give the cabin a blast of fresh air, especially now that the car sits idle 5-6 days of the week. Stops the inside getting damp and mouldy

It uses hardly any battery, maybe 1-2% in the coldest part of the year but makes driving so much nicer

I'm with you! The irony is the people saying they'd rather do it manually every day are the same ones who complain that an untethered cable takes an extra 30 seconds to connect :pac:

unkel

MJohnston wrote: »

an untethered cable takes an extra 30 seconds to connect :pac:

Takes a lot longer than 30s extra to connect / disconnect an untethered cable for one charging session. I guess the people having no problem with that are the same people that save themselves €0.30 a pop by hooking up their car to every single free public charger they come across :pac:

Personally I have a tethered charge point at home, charge once or twice a week and only ever connect to a public charge point if it gives me at least 22kW of power and I stay there for about an hour at least. I didn't even bother hooking up the loaner car I had for the last 3 weeks as it could only charge at 17kW

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Takes a lot longer than 30s extra to connect / disconnect an untethered cable for one charging session. I guess the people having no problem with that are the same people that save themselves €0.30 a pop by hooking up their car to every single free public charger they come across :pac:

Personally I have a tethered charge point at home, charge once or twice a week and only ever connect to a public charge point if it gives me at least 22kW of power and I stay there for about an hour at least. I didn't even bother hooking up the loaner car I had for the last 3 weeks as it could only charge at 17kW

Sounds like you're lazy enough to benefit from scheduled preconditioning, just like me

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Takes a lot longer than 30s extra to connect / disconnect an untethered cable for one charging session. I guess the people having no problem with that are the same people that save themselves €0.30 a pop by hooking up their car to every single free public charger they come across :pac:

Personally I have a tethered charge point at home, charge once or twice a week and only ever connect to a public charge point if it gives me at least 22kW of power and I stay there for about an hour at least. I didn't even bother hooking up the loaner car I had for the last 3 weeks as it could only charge at 17kW

I timed myself at lidl a few months back. Was 30 seconds from getting out of the car to walking away from the car with the app in hand initialising the charge. Couple of seconds less when it's home charging, but if I were to choose again, i'd go tethered at home. Inexperience caught me out there.

I'll time myself again tomorrow when I head there. :cool:

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Takes a lot longer than 30s extra to connect / disconnect an untethered cable for one charging session. I guess the people having no problem with that are the same people that save themselves €0.30 a pop by hooking up their car to every single free public charger they come across :pac:

Cable from boot, plug in to car on the way past, then plug into charger. Does not take 30s. Similar on the unplug op, unplug from charger, unplug from car, place in boot. I know the Model S is a big car but how long is taking you to walk around

unkel

Challenge for you Liam. You sit in car with door closed. As soon as you open the door the clock starts. You get out, get cable from car, plug into car, plug into charger, start charge, go back into car. Close door. Stop charge, open door, take out cable, put back in car. Close boot. Timer stops. Can you do that within 30 seconds?

I say you can't. Prove me wrong!

liamog

There are two tests.

1. Car stopped in parking space to plugged in.
2. Unplugged to ready to drive.

It's my belief that neither of these operations are 30s longer when using an untethered cable.

unkel

One charge consists of start charge and stop charge. The question is, is one charge only 30s slower on a non-tethered charge point? Or to simplify let's just take half of one charge: just charging (plugging in). And see does that only take 15s more.

Tethered: get out of car, plug charger into car. My daughter has just timed me, took me 6s. I'm old and not so agile

Untethered: get out of car, get cable out of boot, connect cable to charge point, plug other end into car. Can any of you young sporty agile folk do that in less than 21s? Video or it didn't happen

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Challenge for you Liam. You sit in car with door closed. As soon as you open the door the clock starts. You get out, get cable from car, plug into car, plug into charger, start charge, go back into car. Close door. Stop charge, open door, take out cable, put back in car. Close boot. Timer stops. Can you do that within 30 seconds?

I say you can't. Prove me wrong!

Do you have to open the charge port from outside or can you open it from inside the car?

unkel

I think in most EVs you can open it from inside the car?

liamog

In order to make it a fair test, you'd need the same person with the same car using a tethered and untethered charger. Anything else is open to abuse

It takes me longer to plug the Ioniq in than the Mini because I always have to go back into the car to press the damn button!

Here you go, a random clip from my doorcam, I wasn't even trying, but gives you decent idea.

graememk

unkel wrote: »

I think in most EVs you can open it from inside the car?

Can't in the niro, it's just your normal push to open/unlatch kind of thing.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Resisitive heater in a €50k car? German overpriced junk

The X5 45e is well over €100k :eek:

unkel wrote: »

€25k Ioniq has a 7kW heat pump as standard and would heat the cabin up to 21C in about a minute.

Does your high end, tech fest, €70k+ Model S have a heat pump?

I think you're regretting parting ways with your Ioniq :pac:.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

In order to make it a fair test

If I showed you my setup, I would feel like cheating. There literally is 50cm distance (or 1 second time) between the charge port of my car and the location of the connector (in the bushes)

Kramer wrote: »

The X5 45e is well over €100k :eek:

You must love depreciation :eek: Would you not have brought a nearly new one in from the UK? BMW PHEV over there are dirt cheap.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Does your high end, tech fest, €70k+ Model S have a heat pump?

I think you're regretting parting ways with your Ioniq :pac:.

A heat pump in Ireland is a load of nonsense. I said that when I had one in Ioniq. In a car with a tiny battery like Ioniq or your PHEV it will make a noticeable distance in range alright but in an EV with a decent size battery it makes no difference

liamog

Don't get me wrong, if I could, I would of bought a tethered charger, but I think 30s is a fair assessment of about how much time it adds. Basically not enough to inspire a change anytime in the future.

Water John

I generally leave the lead plugged in to the wall as mostly I'm driving locally. If I am driving further I take it with me.

Black_Knight

Timed myself at Lidl. From sitting in the car to sitting back in the car again, to grab my phone and stop the recording, was 30 seconds. I started the charge as I was walking into Lidl.

Probably takes longer at home since I've about 5 metres between car and charge point, and it's untethered. If/when my rolec explodes, or whatever they do, I'll seriously consider tethered.

MJohnston

I’d like to see timings for people with a tethered cable to compare. From sitting in the parked car, to plugged in. And then from plugged in to sitting in the car (with the cable *neatly* stowed away again).

The only real difference I can see between the two is the time it takes to grab/return the untethered cable from the frunk or boot.

unkel

MJohnston wrote: »

with the cable *neatly* stowed away again

That's how I cheat

Cable is fecked into the bush right beside the charge port on my car :eek:

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

That's how I cheat

Cable is fecked into the bush right beside the charge port on my car :eek:

Well for a fair comparison then, untethered user need only chuck the cable into the nearest open space inside the car

eagerv

The tethered cable certainly works very quickly for us with 2 cars now.


Our normal parking positions are reversing up to side of house. So conveniently both cars have the charging doors together..( About a meter apart)



The missus leaves early with a pre warmed car and then switches the cable into mine if I need a charge or pre heat. I start heating before I leave on app. Takes her about 10 seconds or less (You don't have to get into the VW, just push open the charging door.)



Works well, just requires a bit of communication:).

the_amazing_raisin

Time to start an argument

https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/07/teslas-lfp-cells-dont-hold-up-well-in-the-cold/

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

If I showed you my setup, I would feel like cheating. There literally is 50cm distance (or 1 second time) between the charge port of my car and the location of the connector (in the bushes)



You must love depreciation :eek: Would you not have brought a nearly new one in from the UK? BMW PHEV over there are dirt cheap.

The 45e is a special phev along with the GLE 350DE mercedes with a much larger battery than normal phevs. I think the 45e has a 24kWh and the 350de a 30kWh (and 60kW CCS).
Both are out less than 12 months and as such wouldnt be many examples for sale with depreciation.


The x5 40e is not comparable, it has a puny 2 liter 4 cylinder and only 9kWh battery.

unkel wrote: »

A heat pump in Ireland is a load of nonsense. I said that when I had one in Ioniq. In a car with a tiny battery like Ioniq or your PHEV it will make a noticeable distance in range alright but in an EV with a decent size battery it makes no difference

As you know, Ireland has the perfect temp range where a heat pump makes sense.

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Time to start an argument

https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/07/teslas-lfp-cells-dont-hold-up-well-in-the-cold/

There's no argument. LFP is inferior to LI-Ion in every way, and I wouldnt buy a car with them (or a car made in china for that matter)

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

There's no argument. LFP is inferior to LI-Ion in every way

But it's cheaper. For Elon, cheaper = more profit = inflated share price = Mars .