Random EV thoughts.....

silverharp

who runs MG these days? I thought it was dead

Silent Running

silverharp wrote: »

who runs MG these days? I thought it was dead

The Chinese bought it, last I heard.

ELM327

silverharp wrote: »

who runs MG these days? I thought it was dead

It is dead.
The chinese bought the name and are selling rebadged chinese cars as MG.
The base car for this, the petrol one, got 3 stars in the NCAP test.

Markcheese

On the taxi thing , would the e-niro be the ideal taxi ,
A bit more space inside , and plenty of range ...
Although there is an opel / peugeot / citroen electric van available if you need something either wheelchair accessible or 7 / 8 seater ,

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

On the taxi thing , would the e-niro be the ideal taxi ,
A bit more space inside , and plenty of range ...
Although there is an opel / peugeot / citroen electric van available if you need something either wheelchair accessible or 7 / 8 seater ,

Nissan eNV200 is most likely the taxi to be looking for.
NV200 is wheelchair accessible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQ-cfNGc6k

zg3409

Markcheese wrote: »

On the taxi thing , would the e-niro be the ideal taxi ,
A bit more space inside , and plenty of range ...
Although there is an opel / peugeot / citroen electric van available if you need something either wheelchair accessible or 7 / 8 seater ,

I would have thought a niro would be better than a leaf as a taxi.
E.g. real 64kWh battery useable as opposed to biggest leaf which is less
Battery cooling, increases battery life and faster charging (although niro is not particularly fast)
Access to CCS chargers like ionity
11kW AC depending on model

The big downsides I see of EV taxi in general:
There is a massive problem now with taxis being commercially unviable during lockdown with big insurance and PCP or lease on existing car, and not being able to pay it
Often taxi drivers go 100km before they start work, and need 100km to get home.
You need to refuse the odd long trip like airport runs, or any trip when battery is low
Daily diesel costs are not that high (mate is a taxi driver) and offset by expensive fares and diesel costs can be claimed back (not sure if 100%)

Chargers are not in locations where taxis wait and typically they wait in a rank at say a dart station and have a radio or app for telephone bookings. The ranks are first in first out, and often they wait 30+ minutes. There would need to be say a 22kW AC for every spot, or a ticket/priority system, where they sit at charger, but customers are directed to them over those who arrive later.

If there are 3 taxis for every customer now and pubs arent going to be back to normal in 2021, nor airports, I would not be sinking any savings into lower fuel cost vehicle.

All this said if there was a bank of 150kW chargers at all taxi waiting areas it might make sense. New chargers at Dublin and Cork airport coming on line soon might make sense for those based at airports, particularly if airport queuing system takes into account charging. I would like to see cost benefit of fuel vs public 150kW charging mid shift, with home charging.

timsey tiger

ELM327 wrote: »

It is dead.
The chinese bought the name and are selling rebadged chinese cars as MG.
The base car for this, the petrol one, got 3 stars in the NCAP test.

I'm sure you know that the MG ZS EV got 5 stars, but for some reason you decided to keep it from the other posters who might not know this.

ELM327

timsey tiger wrote: »

I'm sure you know that the MG ZS EV got 5 stars, but for some reason you decided to keep it from the other posters who might not know this.

Yes but that was not what I said./
I said the "BASE CAR FOR THIS" got 3 stars, base meaning before conversion.


There was nothing inaccurate about what I said.

liamog

A lot of cars that were previously 5 star would now be classed as 3 star. It's pretty much impossible to get above a 3 star rating without an AEB and Lane Keeping system.

timsey tiger

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but that was not what I said./
I said the "BASE CAR FOR THIS" got 3 stars, base meaning before conversion.


There was nothing inaccurate about what I said.

I didn't say there was anything inaccurate in what you said, so I fail to see the reason for you bringing up this.

JohnC.

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but that was not what I said./
I said the "BASE CAR FOR THIS" got 3 stars, base meaning before conversion.


There was nothing inaccurate about what I said.

But how is it relevant? It's a different, non-EV car. The EV, which people are more likely to talk about on an EV forum, got 5 stars. But you decided to talk about something else because of a nonsensical bee in your bonnet. Even your precious "made in America" cars use Chinese parts, including safety parts, before you decide to say again that you don't drive a phone.

MJohnston

JohnC. wrote: »

But how is it relevant? It's a different, non-EV car. The EV, which people are more likely to talk about on an EV forum, got 5 stars. But you decided to talk about something else because of a nonsensical bee in your bonnet. Even your precious "made in America" cars use Chinese parts, including safety parts, before you decide to say again that you don't drive a phone.

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.  

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.

It's pronounced "Made in AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :pac:

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It's pronounced "Made in AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :pac:

I love american cars and have owned many of them here. It's an interest of mine.


But it's not that here, as in. it's not "made in america" that I want, so much as "Made in NA or EU, or Japan", for personal reasons. I respect that this is possibly irrational and seems to rumble some people the wrong way, but I will never drive a china made car.

MJohnston

Yeah I guess my point is that "Made in America" is an extremely different set of standards (and generally lower ones) than "Made in EU", to the point where "Made in America" is probably closer to "Made in China" from EU standards. But then if something is being legally, openly sold in the EU, it probably adheres and is checked against EU standards anyway :shrugs:

Markcheese

https://youtu.be/DFCjQjAirDI

It's called a zafira but it's just an electric opel vivaro passenger van ..
No idea how much it costs in Ireland though ..
( Well the cargo version with the smaller battery 50kw battery is about e 36000, ) I assume that's 12 or so grand dearer that the standard vivaro ..

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah I guess my point is that "Made in America" is an extremely different set of standards (and generally lower ones) than "Made in EU", to the point where "Made in America" is probably closer to "Made in China" from EU standards. But then if something is being legally, openly sold in the EU, it probably adheres and is checked against EU standards anyway :shrugs:

Yeah I don't get it either, I can't trust anything that was designed in imperial units

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I love american cars and have owned many of them here. It's an interest of mine.


But it's not that here, as in. it's not "made in america" that I want, so much as "Made in NA or EU, or Japan", for personal reasons. I respect that this is possibly irrational and seems to rumble some people the wrong way, but I will never drive a china made car.

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

That's their choice and whilst I dont agree with it, I woudlnt be spending time on the internet trying to convince them otherwise!

the_amazing_raisin

Article on RTE about used car imports from UK

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

Interesting bit there about how the UK government is basically not charging VAT on used cars being imported into NI. I wonder is there an opening there for traders to import a car into the UK, claim the UK VAT back, and then export to Ireland

Even with the import taxes and VAT, you could still get a car cheaper than Rip-off Ireland

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

That's their choice and whilst I dont agree with it, I woudlnt be spending time on the internet trying to convince them otherwise!

Yes, I agree, I was just making the point that there are reasons people don't want to buy from certain manufacturers/countries etc.


That's their choice.

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Article on RTE about used car imports from UK

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

Interesting bit there about how the UK government is basically not charging VAT on used cars being imported into NI. I wonder is there an opening there for traders to import a car into the UK, claim the UK VAT back, and then export to Ireland

Even with the import taxes and VAT, you could still get a car cheaper than Rip-off Ireland

Didn't realise they re introduced the margin thing on the VAT.

Interesting loophole, and if they can be exported then without vat. Then it's not getting hit with double the VAT. And maybe duty if it's not uk made.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

My father told me when he bought his first Datsun here in I think 1973 that a lot of his friends didn't approve. A few years later though it was all forgotten about when they became popular.


I personally would not buy a Chinese car, even if they were cheaper. Fortunately I have the choice.

silverharp

the Chinese are still running concentration camps, On a big ticket item like a car I certainly wouldnt buy one from a Chinese owned company

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

Didn't realise they re introduced the margin thing on the VAT.

Interesting loophole, and if they can be exported then without vat. Then it's not getting hit with double the VAT. And maybe duty if it's not uk made.

I was looking into this a bit, and you can avoid the double VAT if the car was previously owned by a company and had the VAT reclaimed already. I don't think you need to import via NI in this case

If the car was registered to a private individual however then you can't reclaim the VAT, that's the tricky part

I suppose you could always keep an eye out for dealership cars, they often seem to sell them after a year and will have fairly low mileage and be well maintained

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I was looking into this a bit, and you can avoid the double VAT if the car was previously owned by a company and had the VAT reclaimed already. I don't think you need to import via NI in this case

If the car was registered to a private individual however then you can't reclaim the VAT, that's the tricky part

I suppose you could always keep an eye out for dealership cars, they often seem to sell them after a year and will have fairly low mileage and be well maintained

Lease companies might be claiming the vat back too.

Only have to pay the vat on the lower value after the lease ends*

**Complete speculation

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

......


I personally would not buy a Chinese car, even if they were cheaper. Fortunately I have the choice.

silverharp wrote: »

the Chinese are still running concentration camps, On a big ticket item like a car I certainly wouldnt buy one from a Chinese owned company

Nothing wrong with some ethics and morals.
I try to minimise my Chinese made purchases and also wouldn't support the UAE in any form, be it holidaying or working there.
Westerners are complicit in lots of nasty sh1t.

MJohnston

Augeo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with some ethics and morals.
I try to minimise my Chinese made purchases and also wouldn't support the UAE in any form, be it holidaying or working there.
Westerners are complicit in lots of nasty sh1t.

This is literally impossible. You can avoid buying direct from China or UAE, or even buying products "Made in" those countries, but if you're buying American, for example, you can be certain lots of your purchase money is going to those countries directly and indirectly.

MJohnston

And, to be clear, I think it's a very laudable goal to avoid unethical products, I definitely try to do it myself as much as possible. But I'm just pointing out the difficulty of doing so when US affairs, in particular, have been so intertwined with fairly hideous state actors.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

And, to be clear, I think it's a very laudable goal to avoid unethical products, I definitely try to do it myself as much as possible. But I'm just pointing out the difficulty of doing so when US affairs, in particular, have been so intertwined with fairly hideous state actors.

I suppose there's also the questions of state behaviour vs individual/corporate behaviour. I didn't agree with a lot of what the previous US government did, but I don't believe that blame should be shared by everyone in the US (except the my pillow guy :pac:)



It's more clear cut in China because there is basically no private enterprise there, all large companies are essentially controlled by the state. So buying from Chinese companies is somewhat indirectly supporting the Chinese government


Having said all that, while I try to buy from ethical sources, it's pretty difficult since essentially all consumer electronics are made in China