Ryanair Pilot Contract Question

cliffordg90

Hi lads,


I'm just wondering if someone can clarify this for me.


Are Ryanair pilots still considered independent contractors or are they now offered employee contracts?

1123heavy

cliffordg90 wrote: »

Hi lads,


I'm just wondering if someone can clarify this for me.


Are Ryanair pilots still considered independent contractors or are they now offered employee contracts?

Employee contracts with the company

billie1b

cliffordg90 wrote: »

Hi lads,


I'm just wondering if someone can clarify this for me.


Are Ryanair pilots still considered independent contractors or are they now offered employee contracts?

The company have both types of pilots, ones who are employed directly by Ryanair are Ryanair employees, ones who are through the agency are contractor pilots.

1123heavy

billie1b wrote: »

The company have both types of pilots, ones who are employed directly by Ryanair are Ryanair employees, ones who are through the agency are contractor pilots.

At their last open day they said the vast majority now are directly employed. If you go in as a cadet you have no choice but to be directly employed, can't remember if it was base dependent or what but they said contracting wasn't available to all direct entry guys.

View Profile

Most FO's are on zero hour, (bogus) self employed contracts.
Take everything you hear from Ryanair with a pinch of salt.

Inquitus

View Profile wrote: »

Most FO's are on zero hour, (bogus) self employed contracts.
Take everything you hear from Ryanair with a pinch of salt.

What's the rough hourly rate that translates to? I read that regional American pilots at AA and other's regional airline companies can make as little as $20 an hour with the range being $20-$50 and the average around $40. Obv they are flying the small regional jets and not 737's, but be interested in the comparison.

California Dreamer

<500hr on type €39000 salary plus about 5000 flight pay.

>500hrs on type €53000 salary plus about 10000 flight pay.

Go in with a positive attitude and know you will do your 850/900 hours a year and FO's will get the command in 3-5 years.

1123heavy

California Dreamer wrote: »

<500hr on type €39000 salary plus about 5000 flight pay.

>500hrs on type €53000 salary plus about 10000 flight pay.

Go in with a positive attitude and know you will do your 850/900 hours a year and FO's will get the command in 3-5 years.

The figures they quoted were a lot higher than those, more like 60+ for cadets in the first year ... interesting

rivegauche

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/597527-joining-ryanair-24.html

A Ryanair HR staff member posts to that thread in that forum.

billie1b

California Dreamer wrote: »

<500hr on type €39000 salary plus about 5000 flight pay.

>500hrs on type €53000 salary plus about 10000 flight pay.

Go in with a positive attitude and know you will do your 850/900 hours a year and FO's will get the command in 3-5 years.

I’ll second what Mr.Dreamer has said

IngazZagni

1123heavy wrote: »

The figures they quoted were a lot higher than those, more like 60+ for cadets in the first year ... interesting

Yeah and they probably quoted a first officer contract from the highest paid base with all the extras and flying the legal maximum. In reality they shafted new guys with second officer contracts on massively reduced pay for the first year or so.

And they wonder why the pilots wanted unions to get involved...

View Profile

California Dreamer wrote:

Go in with a positive attitude and know you will do your 850/900 hours a year and FO's will get the command in 3-5 years.

Currently FOs are complaining that they are barely getting 60 hours per month and this is during the busy Summer period.

rivegauche

View Profile wrote: »

Currently FOs are complaining that they are barely getting 60 hours per month and this is during the busy Summer period.

We have only your word to go on here and if it is true would you prefer them to fire pilots like other 737 Max operators have done?
What would a shop steward do there? Drop the last hired pilots on a LIFO basis with little or no redundancy payment?
A Ryanair Recruiter on pprune said:
"1 - Cadets - Hiring 650+ over the next 12 months
2 - Non - Type Rated FO's - No hiring indefinitely
3 - Non - Type Rated Captains - No hiring indefinitely
4 - Rated FOs - some hiring
5 - Rated Captains - will be reviewed early 2020"

To me that seems like the hiring strategy of a company which is waiting expectantly for the spigot of 737 Maxes to be turned on and is actively moving pilots from one seat to the other where possible.

California Dreamer

View Profile wrote: »

Currently FOs are complaining that they are barely getting 60 hours per month and this is during the busy Summer period.

That is still 720 a year which is what most of the EI guys would be flying.

The public love to bash FR. The experienced crew love to bash FR.

The fact remains what other airline will give an early 20's FO the right seat of an almost new 738 to fly around Europe for a few years before they get their command?

The snowflake generation has infected the pilots. Nobody forced them to spend 100k plus to get qualified and these guys just want jobs when they qualify.

Would you rather sell your soul, work hard, make money, get your command and be based somewhere across europe flying to all sorts of destinations where you can perfect your skills as a pilot in a shiny new Boeing jet OR keep your morals and get that first job working the night mail flights out of crap airports in the UK working on a 30 year plus turboprop?

rivegauche

There were 3 youngsters deadheading on my Ryanair flight on Thursday amongst the rest of us great unwashed. Ryanair gives them a great opportunity to progress in the career years earlier than they otherwise would be able to do.

Lapmo_Dancer

A lot of rubbish being spouted. Aer Lingus, BA, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, even Virgin Atlantic recently plus all the other European ‘national airlines’ all hire low hour, early 20s candidates. As do other LCCs like easyJet, Wizzair, Vueling and all the regionals like Cityjet and Stobart.

View Profile

rivegauche wrote:

There were 3 youngsters deadheading on ....... Ryanair gives them a great opportunity to progress in the career years earlier than they otherwise would be able to do.

Ryanair couldn't give a sh1te about furthering the careers of young FO's.

They will take whatever pilots they can get their hands on in order to keep their planes flying.
Turnover of staff in the company is massive! So great that any rational management would be in panic mode but MOL & Co live in their fantasy land where everyone is replaceable and experience is irrelevant.

It's not good for a company to have this attitude, as hiring and training staff costs time and money.
And refusing to make the company a place worth staying is ruining the airline as management obsess about where to make another dollar profit.

View Profile

California Dreamer wrote:

That is still 720 a year which is what most of the EI guys would be flying.

Most airlines, including Aer Lingus, maximise their pilots hours per year. The days of sitting around doing 600 hours are gone.
(Unless you are a self employed pilot in which case it costs the airline nothing to have you sitting at home)

Tenger

California Dreamer wrote: »

.................
The fact remains what other airline will give an early 20's FO the right seat of an almost new 738 to fly around Europe for a few years before they get their command?.................

Aer Lingus, Vueling, Level and Easyjet give the same opportunity, albeit on A320s.

My last couple of flights on EI to the UK had children (to my middle aged eyes!!) in the right hand seat.

Inquitus

View Profile wrote: »

And refusing to make the company a place worth staying is ruining the airline as management obsess about where to make another dollar profit.

Safest airline in the world by some measures, more in air hours currently without a life lost than anyone else!

1123heavy

Inquitus wrote: »

Safest airline in the world by some measures, more in air hours currently without a life lost than anyone else!

I don't think he was saying they aren't safe, but rather from a pilot's perspective it isn't the utopia their recruitment paint it to be

California Dreamer

View Profile wrote: »

And refusing to make the company a place worth staying is ruining the airline as management obsess about where to make another dollar profit.

That also depends on who you to talk to.

It makes no difference whether its pilots or binmen, the will be those that like the job, conditions and are happy. There are those who will forever complain.

I am not so pro Ryanair that I have blinders on but the constant bashing over a company that has given thousands their first flying jobs is staggering. Its not even that bad here, go to PPrune to really see true resentment!!!! :eek:

The One Doctor

California Dreamer wrote: »

Would you rather sell your soul, work hard, make money, get your command and be based somewhere across europe flying to all sorts of destinations where you can perfect your skills as a pilot in a shiny new Boeing jet OR keep your morals and get that first job working the night mail flights out of crap airports in the UK working on a 30 year plus turboprop?

The turboprop would be a lot more of a challenge. No slapping in the AP at 400' and letting the aircraft fly itself...

California Dreamer

The One Doctor wrote: »

The turboprop would be a lot more of a challenge. No slapping in the AP at 400' and letting the aircraft fly itself...

Haha!! Very true, thats real flying. Master that and a Boeing/Airbus is a walk in the park!:D:D

View Profile

California Dreamer wrote:

It makes no difference whether its pilots or binmen, the will be those that like the job, conditions and are happy. There are those who will forever complain.

But does it not strike you as strange when experienced line training Captains, based at home and on a decent salary are resorting to switching companies to another airline where they face a demotion to First Officer and a reduction in pay by 60%?
That's how bad things have gotten in Ryanair! They are fed up with management.

rivegauche

If you look at the OPs posting history it is clear that he is willing to do whatever it takes to become a pilot and while Ryanair may or may not be his employer for the entirety of his career they will definitely get him the hours and exposure he needs. Please try to help the OP rather than using the thread as an excuse to pursue your vendetta against Ryanair.

California Dreamer

View Profile wrote: »

But does it not strike you as strange when experienced line training Captains, based at home and on a decent salary are resorting to switching companies to another airline where they face a demotion to First Officer and a reduction in pay by 60%?
That's how bad things have gotten in Ryanair! They are fed up with management.

Yeh I did hear of a Ryanair LTC that left to take an FO job in EI.

I suppose if after working for 1 company for 15-20 years the morale from your side could be in the toilet. But at the same token I have heard of 777 drivers leaving the ME3 to come back to Ryanair. The grass doesn't seem to be green anywhere these days.

Lapmo_Dancer

California Dreamer wrote: »

Yeh I did hear of a Ryanair LTC that left to take an FO job in EI.

That’s not surprising.

View Profile

rivegauche wrote:

If you look at the OPs posting history it is clear that he is willing to do whatever it takes to become a pilot and while Ryanair may or may not be his employer for the entirety of his career they will definitely get him the hours and exposure he needs. Please try to help the OP rather than using the thread as an excuse to pursue your vendetta against Ryanair.

Just making him aware of the internal issues which wouldn't be portrayed by Ryanair at one of their recruitment road shows.

And I completely agree, there are no perfect jobs out there. Ryanair has many plus sides. The sad part is, it could be the best job in the industry if only management were willing to treat their staff with the respect they deserve.

rivegauche

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-may-close-bases-and-says-it-has-a-surplus-of-300-pilots-1.3953002

Ryanair potentially has 300 more Pilots than it needs. Pilots at Ryanair had better cross their fingers and hope that the 737Max is allowed fly soon.

billie1b

rivegauche wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-may-close-bases-and-says-it-has-a-surplus-of-300-pilots-1.3953002

Ryanair potentially has 300 more Pilots than it needs. Pilots at Ryanair had better cross their fingers and hope that the 737Max is allowed fly soon.

Biggest bunch of crap, Ryanair have nowhere near 300 pilots sitting around, if anything they’re short a few hundred pilots still