AMD Navi Discussion

Mr Crispy

They don't need to match a $1500 card.

Hyzepher

There is a real difference between match Nvidia for performance and matching them in terms of sales.

As good as the 3080 and 3090 are, they represent a very small percentage of sales. The 3070 will be where the popular competition lies. If AMD release 3 cards and the highest matches 3080/Super levels, while providing 2 cards comparible to 2080ti levels at lower prices (€400-€600) then I believe they will have successfully eaten into Nvidia's market share.

If you can get a 2080ti level card for €400 then AMD will have changed the face of GPU performance. Drop in a card for €250 comparable to 2070 Super or 2080 and the amount of choice for gamers will be incedible. And AMD will have a successful launch

At those prices and will the expectation of the 3070 performance, I don't think Nvidia will have a good answer at that price point

Hyzepher

Hyzepher wrote: »

If you can get a 2080ti level card for €400

Nothing in Nvidia's offerings would stop me getting this, hypothetical, card.
If they come out with that card they will feast on sales.

Squidgy Black

Latest rumour is that the 6900 will be 16gb and the 6800 12gb.

Which would make sense if the rumours of a 20gb 3080 and 16gb 3070 are to be believed as Nvidia's answer to big Navi.

Wonda-Boy

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Latest rumour is that the 6900 will be 16gb and the 6800 12gb.

Which would make sense if the rumours of a 20gb 3080 and 16gb 3070 are to be believed as Nvidia's answer to big Navi.

Yeah but that is 16GB of GDDR6 not GDDR6x. I would rather have the much faster ram then more of the slower ram, GPU bottlenecks occur from lack of bandwidth not lack of ram iirc.

But either way I hope AMDs offerings are competitive.

Hyzepher

Two months ago the vast, vast, vast majority of gamers were using mid-tier, up to 8Gb DDR6, graphics cards on 1080 displays and each and every one of them would wet themselves if an affordable 2080ti, with 11gb DDR6, became available.

Now people are turning there noses up at the prospect of a 2080ti tier card with ONLY 10/12/16Gb DDR6 that now costs the same as their previous mid-tier card.

People need to try and understand what they need instead of comparing cards that are outside their needs.

Samuel T. Cogley

Hardware Unboxed put it quite well. It's fair enough to turn the textures down on a main stream card, but if you're buying a premium card you want all the bells and whistles including the high resolution texture packs where they may or may not exist.

Azza

Hyzepher wrote: »

Two months ago the vast, vast, vast majority of gamers were using mid-tier, up to 8Gb DDR6, graphics cards on 1080 displays and each and every one of them would wet themselves if an affordable 2080ti, with 11gb DDR6, became available.

Now people are turning there noses up at the prospect of a 2080ti tier card with ONLY 10/12/16Gb DDR6 that now costs the same as their previous mid-tier card.

People need to try and understand what they need instead of comparing cards that are outside their needs.

At the start of the current generation of consoles, there was a sudden leap in VRAM requirements which was driven by games being designed with the consoles memory architecture in mind. I remember having to lower texture settings in games on a GPU that was otherwise considerably more powerful that the console GPU's.

Next generation of consoles will have more VRAM to play with so that could again see an increase in VRAM requirements on PC.

8GB of VRAM should be fine at 1080P and most likely at 1440P but 4K may increasingly become an issue. Doom Eternal at 4K has already shown to inflict a noticeable performance hit on cards with 8GB VRAM compared to card with 10GB or more.

Also I think the generation before the 2080 series, gamers would of expected 2080Ti performance at 2080 prices as that's the performance boast they got from Maxwell to Pascal. Remember the 1070 pretty much matched the previous generations Ti/Titan series cards. Probably due to lack of competition NVIDIA created a whole new pricing tier.

Mucashinto

Hyzepher wrote: »

People need to try and understand what they need instead of comparing cards that are outside their needs.

Ray tracing (or Ray Treacy as I call it lololol :rolleyes:) has messed all of this up though. I don't know what I need. I stuck with my 1070 on a 144hz VRR 1080p monitor, despite a strong desire to upgrade, and planned to upgrade early into this gen. Now I have a 165hz 1440p monitor. No ray tracing and a 5700xt/equivalent at €400 would probably do me I think. And if I waited til the 6700xt even better. But with Nvidia I don't know what to do outside of hand them a load of cash and assume I'm covered. PITA honestly.

Looking at the picture above the xx60 is going to be the lowest model again. What the hell will this card be for? They're already positioning the 70 as the 1440p champ, and presumably this won't be a ray tracing champ, so that's €400 to get their budget offering that's good for...what?

The consoles better be lying their arse off. How are they bringing (any form of) ray tracing at their price when Nvidia are charging these excessive amounts - in both power and cost.

It's really gotten a lot more complicated since RTX tbh. The shine seems to be going off the 30 series a little as well as the excitement has died down. Could be a long way from this maturing with lots of big gains still to be made. Still a possibility that people rush to drop €800 on the 3080 and Nvidia offer something in 12 months for €600 that they claim will smash it imo.

Christ I hate Nvidia.

EDIT: Sorry, thought this was the Nvidia thread

wotzgoingon

I do not even know if I will upgrade as my 5700 XT is playing games great at 4k 60Hz for me. It's also a reference model so wouldn't have great resell value if I was to sell it.

Regarding above post and ray tracing with the consoles. It must do pretty good or the Sony and MS wouldn't say it was available and obviously that pushes over to the soon to be announced AMD cards.

bobbyy gee

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I do not even know if I will upgrade as my 5700 XT is playing games great at 4k 60Hz for me. It's also a reference model so wouldn't have great resell value if I was to sell it.

Regarding above post and ray tracing with the consoles. It must do pretty good or the Sony and MS wouldn't say it was available and obviously that pushes over to the soon to be announced AMD cards.

there will be a lack of supply of newer cards for year big companies get first choice ireland will be last on list u will probably have to import from uk
People have set up boys in America to buy out the cards

Samuel T. Cogley

Apparently another source has suggested 80CUs and a 256bit bus with 16GB RAM for the top AMD card. There looks like there is a 5700XT replacement incoming with 40CUs but news of anything in the middle is strangely absent.

It's been suggested that the 256bit bus is sufficient for big Navi but we'll have to wait and see.

Hyzepher

If AMD have even a half decent card and have stock available they will sneak a win on this generation at least initially

Mr Crispy

Frank thinks they'll have stock!

https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1309134647410991107?s=20

K.O.Kiki

Ray-tracing in DMC5 on PS5.

bobbyy gee

Navi

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-sienna-cichlid-confirmed-as-navi-21-navy-flounder-is-navi-22

bobbyy gee

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Navi

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-sienna-cichlid-confirmed-as-navi-21-navy-flounder-is-navi-22

Veey fishy

Samuel T. Cogley

Interesting post on Reddit.

BloodBath

Navi22 boost clocks as high as 2500Mhz. :eek:

No idea if that's accurate or just some theoretical max but if it is possible then they may well have a 3080 killer/contender in their hands.

It should be at least double the performance of a 5700xt which would destroy the 3080 for regular rendering without DLSS.

Inquitus

BloodBath wrote: »

Navi22 boost clocks as high as 2500Mhz. :eek:

No idea if that's accurate or just some theoretical max but if it is possible then they may well have a 3080 killer/contender in their hands.

It should be at least double the performance of a 5700xt which would destroy the 3080 for regular rendering without DLSS.

Given the scarcity of Nvidia 3000 series, most people will know the relative performance of both families of cards before purchase. Seems a high likelyhood that big Navi will be just as scarce as Nvidia's latest offerings as well mind. The 3080 issues for the AIB Nvidia cards will probably put people off until there is some clarity, seems Nvidia fécked up with the spec docs they provided to the AIB partners causing all this current drama as well!

Metric Tensor

Inquitus wrote: »

... current drama...

I see what you did there!!

Wonda-Boy

Well I wont be buying anything until this **** storm is rectified thats for sure.....

Samuel T. Cogley

Taken my 60Hz 34" off adverts. I think I'm gonna go with all the RT bells and whistles rather than high refresh.

Inquitus

Metric Tensor wrote: »

I see what you did there!!

Not sure how you are interpreting that, but I expect the drama to be temporary and resolved relatively quickly, they aren't gonna recall the cards, they may just have to calm people who bought them and don't get advertised boost speeds with some sort of incentive while they turn the boost down in the bios.

Samuel T. Cogley

Inquitus wrote: »

Not sure how you are interpreting that, but I expect the drama to be temporary and resolved relatively quickly, they aren't gonna recall the cards, they may just have to calm people who bought them and don't get advertised boost speeds with some sort of incentive while they turn the boost down in the bios.

I think you might have missed the joke :pac:

Wonda-Boy

Inquitus wrote: »

Not sure how you are interpreting that, but I expect the drama to be temporary and resolved relatively quickly, they aren't gonna recall the cards, they may just have to calm people who bought them and don't get advertised boost speeds with some sort of incentive while they turn the boost down in the bios.

As long as the cards are hitting the advertised base clock speeds there will be no RMAs I dont think...thats what you are buying, boost and overclock are not guarenteed.

Id say firmware updates or vbios flashes will all that will be offered, but manufactuers really should replace them for the price peeps are paying.

No way I would go with my original choice of Inno3d or KFA2 etc. MSI Trio or Asus Strix now for a 3080ti.

Traficante

Buy an Nvidia FE or an Asus Strix or TUF if you can get one and you will be fine. Early adopters always take a chance so with regard to a callback, no way imo, I would not touch a newly released AMD Navi either, everybody is still guessing as far as big navi goes.

Hyzepher

If AMD can't benefit from this ridiculous Nvidia launch then they never will

Simi

This really is the moment. If they could just edge out the 3080 in performance (excluding ray tracing and DLSS) and avoid driver issues at launch. People might actually consider an AMD card for their next upgrade.

In practical terms it wouldn't matter if they didn't have a viable 3080 competitor. 95% of people will be buying a lower tier card anyway and that's where the real competition is going to be.

But just that image of AMD's best being faster than Nvidia's might be enough to redeem them in the eyes of consumers.

It would be absolutely amazing to have competing products the whole way up the stack though. Top tier cards might actually go down instead of up in price over their lifecycle!

z0oT

Simi wrote: »

This really is the moment. If they could just edge out the 3080 in performance (excluding ray tracing and DLSS) and avoid driver issues at launch. People might actually consider an AMD card for their next upgrade.

In practical terms it wouldn't matter if they didn't have a viable 3080 competitor. 95% of people will be buying a lower tier card anyway and that's where the real competition is going to be.

But just that image of AMD's best being faster than Nvidia's might be enough to redeem them in the eyes of consumers.

It would be absolutely amazing to have competing products the whole way up the stack though. Top tier cards might actually go down instead of up in price over their lifecycle!

I would say they don't even need to beat the 3080 to be successful. If they just bring out a card that comes very close to the 3080 and then undercut it on price.

If you remember the HD4870 way back in 2008 - it didn't beat Nvidia's GTX 280 from the time, but it came very close while being priced at something like half the price too. Nvidia had no choice but to respond with very deep price cuts at the time. It would be great to see something like that again.

Most people would buy at the 3070 level of performance anyway so that's the more important one to nail.