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Random EV thoughts.....

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    #2732
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,547 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Well of course two of the M1 stations also have about 10 Superchargers EACH that I've never once seen being used.

    Those Tesla boys, do be in and out in a flash, and if you blink you'll miss them... ;):D:rolleyes:


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    #2733
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,763 ✭✭✭zg3409


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    If that was an ESB site they'd have been stuck

    A few ESB sites now have 2 x 44kW+ chargers. Kells has 2 co located (one 150kW) and another 44kW nearby.

    They have plans for more 2 44kW+ sites, some with 150kW chargers.
    I always assume sites will be busy/broken/blocked and a fill up with at least enough range to reach another site. I also check recent history on plugshare and zapmap and Facebook comments and even pick a route with better coverage even if a bit longer. I look at real time data on route and fly past a charger if its recently started a charge assuming I will need to queue. Its far from ideal but reduces anxiety if you know you are very unlikely to run out of power or queue unnecessarily.


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    #2734
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I always assume sites will be busy/broken/blocked and a fill up with at least enough range to reach another site. I also check recent history on plugshare and zapmap and Facebook comments and even pick a route with better coverage even if a bit longer. I look at real time data on route and fly past a charger if its recently started a charge assuming I will need to queue. Its far from ideal but reduces anxiety if you know you are very unlikely to run out of power or queue unnecessarily.

    The bit in bold is candidate for understatement of the year!


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    #2735
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,503 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
    This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/


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    #2736
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Water John wrote: »
    I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
    This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/
    is it self charging?


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    #2737
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Water John wrote: »
    I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed.

    Last year I read it was predicted in 2025.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33435923/toyota-solid-state-battery-2025/

    Now they're saying the early 2020s, which could be 2023/24.
    It'll probably be a prototype & meaningless for many years.

    I bet Elon is hoping that anyway - didn't he just announce tabless 4680 cylindrical lithium ion batteries, which he's hoping to be mass producing, in the billions, in the next 3 years? Same old tech for Tesla then, tweaked.


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    #2738
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    is it self charging?

    Only if you start at the top of a hill, or put petrol in it :pac:.


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    #2739
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Water John wrote: »
    I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed. It has 2.5 times the density of Li-ion and can be recharged from 0- 100% in 10 minutes. Anybody have any info on this?
    This article turned up in an agri forum I follow:

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-toyotas-latest-battery-announcement-change-tractors-forever/

    Not at the proto type stage yet, that is expected in teased for in 2021.

    Be careful, Toyota bad


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    #2740
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,512 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    Not at the proto type stage yet, that is expected in teased for in 2021.

    Be careful, Toyota bad


    Do you remember the days when teasers were for movies and companies didn't put out BS 'scientific' articles to make it seem like they had some big advancement just around the corner?


    We didn't know how easy we had it...

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2741
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,547 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    0 to 100% in 10 minutes......





    ...... because it’s only 5kWh.....


    And so do this you need to be driving at 150km/h on the ICE engine...



    539908.jpeg


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    #2742
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Water John wrote: »
    I see that Toyota announced, (which I missed) that they have a Solid State Battery (SSB) almost developed.

    Apparently, VW are ahead of the posse with regard to solid state......

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/8/22158573/quantumscape-solid-state-battery-ev-range-charge-vw

    I really don't know who to believe these days - I'll stick with Elon, he seems clued in, with cars making farting sounds etc. :D.


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    #2743
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Kramer wrote: »
    Apparently, VW are ahead of the posse with regard to solid state......

    QuantumScape are an interesting one to watch, they are around ten years old and have a non exclusive arrangement with VW. Their recent results covered lithium meal a single layer pouch cell packaged to dimensions that would fit automotive uses, they showed a retained capacity of 80% after 800 cycles at 30°C with a charge rate of 1C. The big challenge for them now will be to figure out how to build the cells at a commercial scale.


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    #2744
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,512 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    liamog wrote: »
    QuantumScape are an interesting one to watch, they are around ten years old and have a non exclusive arrangement with VW. Their recent results covered lithium meal a single layer pouch cell packaged to dimensions that would fit automotive uses, they showed a retained capacity of 80% after 800 cycles at 30°C with a charge rate of 1C. The big challenge for them now will be to figure out how to build the cells at a commercial scale.

    Hopefully it works out, until I see a car being sold with solid state batteries I'm not gonna have much faith in timelines

    If I remember correctly VW own a chunk of Northvolt, they might be gearing up to bring battery manufacturing in house if the Quantum Scape venture pans out

    The laws of mass production being what they are, I imagine those batteries will be quite expensive at first. So they'll probably only appear in the top end vehicles, Porsches and Audi's and will eventually filter down to the low end cars

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2745
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Jizique


    liamog wrote: »
    QuantumScape are an interesting one to watch, they are around ten years old and have a non exclusive arrangement with VW. Their recent results covered lithium meal a single layer pouch cell packaged to dimensions that would fit automotive uses, they showed a retained capacity of 80% after 800 cycles at 30°C with a charge rate of 1C. The big challenge for them now will be to figure out how to build the cells at a commercial scale.

    GAC saying they have developed a battery using graphene that charges to 80% in 8 mins and offers 1,000km - working on it since 2014.
    More details later this month and launch Q4 2021


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    #2746
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Jizique wrote: »
    GAC saying they have developed a battery using graphene that charges to 80% in 8 mins and offers 1,000km - working on it since 2014.
    More details later this month and launch Q4 2021
    From where?
    What plug gives even 25% of the power that needs?
    No point building an EV that charges at 600kW or something, as these chargers do not exist.


    Tesla could build a v4 supercharger setup or something but other OEMs havent a hope


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    #2747
    IrishHomer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭IrishHomer


    Sky News have a story claiming a new battery invented to charge in five minutes

    http://news.sky.com/story/new-electric-car-battery-can-be-fully-charged-in-five-minutes-12192253


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    #2748
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,547 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    IrishHomer wrote: »
    http://news.sky.com/story/new-electric-car-battery-can-be-fully-charged-in-five-minutes-12192253
    The breakthrough could address a significant concern for electric car drivers - the fear of running out of power during a journey, marooning the vehicle for a couple of hours while it charges.

    Thats roughly about the same as the fear I had when driving my diesel car, and at about the same levels...


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    #2749
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,125 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    As like all "battery breakthroughs"... dont believe it until you see it in a real production car.


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    #2750
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    IrishHomer wrote: »
    Sky News have a story claiming a new battery invented to charge in five minutes

    http://news.sky.com/story/new-electric-car-battery-can-be-fully-charged-in-five-minutes-12192253
    Again, from where?


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    #2751
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,512 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    IrishHomer wrote: »
    Sky News have a story claiming a new battery invented to charge in five minutes

    http://news.sky.com/story/new-electric-car-battery-can-be-fully-charged-in-five-minutes-12192253


    Ha, they were moaning about the UK charging network


    They should come to Ireland and take a look at our "network" :rolleyes:

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2752
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,512 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    KCross wrote: »
    As like all "battery breakthroughs"... dont believe it until you see it in a real production car.


    True, but it's getting closer. We're going from lab prototypes that barely function to something that can be manufactured in a production line

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2753
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Again, from where?

    The Guardian article gives better, though still not enough, detail:
    The batteries can be fully charged in five minutes but this would require much higher-powered chargers than used today. Using available charging infrastructure, StoreDot is aiming to deliver 100 miles of charge to a car battery in five minutes in 2025.


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    #2754
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    100 miles / 160km in 5 minutes in 2025?
    You can nearly do that today in a model 3 at a V3 supercharger.


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    #2755
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    ELM327 wrote: »
    From where?
    What plug gives even 25% of the power that needs?
    No point building an EV that charges at 600kW or something, as these chargers do not exist.


    Tesla could build a v4 supercharger setup or something but other OEMs havent a hope

    They’re not talking about launching it today. Chargers get rolled out. Was it the Taycan that even launched with no charger able to provide what it can take at peak? It’s for the future. A while ago there we no chargers for any cars. Complaining that there’s no charger for it right now misses the point.


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    #2756
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,125 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    True, but it's getting closer. We're going from lab prototypes that barely function to something that can be manufactured in a production line

    Maybe.
    There is a big leap though to get from cell production to convincing a large OEM to buy your cells.... whats the reliability like, longevity, does it scale in production, cost etc.

    And they are talking about it being ready in 5 years time! :pac: .... we've heard it all before! My guess is its kite flying for another round of funding!


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    #2757
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    ELM327 wrote: »
    100 miles / 160km in 5 minutes in 2025?
    You can nearly do that today in a model 3 at a V3 supercharger.

    I know its a nice figure and gets it into simple terms, Putting charging rate in distance/time is so variable.

    If your car does 20kWh/100km - to get 160 km of range in 5 minutes, is 384kW
    16km/100km - you only need 307kW

    As ELM said, they arent far off the mark now. The porsche taycan can peak at 270, but im sure getting it down to 20kwh/100km might be tricky!


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    #2758
    pdpmur
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭pdpmur


    graememk wrote: »
    As ELM said, they arent far off the mark now. The porsche taycan can peak at 270, but im sure getting it down to 20kwh/100km might be tricky!

    .. and as for the lumpen masses, Hyundai has recently released a teaser about its 2021 Ioniq 5 that also boasts of 100km in range gained in 5 minutes of charging...
    https://www.hyundai.com/worldwide/en/ioniq/ioniq5


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    #2759
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,512 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    pdpmur wrote: »
    .. and as for the lumpen masses, Hyundai has recently released a teaser about its 2021 Ioniq 5 that also boasts of 100km in range gained in 5 minutes of charging...
    https://www.hyundai.com/worldwide/en/ioniq/ioniq5


    I like the camping videos, 3kW of power is enough for an electric cooker and maybe a small fridge, plus some lights


    That's more than a lot of campsites will give you

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #2760
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Thread for the car here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058146365


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    #2761
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,503 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Here is an interesting video on the Model 3 motor. It's a bit tecky and suited to physics nerds. The Prius uses a similar design.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUb7Zy5Oio


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