Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin · 01-01-2021 10:08pm

McGiver wrote: »

No penalties. But you'll have to pay Irish VAT. And the biggest issue is the certificate of conformance, good luck with that.

Might as well buy new in the UK in that case, I believe a dealership doesn't need to charge VAT of they provide proof of export, so at least you won't get hit with double vat payments

I'm guessing with a used car the original vat payment can't be reclaimed if the car is exported

Buying used from northern ireland is probably the only path that makes sense since they're in the EU vat zone, I could see a few importers setting up shop there to bring in UK cars via NI

the_amazing_raisin · 01-01-2021 10:13pm

Old diesel wrote: »

I mean re certificate of conformity.

UK has an EU trade deal now as well

Ah I get you, not sure on that front

I'm guessing only professional importers are bringing in cars from Japan, unless someone really wants to drive a car back across Asia and Europe (it'd be one hell of a road trip)

Given that's the case I assume they have the knowledge and resources to get the CoC and factor that into the price

markpb · 01-01-2021 10:43pm

Laviski wrote: »

What is your complaint exactly??? As other have stated, provided they move on after 45 min there is nothing to see here... So why you complain?

A quick glance at the eCars map shows apparent decent coverage. What it doesn’t show is that almost all of those are single points of failure when it comes to actually making a journey. All it takes is one car getting there just ahead of you and now your trip is at least 45 minutes longer. Two cars ahead of you and you’re adding in two hours. There’s a reason why Ionity and Tesla and every petrol station in the entire world build multi-stall sites.

Black_Knight · 01-01-2021 10:47pm

Laviski wrote: »

What is your complaint exactly??? As other have stated, provided they move on after 45 min there is nothing to see here... So why you complain?

Gripe that will continue to get worse I think is ice cars just parking in the space. Along with electric vehicles parked up and not charging cause the space is convenient. That should be putting your panties in a twist.

Already had a number of recent incidents where cars were parked and not charging, these were ccs too.

Was I complaining? I'll get my "panties in a twist" when I experience iceing or eving, but as yet that's never happened when I needed to charge.

Merely stating that because of ecars single unit per site I could of been waiting on that leaf and possibly the i3 if they wanted to switch to DC charging. Instead because I've CCS I went to ionity. My 20 minute stop could of been an hour if I was in a leaf.

Black_Knight · 01-01-2021 10:49pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Surely the i3 could use the CCS at Ionity as well?

Didn't know they had 11kW AC charging. Maybe that was enough for them given the price difference between ionity and ecars. Without knowing about chargepoint or maingau you'd be comparing 33c Vs 79c per kWh. When you can't benefit from the 175kW on tap at ionity is a hard sell.

I didn't care. It cost me €6+ Vs €3+ to get home after the holidays. I'll get over it.

the_amazing_raisin · 01-01-2021 10:53pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Was I complaining? I'll get my "panties in a twist" when I experience iceing or eving, but as yet that's never happened when I needed to charge.

Merely stating that because of ecars single unit per site I could of been waiting on that leaf and possibly the i3 if they wanted to switch to DC charging. Instead because I've CCS I went to ionity. My 20 minute stop could of been an hour if I was in a leaf.

Nothing beats redundancy

However, it does seem the Ionity chargers in Ireland are a bit prone to failures, seen a few people complaining about the chargers waiting for power

I've been checking on the city north Ionity and noticed that there always seems to be 1 of 2 (not 4, letting the side down Ionity) chargers out of action

It feels a bit like the Ionity chargers don't have the best grid connection, almost as if the company which controls those connections was also running a competing charging network...

the_amazing_raisin · 01-01-2021 11:00pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Didn't know they had 11kW AC charging. Maybe that was enough for them given the price difference between ionity and ecars. Without knowing about chargepoint or maingau you'd be comparing 33c Vs 79c per kWh. When you can't benefit from the 175kW on tap at ionity is a hard sell.

I didn't care. It cost me €6+ Vs €3+ to get home after the holidays. I'll get over it.

This is where the whole Ionity is expensive falls apart when it's still around the same price as coffee and a donut from the shop

I feel like we should modify "buy cheap, buy twice" for EV charging

"Charge cheap, wait twice as long"

Dohvolle · 02-01-2021 12:02am

McGiver wrote: »

Yep, CoC will be the biggest issue making imports very difficult (or costly i.e. custom agent will need to be paid to do the paperwork).

With regards to the Vat - would it be possible to buy the car VAT free in the UK? And then pay the Irish Vat to the revenue?

Now that the UK is not part of the EU they won't be charging what we call VAT. They may call it a sales tax of some sort, but that's up to them. It won't be VAT.
But VAT will be charged at the point of entry to the EU for all goods from a 3rd Country.(i.e, the UK)
You are going to pay VAT on arrival here to Revenue.ie

liamog · 02-01-2021 12:12am

Dohvolle wrote: »

Now that the UK is not part of the EU they won't be charging what we call VAT. They may call it a sales tax of some sort, but that's up to them. It won't be VAT.
But VAT will be charged at the point of entry to the EU for all goods from a 3rd Country.(i.e, the UK)
You are going to pay VAT on arrival here to Revenue.ie

VAT isn't an uniquely EU thing it's common across much of world. As far as I'm aware the UK hasn't indicated a desire to move from a VAT system to a final sales system (sales tax)

Black_Knight · 02-01-2021 8:32am

cruisey1987 wrote: »

This is where the whole Ionity is expensive falls apart when it's still around the same price as coffee and a donut from the shop

I feel like we should modify "buy cheap, buy twice" for EV charging

"Charge cheap, wait twice as long"

And here I bought teas and coffees with pastries while I charged. A Mad man so I am

vicM · 02-01-2021 10:04am

McGiver wrote: »

No penalties. But you'll have to pay Irish VAT. And the biggest issue is the certificate of conformance, good luck with that.

Aren't most cars sourced in the UK EU made cars?

Silent Running · 02-01-2021 10:14am

The certificate of conformance thing is a bit of a red herring for cars registered in the EU.

I had a problem registering a VW Multivan Highline that I imported to Spain from Germany. There had never been one registered in Spain, so they were all confused, even though it was a normal VW T4 albeit a high trim level.

I made contact with VW in Germany and they posted a certificate of conformity for the van. The Spanish ITV (NCT) centre boss looked at it and grunted. The registration was then issued.

Cars built outside the EU might be a bit more difficult, but there would be a cert of conformance available for any car sold in the EU, including Tesla.

the_amazing_raisin · 02-01-2021 11:23am

vicM wrote: »

Aren't most cars sourced in the UK EU made cars?

Not necessarily, Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have factories in the UK

The VAT issues are around used cars being imported into Ireland. A new car built in the UK and then exported won't have to pay VAT in the UK because it was never sold in the UK

I believe a car dealership can remove the VAT on a new car if they provide proof of export. You'll still be paying VAT in Ireland, but you wouldn't be double charged

However for a used car, there isn't any VAT component of the price in the UK, and you'll be charged VAT on the purchase price in Ireland. So you're effectively being double taxed on a used car

vicM · 02-01-2021 11:27am

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Not necessarily, Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have factories in the UK

The VAT issues are around used cars being imported into Ireland. A new car built in the UK and then exported won't have to pay VAT in the UK because it was never sold in the UK

I believe a car dealership can remove the VAT on a new car if they provide proof of export. You'll still be paying VAT in Ireland, but you wouldn't be double charged

However for a used car, there isn't any VAT component of the price in the UK, and you'll be charged VAT on the purchase price in Ireland. So you're effectively being double taxed on a used car

Isn't that for used cars less than 6 months old/ 6000 kms? Or is that now changed as of yesterday?

Mean the VAT thing..

the_amazing_raisin · 02-01-2021 11:47am

vicM wrote: »

Isn't that for used cars less than 6 months old/ 6000 kms? Or is that now changed as of yesterday?

Mean the VAT thing..

Well basically a car less than 6 months old or less than 6000km is classed as new by revenue

I feel like the VAT thing in the UK might be a bit of a hard sell to the dealership, you're basically asking them not to pay tax, which would quite rightly make them nervous

However if it does work out then I think buying a new car in the UK might suddenly become more economical. Cars are generally cheaper in the UK and even after VRT and VAT is paid there could be some savings to be had

Used car imports are most likely dead unfortunately. The only way workable path is via Northern Ireland, you'd need to import the car new to NI, drive it until it's a used car, then sell it. Probably only viable for a dealership or import company to do that

Dohvolle · 02-01-2021 12:15pm

liamog wrote: »

VAT isn't an uniquely EU thing it's common across much of world. As far as I'm aware the UK hasn't indicated a desire to move from a VAT system to a final sales system (sales tax)

Yes but the EU VAT rules will no longer apply to the UK. If you pay VAT there, you'll have to pay it on point of entry to EU also.
Here is HMRC's guidance for UK traders.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

liamog · 02-01-2021 7:41pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Yes but the EU VAT rules will no longer apply to the UK. If you pay VAT there, you'll have to pay it on point of entry to EU also.
Here is HMRC's guidance for UK traders.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

From an importing used EVs point of view, you will still be able to do so without paying UK VAT long as the UK car is what's called VAT Qualifying, it's definitely a massive reduction in the number of used cars available to us.

graememk · 03-01-2021 9:42am

liamog wrote: »

From an importing used EVs point of view, you will still be able to do so without paying UK VAT long as the UK car is what's called VAT Qualifying, it's definitely a massive reduction in the number of used cars available to us.

We've run across the vat qualifing thing before on the business side of things in ireland.

Buying new , not a problem, but say if we were to buy a second hand piece of machinery, and the owner before us wasn't VAT registered, then then VAT can't be claimed back from that purchase.

So for cars, unless it was originally owned by a business, can't claim the vat back off it.

JohnC. · 05-01-2021 4:23pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/05/electric-cars-record-market-share-norway

54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020 were BEV. It increased through the year, hitting a high of just about 67% in December. Biggest seller was the E-Tron, beating Model 3 into second.

ELM327 · 05-01-2021 4:36pm

I saw that mentioned on Kris Rifa's channel. ETron selling really well up there. The shorter range is made up for by the great quattro system for the Norway winter, and the great norwegian charging infrastructure - they have widespread HPC coverage.

AndyBoBandy · 05-01-2021 5:38pm

ELM327 wrote: »

the great norwegian charging infrastructure - they have widespread HPC coverage.

I bet they have sites up there with more HPC's than we have on the entire island of Ireland......

We have what, 30 Tesla units (32 if you include the 2 at Birdhill that are not in use), 14? Ionity units, and 3/4 ESB HyperLoops?

ELM327 · 05-01-2021 5:41pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I bet they have sites up there with more HPC's than we have on the entire island of Ireland......

We have what, 30 Tesla units, 14? Ionity units, and 3/4 ESB HyperLoops?

Nebennes has more Tesla stalls (44) than we have Tesla and Ionity combined.

The "ecars HPC", two of which are software limited to 50kW still

AndyBoBandy · 05-01-2021 5:47pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The "ecars HPC", two of which are software limited to 50kW still

They'll unlock it to 100kW when they get another cheque for €10m

:D:D

KCross · 13-01-2021 5:49pm

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-group-strengthens-market-position-in-2020-and-hits-the-ground-running-in-e-offensive-6752

Some highlights...
Overall sales down 15% in 2020 due to Covid but BEV sales are up 200+% at 231,600 and 190,500 PHEVs (+175 per-cent).

For VW brand...

"In Western Europe, the share of electric vehicles therefore surged to 10.5 percent of overall deliveries (2019: 1.9 percent)"

10% is a healthy figure considering where they were at in 2019 and considering Covid in 2020. Imagine where it will go over the next 5 years when ID.4 comes on stream and Covid goes away!

The ID.3 and eTron numbers were strong.
– Volkswagen ID.3 56,500 units
– Audi e-tron 47,300 units

JohnC. · 13-01-2021 8:56pm

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

AndyBoBandy · 13-01-2021 8:58pm

JohnC. wrote: »

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

Some Applegreen motorway services have a free to use 50kW DC charger at them, like at Birdhill, where that’s 5 50kW units I believe.

Mullinavat would be a good location for a fast charger.

MJohnston · 13-01-2021 9:47pm

JohnC. wrote: »

I've never been to an Applegreen motorway services, so do they generally have charging? Maybe a particular provider? They've apparently started work on a service area in Mullinavat near the southern end of the M9.

M1 has four charging stations at Applegreen locations, and there’s at least one on the M11.

the_amazing_raisin · 13-01-2021 9:51pm

MJohnston wrote: »

M1 has four charging stations at Applegreen locations, and there’s at least one on the M11.

I thought you meant 4 per site and I was about to start jumping for joy, but then realised there are 4 Applegreen service stations, 1 charger per site

Thank you ESB

the_amazing_raisin · 13-01-2021 9:53pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Some Applegreen motorway services have a free to use 50kW DC charger at them, like at Birdhill, where that’s 5 50kW units I believe.

Mullinavat would be a good location for a fast charger.

Just checked plugshare, 2x 50kW tritium units with CCS and Chademo

Still miles ahead of an ESB site, having luxuries like a backup charger in case one is broken. Noticed in the comments that apparently one of the CCS plugs was kaput and the poster just moved to the other charger

If that was an ESB site they'd have been stuck

MJohnston · 13-01-2021 9:53pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I thought you meant 4 per site and I was about to start jumping for joy, but then realised there are 4 Applegreen service stations, 1 charger per site

Thank you ESB

Well of course two of the M1 stations also have about 10 Superchargers EACH that I've never once seen being used.

Random EV thoughts.....

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