Random EV thoughts.....

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

From my cold dead hands will they pull my private car ownership.

The way the world is going, that could become a reasonable possibility in the near future .

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

The way the world is going, that could become a reasonable possibility in the near future .

In reality, more and more don't own the cars they drive these days, company cars, cars on HP/PCP make up the vast majority of vehicles less than three years old.
Most cars under 6 years old are under some sort of finance, so technically not owned by the "keeper".

We own our cars, mine is 14 years old and the misuses is 16 years

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Yes, we are in a small minority here, McGiver, but I also believe there is no reason why a cheap city car in future should have a 60kWh battery. 20-30kwh is plenty, these cars rarely do big trips and if they do, they need to stop once or twice for 10 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable if that would make their car cost €15k instead of €20k

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

AndyBoBandy

liamog wrote: »

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

If the Honda-e wasn’t so expensive, they’d sell here by the ship load....

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

I agree with you, the space that small cars fill with approx 30kWh is a really good niche. It's the family hatchbacks where I think we're close but have one more round of battery increases before we see a wholesale move to primary car as an EV. It's a real shame as I think most people's needs are covered. If the winter range (and charging ability) of the ID.3 58kWh was its current summer range I'd be recommending them without caveats.

I feel like the E-Up and it's clones are the best balance of battery size and car size for a city car. For something like car sharing you have to account for the possibility that the car isn't going to get much of a charge between uses.

Something like the 35kWh battery the E-Up has meant it can get almost a full days use before needing to charge, especially given how efficient the car is

The battery is also big enough that you can take it on longer journeys if needed. It's far from ideal but if it's a once or twice a year occasion then it's fine.

So to me, that's where the bar is set for electric city cars. If they can concentrate on bringing the price down to the same as the petrol Up then it'll be perfect

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Are you basing it off Bjorn's Norweigan test at -25°C!

The ID cars have battery heating hardware included, its just the software isnt properly utilising it yet.

There is a software update coming that is supposed to address some battery heating stuff in the ID cars so we need to see how the tests fair out once thats applied... unfortunately we will be rolling into the summer by then so it could be next winter before we really find out.

Moreso the coldgating id4 after a 90km/hr run.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

Moreso the coldgating id4 after a 90km/hr run.

Ah you see the ID.4 is designed for the autobahn, you need to drive at 120 to avoid cold gating.

Slow drivers will be punished with slow charging

Hopefully I'll have mine in time for NEXT winter, so I'll keep ye posted on how the charging speed goes

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ah you see the ID.4 is designed for the autobahn, you need to drive at 120 to avoid cold gating.

Slow drivers will be punished with slow charging

Hopefully I'll have mine in time for NEXT winter, so I'll keep ye posted on how the charging speed goes

Sorry Garda! Battery is cold, just warming it up

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Sorry Garda! Battery is cold, just warming it up

.... so I can spend 5 minutes less at the charger..

innrain

I just had a glance at the sales figures for January. Quite disappointing overall but not surprising. I would think lots of people put of the idea of buying a new car now.
980 BEVs 3.89% market share compared with 891 units or 2.91% in 2020
Plugin hybrids have nearly doubled. Overall plug-in cars have 8.27% market share.
The best sold plug-in hybrid is KIA Xceed followed by its sister Niro but at the class type Jeep/SUV Prestige (H2) is the first.
Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

Look at the road tax and VRT versus the equivalent ICE version and you'll have your answer


I suspect there's some tax avoidance going on

AndyBoBandy

With more and more PHEV's becoming available, now would be a really good time to add the motor tax to the fuel used, and not the duration & car the tax should be valid with!!!

Someone in a 5 year old 320d might drive 60,000km in 1 year, and pay what? €190 in motor tax?
meanwhile me in my 2006 320d, who's driven it around 400km in the last 10 months, pays €710 motor tax for the same year!!

Find a fair equation to transfer it from the car to the fuel consumed so as to ensure no loss of revenue, and then let it go from there...

Then people can PHEV it up all they like!!

Busman Paddy Lasty

Fuel is already taxed heavily. They want VRT and motor tax on top. Revenue/Gov couldn't give a fiddlers about CO2 or local air quality.

kanuseeme

innrain wrote: »

I just had a glance at the sales figures for January. Quite disappointing overall but not surprising. I would think lots of people put of the idea of buying a new car now.
980 BEVs 3.89% market share compared with 891 units or 2.91% in 2020
Plugin hybrids have nearly doubled. Overall plug-in cars have 8.27% market share.
The best sold plug-in hybrid is KIA Xceed followed by its sister Niro but at the class type Jeep/SUV Prestige (H2) is the first.
Should this be worrying? Are this large SUVs going to be plugged in or is just a tax scheme?

Hard know what to do if you have a phev, charge it and your a miser saving 1 euro at the expensive of busy BEV drivers, don't charge it and its a scam.

Surprised myself to see BEVS (980) relegated to 5th position and diesel electric registrations (511) over half that of BEVs, 500 of the 511 are Kia sportage.

liamog

kanuseeme wrote: »

Hard know what to do if you have a phev, charge it and your a miser saving 1 euro at the expensive of busy BEV drivers, don't charge it and its a scam.

Surprised myself to see BEVS (980) relegated to 5th position and diesel electric registrations (511) over half that of BEVs, 500 of the 511 are Kia sportage.

Show's how hybridisation is basically becoming a default for any non plug in car. I've been saying for a while that people should ignore hybrid's in decision making. It's not to say they shouldn't buy one, merely that whether a given car is a hybrid over a pure ICE is effectively a pointless distinction.

As to PHEV's, plug them all the time so long as it's not on a rapid. I'm a charge fast or go home kind of guy

DermoMIO

Has there been any whispers on vat staying at 21% in the coming weeks ? I’m about to bite the bullet on a ID3 and one dealer is saying to me that vat increase will come into play if they have to order in one to my likings unfortunately.

DrPhilG

DermoMIO wrote: »

Has there been any whispers on vat staying at 21% in the coming weeks ? I’m about to bite the bullet on a ID3 and one dealer is saying to me that vat increase will come into play if they have to order in one to my likings unfortunately.

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

MJohnston

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

Maybe so but the dealer is factually correct. The government haven’t said anything about extending the VAT reduction, and it will automatically revert if they don’t

DermoMIO

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

Oh I agree but said I’d see if anyone around here might’ve heard something.

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

smellyoldboot

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

Hydrogen is pretty much the only real viable clean solution to ICE. The sooner the better because EVs will run out of growth space real soon when most people consider them briefly and realise they have nowhere to charge the things. PHEV is probably a more realistic , slightly cleaner stop gap technology until then.

https://electrek.co/2021/02/02/tesla-model-s-x-get-rid-lead-acid-12v-battery-moves-li-ion/

This is something that I'm happy about.

Porsche were selling non-lead acid batteries for their track cars at Porsche prices.
It is nice to see a Manufacturer finally getting rid of the lead acid battery.

Others will have to follow. It saves weight and space.

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/02/02/tesla-model-s-x-get-rid-lead-acid-12v-battery-moves-li-ion/

This is something that I'm happy about.

Porsche were selling non-lead acid batteries for their track cars at Porsche prices.
It is nice to see a Manufacturer finally getting rid of the lead acid battery.

Others will have to follow. It saves weight and space.

Nice to see Tesla copying Hyundai

zg3409

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no clue re VAT but that sounds like typical dealer pressure. Maybe not, but I'm a cynical bugger.

The standard rate of VAT has reduced from 23% to 21%, effective from 1 September 2020 to 28 February 2021. This was announced on 23 July 2020

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Looks like hydrogen might have gotten a lifeline

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/fraunhofer-develops-hydrogen-storage-paste/

Very early days yet, might not see this in production for 10 years and it's cost effectiveness is unknown at this point

Has all the ingredients to be very useful though, could be the boost that hydrogen needs to become viable

Those fool cells will stay where they are. "The next big thing".
Has been since the 70's


It doesnt make sense.

smellyoldboot

smellyoldboot wrote: »

EVs will run out of growth space real soon when most people consider them briefly and realise they have nowhere to charge the things.

What about at home?

smellyoldboot

BrownFinger wrote: »

What about at home?

What about apartment/terraced home dwellers? The suburban family home with driveway is far from the norm in most markets.

slave1

smellyoldboot wrote: »

What about apartment/terraced home dwellers? The suburban family home with driveway is far from the norm in most markets.

You're 100% correct here and this forum has been saying for years that EV ownership is not for this category of owner (with present public infrastructure penetration).

timsey tiger

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Hydrogen is pretty much the only real viable clean solution to ICE. The sooner the better because EVs will run out of growth space real soon when most people consider them briefly and realise they have nowhere to charge the things. PHEV is probably a more realistic , slightly cleaner stop gap technology until then.

I've charged mine twice at a public charger since I got it, just to see how it works and it is free for a year. Otherwise I plug it in at home and the lockdown hasn't changed my normal long travel days at all (essential).

The sooner that most people (with parking) realise that they will just plug in at night and never think about again, the sooner that we won't hear about this stuff again.

Even toyota are going all solid state battery, if they sort that they will forget hydrogen pretty quickly.

KCross

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Hydrogen is pretty much the only real viable clean solution to ICE. The sooner the better because EVs will run out of growth space real soon when most people consider them briefly and realise they have nowhere to charge the things. PHEV is probably a more realistic , slightly cleaner stop gap technology until then.

viable and clean are not really two words you can put next to hydrogen. Its not clean unless you can "make" it from excess renewable energy and in that scenario its a huge waste of energy to sink it into making hydrogen. i.e. the energy required to make hydrogen would be better spent just putting into a battery directly.

Its also not viable due to its inability to scale like petrol/diesel and BEV charging infrastructure can. Hydrogen stations are just too costly. Electricity is already "everywhere".

You could look into your crystal ball and just say these are technological issues that will be solved and it will all work out but in the meantime BEV tech is already on the ground and making significant inroads to the market with the biggest OEM's spending 10s of billions on it. BEV has now moved so far forward that hydrogen has missed the boat because, for cars, its decades away from making a breakthrough and scaling up. Most car OEM's have abandoned their hydrogen programs at this stage.

Hydrogen will likely have a place for commercial operations where it can be stored safely and used at scale (trucks, boats etc).

smellyoldboot wrote: »

What about apartment/terraced home dwellers? The suburban family home with driveway is far from the norm in most markets.

Thats a range issue. As BEV's get longer range (we've already quadrupled range in the last 10yrs) those people will charge up once a week while they go to the shops etc.

In the meantime it is a blocker for alot of those people to buy a BEV. No arguments there, BEV's are not yet for everyone.