New role after maternity leave

laylag

Hi all, I am looking for some advice. I am back to work a few months after mat leave. I do a very specific job that I had to start from scratch and build all procedures etc. It didn't exist before I started it. When I was gone on mat leave a girl (junior to me) took on my role. My boss mentioned to me while I was off that she really liked the job and wanted to stay on and my boss wanted me to come back in a manager position (from assistant mgr level) and be in charge of the new girl. I said yes I would be interested in that. This was almost a year ago. The new girl won an award for doing my job while I was on mat leave at our work Christmas party which I attended while still on mat leave. I am now back in work 3 months. The new girl is still in my job and I still have my old job title. So we are technically both in the same role currently. I had to put together a job spec for my new role which I did and met with my manager over the last few months to get all objectives agreed. I met again with my manager last week. She said my current salary is 42.5k and I would be going up to 48k with the new role so I thought great about a 5k increase. But she said I wouldn't get a manager job title as there are too many managers in the company. I disputed this and said I only agreed to the new structure if I had the title. I have been assistant manager 7 or 8 years (3 years in current role and 5 in another department as assistant manager). I am in the company 13 years. She has gone off to see if she can get this agreed for me and I have to wait for this outcome. In the mean time I worked out my salary from my payslip and its 44k which means the increase will only be 3k per year. I would have more accountability and would have to manage the new girl as well and do all her objectives etc. What do ye think? Is 3k enough of an increase of I was to get the title? I'm feeling quite vulnerable as I am only back a few months from mat leave so trying not to make a huge fuss but don't want to be a mug at the same time.... Help! Also to note, I like my job and they are good to me in general and have been flexible letting me do the odd day from home etc. Appreciate any advice.

_Brian

Your coming back to an equal or improved position at work so there’s no discrimination following your maternity.

It sounds like your manager is doing their best to secure what ye talked about but is struggling to get maybe HR to do final signoff.

I’m not sure what your options are really, perhaps the other person could take the lead position and you do the exact role you were doing before, maybe they would be happy to do it for the extra €3k and without being called “manager”

CelticRambler

What's the big deal with the title of your potential new role? Does anyone other than you really care, especially if you've no intention of applying for a job in a completely different company?

Also

laylag wrote: »

In the mean time I worked out my salary from my payslip and its 44k ...

if you didn't already know what you were earning, does it matter how much of an increase you're being offered?

Rather than getting hung-up on labels and token gestures, acknowledge that you've got a pretty good deal: come back from maternity leave to be rewarded with recognition of your previous competence, career advancement and a pay rise. There are plenty of post-maternity leave women who would be mad jealous to be in your position!

laylag

CelticRambler wrote:

What's the big deal with the title of your potential new role? Does anyone other than you really care, especially if you've no intention of applying for a job in a completely different company?

From a career progression point of view I would like the title if I am going to have a lot more responsibility and accountability.
Regarding the salary as I had been on unpaid leave for some time I didn't have the exact number in my mind as the meeting with my manager was not planned.
Thanks for your reply... Maybe I am being difficult. I just don't want to take on a lot of extra work if it's not going to be worth it financially. As I said I like where I work and have good relationship with my manager and appreciate that. Thanks again.

Batgurl

OP, if you discussed manager title and €48k salary, do not accept anything less. Otherwise you are marked as a pushover.

Leave your maternity leave out of this as the other poster is right, it’s nothing to do with this.

As a regular employee going for a promotion, if I was being played around like you I’d be pulling them up quick smart.

You’ve been back 3 months now, done the job of managing the new employee and proven your worth. You either get the title and pay rise discussed or you return to your original duties.

Also, €44k up from €42.5k is only a €1.5k increase (or 3.5%) which is frankly pathetic, even as a cost of living increase. €48k is a 13% increase which is acceptable but I’d be pushing for more....always push for more.

Good luck OP. Please see the value in yourself. You’ve 13 years of solid experience in that company. If you decided to move on, any company would see you as loyal, filled with experience and committed. They are the bigger idiots if they can’t see that.

Strumms

Good advice from Batgurl ^.

Sit down with them, remind them in a clear and concise manner exactly what had been agreed,

Remind them when and where that conversation took place and who was party to it.

Enquire what is being done to ensure this commitment is being brought to action.

Enquire what timeframe is to be expected for implementation.

Enquire if as is likely they try and put you on the long finger, why a pay rise, offered and agreed xx weeks ago is still not active and actioned.

Enquire if they believe that this kind of inefficiency and heel dragging of commitments is representative of a fair workplace.


Basically they pinned you into a corner, pin them to the wall, smartly.

CelticRambler

Batgurl wrote: »

OP, if you discussed manager title and €48k salary, do not accept anything less. Otherwise you are marked as a pushover.

Leave your maternity leave out of this as the other poster is right, it’s nothing to do with this.

Strumms wrote: »

Basically they pinned you into a corner, pin them to the wall, smartly.

Jeez, if the OP came to me with an attitude like that, I'd say "feck it", put her back in her old job and promote the new girl.

The OP's maternity leave does have something to do with this. Everything, in fact: it gave the employer a chance to put someone else into the role, to challenge them and see how they reacted. According to the OP, NewGirl was a roaring success.

Now (in the employer's eyes) OP comes back from maternity leave and the law requires that she's allowed take up her old role. Strictly speaking, NewGirl should have been pushed aside, but the employer decided that is was in their interests to create an additional role and keep two good employees. So OP was offered career progression and extra money, but (in the employer's eyes) she's having a hissy fit because she doesn't get a new label - one that's already so common in the business that there are "too many".

It seems I'm coming at this from an entirely different perspective, which is probably because I work in an environment where everyone has the same title and the only thing that counts is your reputation for doing a good job; unless the OP is thinking of applying for a position in another company, her status in this one - and future promotion prospects - will be judged on her work, not her title.

OP has been in this company 13 years. That stands for a lot.
She obviously likes the company and the work which is a huge plus and not something I’d undervalue.
In this case I’d be happy to accept the pay rise to €48K and the extra responsibilities. If there is issue over the actual title I’d let that go. I wouldn’t let go the agreed pay rise to €48 K !

I wouldn’t mind being left as AM with extra money and responsibilities especially when there is now the extra responsibility of a baby to get home to and the chance you might need a bit more flexibility and understanding if under pressure when baby gets sick / first day at school etc etc etc

However I would also bring up the fact you want the title promotion to Manager at your next PR and I’d keep reminding them of that!

Batgurl

CelticRambler wrote: »

The OP's maternity leave does have something to do with this. Everything, in fact: it gave the employer a chance to put someone else into the role, to challenge them and see how they reacted. According to the OP, NewGirl was a roaring success.

Now (in the employer's eyes) OP comes back from maternity leave and the law requires that she's allowed take up her old role. Strictly speaking, NewGirl should have been pushed aside, but the employer decided that is was in their interests to create an additional role and keep two good employees. So OP was offered career progression and extra money, but (in the employer's eyes) she's having a hissy fit because she doesn't get a new label - one that's already so common in the business that there are "too many".

It seems I'm coming at this from an entirely different perspective, which is probably because I work in an environment where everyone has the same title and the only thing that counts is your reputation for doing a good job; unless the OP is thinking of applying for a position in another company, her status in this one - and future promotion prospects - will be judged on her work, not her title.

This attitude is everything that is wrong with today’s working environment.

It shouldn’t matter if the new girl cured cancer AND saved the orangutans, no employer should be using maternity leave IN ANY WAY to benchmark an employee or decide they aren’t good enough or move them on.

You said it yourself, they offered her career progression (in the form of a promotion) and a pay rise, and she’s having a hissy fit because they reneged on both. Which she is 100% right to do. Would you be okay with starting a new job, agreeing a senior title and salary and on your first day being told they got it wrong and you are actually a junior and due €4k less than agreed?

OP please don’t listen to the “advice” from the above poster who clearly has an agenda.

I’d bet heavy that they are both male and childless to have an opinion like that.

screamer

No discrimination here regarding maternity leave. The law is that you come back to your old role or a higher one, there’s no mention of salary increases either. In fact in a lot of companies managers can earn less than their direct reports.
A title- well that’s not something that’s be important to me anyways, but flexibility and a company being good to me are, not a lot of companies that are being honest.
You need to weigh up the pros and cons, but tbh op it does sound like sour grapes that the new girl did a better job of your job than you did.......which is not the kind of attitude a manager should have.

CelticRambler

Batgurl wrote: »

OP please don’t listen to the “advice” from the above poster who clearly has an agenda.

I’d bet heavy that they are both male and childless to have an opinion like that.

No agenda, just someone who stands in for a lot of women on maternity leave and sees lots of different employers faced with similar situations.

And yep, I'm male ... but the first line on my CV reads "Father of 4" because that's far more important to me than any professional label.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Enquire if they believe that this kind of inefficiency and heel dragging of commitments is representative of a fair workplace.


Basically they pinned you into a corner, pin them to the wall, smartly.

When you have asked that, then enquire what are your chances of future pay increases/promotions

Tell me how

Batgurl wrote: »

OP, if you discussed manager title and €48k salary, do not accept anything less. Otherwise you are marked as a pushover.

Leave your maternity leave out of this as the other poster is right, it’s nothing to do with this.

As a regular employee going for a promotion, if I was being played around like you I’d be pulling them up quick smart.

You’ve been back 3 months now, done the job of managing the new employee and proven your worth. You either get the title and pay rise discussed or you return to your original duties.

Also, €44k up from €42.5k is only a €1.5k increase (or 3.5%) which is frankly pathetic, even as a cost of living increase. €48k is a 13% increase which is acceptable but I’d be pushing for more....always push for more.

Good luck OP. Please see the value in yourself. You’ve 13 years of solid experience in that company. If you decided to move on, any company would see you as loyal, filled with experience and committed. They are the bigger idiots if they can’t see that.

This sounds like the attitude of someone bid rather not have working for me to be honest.

Batgurl

Tell me how wrote: »

This sounds like the attitude of someone bid rather not have working for me to be honest.

Thankfully there are plenty of good profitable employers out there who don’t share your attitude and small mindedness and actually value employees who know the worth of a good asset.

If an employee can’t even fight for the best for themselves, they are never gonna push for the best for their company.

Batgurl

CelticRambler wrote: »

No agenda, just someone who stands in for a lot of women on maternity leave and sees lots of different employers faced with similar situations.

And yep, I'm male ... but the first line on my CV reads "Father of 4" because that's far more important to me than any professional label.

You are biased because you are seeing it from the employers point of view, not the employees. You’ve only ever been “the other girl” and not the woman coming back from maternity leave.

No employee, maternity leave or otherwise, should ever settle for less if they agreed more. If a promotion, title change and pay rise was discussed and agreed, then OP should get it.

rock22

Batgurl wrote: »

..

No employee, maternity leave or otherwise, should ever settle for less if they agreed more. If a promotion, title change and pay rise was discussed and agreed, then OP should get it.

All of these, pay rise, promotion and title change, are the gift of the employer - there is no entitlement .
The OP is entitles to reject the offer of pay rise and promotion is she is unhappy. If it were me, I would take what was on offer and battle for a title on another day.

Tell me how

Batgurl wrote: »

Thankfully there are plenty of good profitable employers out there who don’t share your attitude and small mindedness and actually value employees who know the worth of a good asset.

If an employee can’t even fight for the best for themselves, they are never gonna push for the best for their company.

Well, I managed a team of people for 12 years and my experience was exclusively that those that fought as you outlined for themselves felt that the company owed them everything and actually took pleasure in seeing the company struggle as "it'll teach them a lesson".

Let me just repeat that so there is no confusion, those that were focused in exclusively demanding (again, as you outlined the OP should do) that they get pay rises and titles (that they felt they were owed) had little or no interest in doing their job beyond the minimum they thought they could get away with.

skallywag

For me the crux of the issue here is pretty clear. It seems likely that your boss setup an expectation which ultimately lead to disappointment because she had not checked her bases first to make sure that she could actually deliver on what she was telling you. I have seen this happen often myself (and have also been on the receiving end of it) and it is a really lousy situation.

That said, it could also be the case of course that something has genuinely happened in the meantime to change the landscape, after all twelve months can be a long time. That said if I had been in your boss's position I would have let you know as soon as I myself knew that the tide had turned, that is only fair considering I was the one who set the expectation in the first place.

As for how to go forward now, if the new role is something that was genuinely interesting to me, and if it's coming with a pay rise if even modest, then I think I would be taking it. Sometimes it is better to just be pragmatic, i.e. what do you hope to gain by not taking it?

I guess that it could also be the case that your boss now sees the new girl as more of a potential to promote instead of you. It could be a good time to ask you boss for a frank one to one discussion, particularly if you have a good relationship with her and she tends to act in a genuine way.

Batgurl

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, I managed a team of people for 12 years and my experience was exclusively that those that fought as you outlined for themselves felt that the company owed them everything and actually took pleasure in seeing the company struggle as "it'll teach them a lesson".

Let me just repeat that so there is no confusion, those that were focused in exclusively demanding (again, as you outlined the OP should do) that they get pay rises and titles (<b>that they felt they were owed</b>) had little or no interest in doing their job beyond the minimum they thought they could get away with.

They don’t “feel they were owed it”. They had a discussion, a commitment was made and agreed. The OP was asked to make a job plan and manage the new staff member. The OP has held up her part of the agreement. It’s not expecting too much for the employer to hold up theirs.

skallywag

Batgurl wrote: »

...They had a discussion, a commitment was made and agreed...

I would agree completely with this.

Sure, one can argue that there is no entitlement but I would have been very disappointed if I was in the OP's position, particularly when there may be an inkling that my replacement is being perceived as doing a better job than I was (I am not saying that this is the case at all, but I guess that the OP may feel this way based on what she has written).

Nelbert

OP - my two cents having been in a similar situation centring on promotion and pay rise....

Consider the difference of opinions and perceptions within this thread..... they are reflective of how divisive this issue could be for you and your manager and any team members or HR colleagues etc that are aware of the situation.

Enquire about the pay rise.... like it was a payroll mistake.... politely remind you expect the title change “in time” on the basis that you expect it will help with progressing within the company if your title reflects your new responsibilities....

Mostly.... appreciate the potential for how being too firm could be viewed..... as much as being assertive is usually a good thing, diplomacy and negotiation are also quite valued.

Don’t burn a bridge when it could cost you more in being potentially overlooked for future opportunities if you develop a perception of being difficult by handling this situation badly.

TimeToShine

To be honest I think the OP should definitely get the salary bump they discussed and the fact that the following months pay was not as discussed is unacceptable. Having said that I find something enormously smug about someone coming back from maternity leave and not just expecting but demanding a big pay bump and a manager title. If the job was so specialized the new girl wouldn't be waltzing in and winning awards for doing it, I daresay in the ruthless US you'd be deemed as surplus to requirements but of course that isn't how we do things here (and rightly so). You are entitled to come back at the same or a higher level and your manager is trying their best to take care of you, some of the advice here would make you look selfish beyond belief. I re-iterate that the pay element of this is unacceptable as it was firmly agreed but regarding the title you could take a step or two back for everyone's sake.