Leaving Cert Student does Exam 3 Hours after Surgery

fergiesfolly

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/leaving-cert-student-had-to-sit-exam-three-hours-after-appendix-was-removed-934686.html

What way are we treating our children, when this sort of nonsense is forced upon them.
It's bad enough we get them to squash 2 years of study into a couple of hours exam time, but this is inhumane.
Hopefully it doesn't harm her future too much.

kneemos

Sounds like she was eager herself to get it done.
Must have been still tripping from the drugs.

biko

Doesn't sound like she was eager at all.

A Leaving Certificate student has described as "inhumane" having to sit an exam just hours after surgery.

18-year-old Amy Richards from Wexford has written to the Irish Times outlining her experience.

She said she took English Paper 1 just three hours after surgery to remove her appendix, after a request to sit the exam in July was refused.

Looks like she took it in her hospital room.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/sitting-leaving-cert-exam-hours-after-appendix-ruptured-inhumane-student-1.3945828

kneemos

biko wrote: »

Doesn't sound like she was eager at all.

Ah, didn't see that part.

Fairly harsh.

the beer revolu

kneemos wrote: »

Sounds like she was eager herself to get it done.
Must have been still tripping from the drugs.

Other option was to repeat. Pretty big deal.
A year is a long time to an 18 year old.

JMNolan

Absolute madness, what the fuck is wrong with this country that they couldn't let her sit the exam in July with everyone else who was sitting it in July?

branie2

Disgraceful! The Examinations Commission needs to change.

Berserker

JMNolan wrote: »

Absolute madness, what the fuck is wrong with this country that they couldn't let her sit the exam in July with everyone else who was sitting it in July?

Rules and regulations trump common sense in Ireland.

Amateur should not have mentioned the surgery at all. She should have found religion and then demanded exception on religious grounds. There was a story a couple of years back where some kids were kept under quarantine so they could sit the exam - which fell on their sabbath - a day later so they would not have to violate their religious convictions.

If we can except people on grounds of jewish religious fantasy - who really should have been failed for not showing up for the exam - then we should be able to except people with genuine medical issues.

razorblunt

There would surely be a backup paper anyway thats already prepared, in the event that something went awry. Why not use that as her paper at a later date?

riffmongous

Christ

"The exams were interrupted on numerous occasions so I could receive pain medication and have my drip changed.

“I was trying to write but all I could think about was getting sick. I had to end both exams early and ended up on the bathroom floor getting sick.”

You study for 5 years and then in the end they can't let you wait another month, ridiculous

Sandor Clegane

All this hardship on a sick child for a piece of paper that'll become worthless when she enters the real world. Sad.

Your Face

Stupid and dangerous to force this student into that situation.

However, she is tough as nails to do an exam 3 hours after surgery.

leitrim4life

JMNolan wrote: »

Absolute madness, what the fuck is wrong with this country that they couldn't let her sit the exam in July with everyone else who was sitting it in July?

Where do you draw the line? First you get a pass with a dead parent, now operation, next a sore throat. Kids are becoming too soft. They have only 1 exam from the day they are born til the day they turn 18, you can fail every exam in primary and go to secondary, you can fail every exam on junior cert and still sit the leaving, but if you fail the leaving the buck stops. Long may it remain.

kneemos

How was she even conscious three hours after an operation?

Balanadan

When she's an auld wan, she can tell young wans "In my day, we had to do our exams in hospital straight after operations".

Snow Garden

The appendix had burst too which made it a much longer and more complex operation.
It also meant she was on a high dose of antibiotics and painkillers.

Stupid by the Dept of Education not to have worthwhile options.
From all accounts that Dept is badly run and full of managers that do not want to be progressive.

Gimme A Pound

leitrim4life wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? First you get a pass with a dead parent, now operation, next a sore throat. Kids are becoming too soft. They have only 1 exam from the day they are born til the day they turn 18, you can fail every exam in primary and go to secondary, you can fail every exam on junior cert and still sit the leaving, but if you fail the leaving the buck stops. Long may it remain.

Yeah postponement due to appendix surgery definitely means being too soft and that hypothetical situation you mentioned which nobody would expect a postponement for.

I don't get this "Where do you draw the line?" thing either. Obviously when it's not serious.

Mrs OBumble

Stupid decision by the young woman to sit. Should have just had a "not sat" recorded",and done a PLC course of some sort, or just for a job.

branie2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Stupid decision by the young woman to sit. Should have just had a "not sat" recorded",and done a PLC course of some sort, or just for a job.

It wasn't her decision. she was obliged to do it.

Strumms

I’m not a medical person, but does it not seem a bit odd to anyone that a few hours after undergoing surgery in hospital, doctors give the go ahead for her to take a major state exam ? That to me is a head scratcher as would be the roll of the parents too as well as the exam people. If the photo wasn’t there I’m not believing it, but it is.

leitrim4life

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah postponement due to appendix surgery definitely means being too soft and that hypothetical situation you mentioned which nobody would expect a postponement for.

I don't get this "Where do you draw the line?" thing either. Obviously when it's not serious.

Who decides serious? Let's say its the doc who fills out the form to get you an exemption, you know how it works here in Ireland. Family doc are notorious for writing excuses. That's why you should do 7 subjects to insure if one day goes pot, you still hv a chance.the only excuse should be if you are dead.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Stupid decision by the young woman to sit. Should have just had a "not sat" recorded",and done a PLC course of some sort, or just for a job.

She's aiming to do medicine, a PLC isn't much use to her.

funk-you

I'm sorry but hold on a minute here...Forget about the Examinations Commission for a sec. What parent would allow that nonsense to happen? Shower of saps.

-Funk

story in the irish times predictably is a bit more blurry, once details are included.

firstly, the protocol for sitting 1st July is for bereavement only. case closed. you cant f/w protocol or you dont have a govt.

the quote, after a delayed diagnosis "when i was told at 7pm i had appendicitis, i didn't care, i just wanted to sit the exam"

what does this mean? was an option for deferral available at this stage and refused?

im sure that shes not the only student who took ill during this leaving cert

why are we hearing about her and why is it being framed only around the cycle of repeats that are explicitly for bereaved students?

i wonder if there is other repeat options (always was before) and for some reason they didnt like them? be an interesting thing to find out, except the story here is the outrage.

leitrim4life

leitrim4life wrote: »

Who decides serious? Let's say its the doc who fills out the form to get you an exemption, you know how it works here in Ireland. Family doc are notorious for writing excuses. That's why you should do 7 subjects to insure if one day goes pot, you still hv a chance.the only excuse should be if you are dead.

Don't you have to have certain core subjects done in order to pass the LC? I think it's at least Irish and Maths. If you skip those, you fail the cert.

riffmongous

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Stupid decision by the young woman to sit. Should have just had a "not sat" recorded",and done a PLC course of some sort, or just for a job.

Yep a girl aiming to do medicine should just settle for a PLC or stacking shelves

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

All this hardship on a sick child for a piece of paper that'll become worthless when she enters the real world. Sad.

It’s not worthless in college admissions.

I too am dubious about this, it doesn’t look like she applied in time to get the deferral and it does look like the DOE took time to send the paper and the invigilator to her hospital bed which is presumably what she did ask for.

Edit:

Actually the deferral is just for bereavement.

There’s probably a reason why calling in sick doesn’t automatically lead to a deferral. See if we can work it out.

leitrim4life

Candie wrote: »

Don't you have to have certain core subjects done in order to pass the LC? I think it's at least Irish and Maths. If you skip those, you fail the cert.

There is no "fail the LC" . It's a matric exam for 3rd level, there are exemptions for eng/irish and maths now.

JupiterKid

Utterly ridiculous, unfair and inhumane. That young woman should have been permitted to defer sitting her exams until July.

AudreyHepburn

No one should be made to feel that much pressure - the leaving cert is not the be all and end all and in most cases ends up being completely irrelevant to your life.

By all means study and try to do well but it’s not worth risking your life for.

Capt'n Midnight

Snow Garden wrote: »

The appendix had burst too which made it a much longer and more complex operation.

You missed the bit about became gangrenous just hours earlier. :eek:

leitrim4life

leitrim4life wrote: »

There is no "fail the LC" . It's a matric exam for 3rd level, there are exemptions for eng/irish and maths now.

Ah, I thought you had to pass certain subjects or you lost the lot. I didn't go to secondary school in Ireland so I'm not 100% on these things.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Ok. Let’s think about this. Do we pass a law or regulation that allows all sick students to defer.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No one should be made to feel that much pressure - the leaving cert is not the be all and end all and in most cases ends up being completely irrelevant to your life.

By all means study and try to do well but it’s not worth risking your life for.

She was aiming for medicine so not sitting it would have been a year out of her life. I guess she felt it was the be all and end all at the time, it would be hard to convince someone who's planned and worked for their future path that it's irrelevant.

I hope she did well, against the odds.

kneemos

Candie wrote: »

Ah, I thought you had to pass certain subjects or you lost the lot. I didn't go to secondary school in Ireland so I'm not 100% on these things.

It was six passes in my day. All about points now though regardless.

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

It was six passes in my day. All about points now though regardless.

Was there ever a time when six passes got you into medicine or veterinary medicine or pharmacy though? For certain courses you must have to have certain grades in relevant subjects I'm sure.

_blaaz

Candie wrote: »

Ah, I thought you had to pass certain subjects or you lost the lot. I didn't go to secondary school in Ireland so I'm not 100% on these things.

You are correct....english,irish and math were the core subjects when i done leaving cert

ILoveYourVibes

I often tell foreigners how draconian the Irish exam system is. In one way i think it builds character.

This is a bit much though.

lipso tokko

Candie wrote: »

She was aiming for medicine so not sitting it would have been a year out of her life.

she'll probably end up repeating anyway,

is_that_so

JMNolan wrote: »

Absolute madness, what the fuck is wrong with this country that they couldn't let her sit the exam in July with everyone else who was sitting it in July?

Not in the rules but it will be now. You'd think the DOE would have a special consideration clause they could use to address all these unusual things.

BeerWolf

I had it similar having to do my Leaving Cert almost 20 years ago. Lacerated my right arm badly due to an accident that required surgery, day later I was sitting for my leaving cert... albeit I had to use a laptop since I couldn't write.

Had to redo the leaving cert... time restraint was stacked well against me typing with just one hand...

hatrickpatrick

The heartless f*ck who made the call on this at the SEC should never be allowed to work in any arm of the public service again. People like this are most likely directly responsible for why almost every aspect of the Irish public service seems inherently designed to be non user friendly. Probably the same type of asshole who'd give you a fine in the library because your books went over the return deadline by a couple of minutes, while you were literally waiting in the queue to give them back. Pricks.

Between this and that utterly ridiculous re-check situation last year in which a very obvious arithmetic error on the part of the examiner nearly cost a woman her college place, because the re-checks weren't due to be issued until after the start of the first semester, I can see big changed coming down the line for how the leaving cert is handled. People seems to be finally getting really, really fed up of the "it's designed to be convenient for every stakeholder except the actual students sitting the exams" paradigm we've had for far, far too long.

LirW

Why is there only one single date in the whole year anyway?
I understand everyone should sit at the same time but there are always very genuine cases that cannot make this date.
When I did mine there was the June date for everyone. With a sufficient excuse you could move it to July. Then there's a mid September date for people that failed or people that couldn't do either June or July. And a January date for people that failed in Autumn.

Every bloody minimum wage job nowadays requires you to be flexible on short notice, why is it not possible to have an alternative date for people that have genuine excuses or failed.

Strumms

is_that_so wrote: »

Not in the rules but it will be now. You'd think the DOE would have a special consideration clause they could use to address all these unusual things.

Truth, all would be required would be for the student to attend or be attended by the appointed Department doctor for a conversation and a checkup

Capt'n Midnight

lipso tokko wrote: »

she'll probably end up repeating anyway,

I had to end both exams early and ended up on the bathroom floor getting sick.

lipso tokko

i saw that allright, but she was going for medicine, it wouldn't matter so much if she was only aiming for a pass in a few subjects, but for 600 points she was probably going to be repeating

Mrs OBumble

branie2 wrote: »

It wasn't her decision. she was obliged to do it.

Obliged by who, exactly?

If she didn't sit, the worse that would happen is that she got into college a year later, and a year more mature. Either she'd have learnt more stuff by then, or she'd have a year of work experience that her same-age peers don't have. Neither would be a disaster.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Obliged by who, exactly?

If she didn't sit, the worse that would happen is that she got into college a year later, and a year more mature. Either she'd have learnt more stuff by then, or she'd have a year of work experience that her same-age peers don't have. Neither would be a disaster.

Agreed, I’m inclined to be looking at the parents here, they have the ultimate say.

Gael23

Someone’s head in the department of education needs to be served on a plate

Gimme A Pound

leitrim4life wrote: »

Who decides serious? Let's say its the doc who fills out the form to get you an exemption, you know how it works here in Ireland. Family doc are notorious for writing excuses. That's why you should do 7 subjects to insure if one day goes pot, you still hv a chance.the only excuse should be if you are dead.

Ah we can be trusted to decide what's serious. We aren't stupid.

But in fairness people do just repeat. There isn't a system in place for those recovering from surgery, so people are getting kinda irate over something not existing anyway - my friend got meningitis at the time of her leaving cert, and she just repeated. Bit trashy by the Times.

I think there should be a system of exemptions for people who experience serious illnesses/unexpected hospitalisation (within reason) though. But yeah chill people with all the talk of heads rolling etc - they didn't do anything wrong.