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Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

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    #3032
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    I like Keith Lee however he isn't a star and probably never will be.

    Ok, well he has the potential to be a star.

    Look at the reaction he got last Survivor Series. He was over. He can go in the ring, he can cut a great promo, in a unique way and despite what McMahon thinks, has a great look.

    This guy has all the tools. Do Ihave faith in WWE to make him a star.... no.

    But the man has it.


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    #3033
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,646 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    WWE will open a PC center in India as well as NXT India and NXT India will be fronted by Jinder and the Singh brothers.


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    #3034
    jaykhunter
    Registered Users Posts: 12,013 ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    WWE will open a PC center in India as well as NXT India and NXT India will be fronted by Jinder and the Singh brothers.

    Jinder Unhindered! YEAHHHHHHH


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    #3035
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,646 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    KO saying the original plans for WM34 were for him and Sami to wrestle Shane and Vince that would have been the pay off to KO headbutting Vince.


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    #3036
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Jaysus I'm sick looking at those Mania plans. I usually get some sort of interest back around Rumble time but that's put me right off. Drizzling sh1ts isn't a fair enough description of what those plans look like


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    #3037
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Necro wrote: »
    Jaysus I'm sick looking at those Mania plans. I usually get some sort of interest back around Rumble time but that's put me right off. Drizzling sh1ts isn't a fair enough description of what those plans look like

    I feel like this conversation happens every year. WWE have mostly put on decent PPVs even with the lack of fans. I feel the card wont be there down fall.

    What will kill Mania for me will be the lack of fans. The spectacle wont be there. They got a free pass last Mania due to Covid but I fail to see how they can make it stand out from anyother PPV.


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    #3038
    weareallmarks
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭weareallmarks


    That is nonsense, they tell the wrestlers that to make them feel important. They used to tell punk he 'was a main event' but he never was.

    Same with owens. Are the fans in the ring or watching the show???
    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    KO saying the original plans for WM34 were for him and Sami to wrestle Shane and Vince that would have been the pay off to KO headbutting Vince.


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    #3039
    bennyl10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    weareallmarks wrote: »
    That is nonsense, they tell the wrestlers that to make them feel important. They used to tell punk he 'was a main event' but he never was.

    Same with owens. Are the fans in the ring or watching the show???

    Punk was continuously Main Event? He was their main champion?

    You cant in all seriousness say he wasn't top billing


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    #3040
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    Punk was continuously Main Event? He was their main champion?

    You cant in all seriousness say he wasn't top billing

    He did never main event a Mania as champion tho, something that always haunted him and often his feud played second fiddle to some others during his 400 day plus reign.


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    #3041
    ThePott
    Registered Users Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭ThePott


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    Punk was continuously Main Event? He was their main champion?

    You cant in all seriousness say he wasn't top billing
    Frequently during his run as champion his match was not the final main event on PPVs instead it was Cena. Look at the stint of PPVs in 2012 when Punk was champion.


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    #3042
    weareallmarks
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭weareallmarks


    Punk never was in a mania where he was 1 of the top 4 highest paid on the show

    So NO he was never a main event. It is all about the money.
    bennyl10 wrote: »
    Punk was continuously Main Event? He was their main champion?

    You cant in all seriousness say he wasn't top billing


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    #3043
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    weareallmarks wrote: »
    Punk never was in a mania where he was 1 of the top 4 highest paid on the show

    So NO he was never a main event. It is all about the money.

    Totally agree it's all about the money. Cannot agree more.
    But Punk was a merchandise machine. He bet Cena to the top spot in 2011 ( https://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone/news/242982-exclusive-cena-no-longer-the-1-wwe-merch-seller-new-1 ) to give an example.

    I will take your word that Punk was never within the top 4 highest paid at a mania - but at the same time, Punk was raking in millions each year. So he was a main eventer because as you say (and I agree) it's all about the money. He wasn't jerking the curtain. He was booked as the champ during several programmes and his merch was like having a US mint printing press at Titan Towers.


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    #3044
    weareallmarks
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭weareallmarks


    Mate he was rarely in closing ppv matches. He sold tshirts, well done thats great, but he was never the main event of a mania. he has mentioned himself loads of times that he didnt get paid with the top 2 matches got paid at a mania.

    I like the fella, but he wasnt what you think he was.
    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Totally agree it's all about the money. Cannot agree more.
    But Punk was a merchandise machine. He bet Cena to the top spot in 2011 ( https://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone/news/242982-exclusive-cena-no-longer-the-1-wwe-merch-seller-new-1 ) to give an example.

    I will take your word that Punk was never within the top 4 highest paid at a mania - but at the same time, Punk was raking in millions each year. So he was a main eventer because as you say (and I agree) it's all about the money. He wasn't jerking the curtain. He was booked as the champ during several programmes and his merch was like having a US mint printing press at Titan Towers.


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    #3045
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    weareallmarks wrote: »
    Mate he was rarely in closing ppv matches. He sold tshirts, well done thats great, but he was never the main event of a mania. he has mentioned himself loads of times that he didnt get paid with the top 2 matches got paid at a mania.

    I like the fella, but he wasnt what you think he was.

    Saying he wasn't in the main event of a mania doesn't mean that much when you consider he was up against 'Twice in a Lifetime'


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    #3046
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Saying he wasn't in the main event of a mania doesn't mean that much when you consider he was up against 'Twice in a Lifetime'

    And didnt he legitimately get a new contract before MITB 2011.

    While not on Rock or Cena money, Im sure he made plenty.


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    #3047
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    weareallmarks wrote: »
    Mate he was rarely in closing ppv matches. He sold tshirts, well done thats great, but he was never the main event of a mania. he has mentioned himself loads of times that he didnt get paid with the top 2 matches got paid at a mania.

    I like the fella, but he wasnt what you think he was.

    But didn't you just say it's all about the money?

    Which punk was clearly making. I'm sorry but I don't get your point.


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    #3048
    weareallmarks
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭weareallmarks


    Fairly simple, go on last means your probably making the most money. He never went on last at a mania, never got into the top 2 matches at mania. Its about the money.
    He left because he wasnt making the main event money...........
    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    But didn't you just say it's all about the money?

    Which punk was clearly making. I'm sorry but I don't get your point.


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    #3049
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    weareallmarks wrote: »
    Fairly simple, go on last means your probably making the most money. He never went on last at a mania, never got into the top 2 matches at mania. Its about the money.
    He left because he wasnt making the main event money...........

    Punk, IMO, never left over money. Have you anything evidence to suggest that.

    My view was that he was sick of working their as the enviroment was toxic and he had enough money to bail.


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    #3050
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Punk, IMO, never left over money. Have you anything evidence to suggest that.

    My view was that he was sick of working their as the enviroment was toxic and he had enough money to bail.

    He was a mark for the business. Cared about booking, his card position ect. That's not a criticism, wouldn't mind a few more wrestlers like him in today's wrestling. Everyone is far too compliant/happy to accept whatever nonsense they're given.


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    #3051
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    He was a mark for the business. Cared about booking, his card position ect. That's not a criticism, wouldn't mind a few more wrestlers like him in today's wrestling. Everyone is far too compliant/happy to accept whatever nonsense they're given.

    My own perception if him was that he wanted to be the Cena Hogan, main guy in WWE for his own ego rather than the money. He believed in himself and wanted to be the top guy for his own glory rather any financial gain.

    I view him as a star in the same way I view HHH, Batista and Edge. A main event level talent but hes not in the league of ssy a Bret or HBK and way off being a Rock or Hogan.

    I never had him down as a man after a big pay day though


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    #3052
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    My own perception if him was that he wanted to be the Cena Hogan, main guy in WWE for his own ego rather than the money. He believed in himself and wanted to be the top guy for his own glory rather any financial gain.

    I view him as a star in the same way I view HHH, Batista and Edge. A main event level talent but hes not in the league of ssy a Bret or HBK and way off being a Rock or Hogan.

    I never had him down as a man after a big pay day though

    I don't think money was the driving force behind him leaving, by the time he'd left I think he'd fallen out of love with wrestling. There's a larger conversation to be had about WWE and lifelong wrestling fans turned wrestlers falling out of love with wrestling after a prolonged stint in the company but between that, his body starting to break down, his perceived grievances with how he was presented on TV all led to him having enough. The money was a secondary issue at best.


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    #3053
    Chuck Noland
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭Chuck Noland


    Wonder will the ratings slump make Vince throw a pile of money at him to return?


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    #3054
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Chuck Noland wrote: »
    Wonder will the ratings slump make Vince throw a pile of money at him to return?

    Knowing Punk he would fein interest, make Vince offer him crazy money only to reject it and work for a small fee with AEW.

    I think Punk will eventually pop up in AEW when fans return.

    He could pay for the Cult of Personality theme too to ensure a big pop.


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    #3055
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    Chuck Noland wrote: »
    Wonder will the ratings slump make Vince throw a pile of money at him to return?

    I don't think so. And i don't think ratings are as important as they once were. The entire model on how people consume their entertainment content has changed. Streaming services are the winners here. I'm unsurprised by the dwindling numbers. It's getting some of those that consume their content via streaming over onto the WWE Network that will be the trick.


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    #3056
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,175 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Mandalorian
    Sasha Banks put Boba Fett through a table with a jetpack-assisted swinging DDT.

    Also, from that post-credit scene it looks like her character has become a whole lot bigger.

    Not a sentence I ever thought I'd type.

    Also, that episode was fúcking amazing!


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    #3057
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I haven't been tempted to check it out yet. Causal Star Wars fan, is it worth watching if your not a mad fan?


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    #3058
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,175 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    I haven't been tempted to check it out yet. Causal Star Wars fan, is it worth watching if your not a mad fan?

    I think so. There's stuff there for the hardcores, like some spin-off characters showing up, but it's a very easy watch. You don't need to know a Wikipedia-worth of lore going in.

    The most recent episode, for example, had something big that would appeal to the most casual of fans.


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    #3059
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,646 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    I don't think so. And i don't think ratings are as important as they once were. The entire model on how people consume their entertainment content has changed. Streaming services are the winners here. I'm unsurprised by the dwindling numbers. It's getting some of those that consume their content via streaming over onto the WWE Network that will be the trick.

    The ratings matter networks don’t pay billions so for products otherwise.

    The networks don’t pay billions for people to view products on youtube, Twitter and Facebook clips or the WWE network.

    If the rating and rights demos aren’t hit they won’t be paying billions in the next round of bidding.

    The WWE is surviving right now on that TV money not streaming YouTube clips.


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    #3060
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    I don't think so. And i don't think ratings are as important as they once were. The entire model on how people consume their entertainment content has changed. Streaming services are the winners here. I'm unsurprised by the dwindling numbers. It's getting some of those that consume their content via streaming over onto the WWE Network that will be the trick.

    For WWE ratings have probably never been more important. Their existence right now is tied directly to those TV contracts. They've got runway, this year is the start of their new deal, but when those contracts come up again in years from now we'll see where we're at. Who knows what state wrestling will be in at that point, but if we project out how they've done the last few years, the trend they are on at the moment, then there could be trouble in the future. The reason these networks pay huge money to WWE is that they are usually a reliable draw with the 18-49 (particularly males in that age group) and it's one of the cheapest forms of live sport to produce. If, when those contracts are up, the 18-49 keeps going down, then naturally these companies will pay less. And the idea that TV is down is misleading, given that, percentage wise, WWE has lost a larger percentage of their audience than basically any other live TV sport brand in mainstream American television.

    And pinning their hopes on the WWE Network is a hope that's long dead. Think about it like this, when WWE launched the Network (which is when you'd get the biggest percentage of conversion in terms of turnover of casual viewers to paying customers) they had an average Raw audience in 2013 of around 4.13 million (according to Google at least), about double what Smackdown does now on FOX (still never fails to shock me). If you could not convert 50% of those people to pay 1/6th the price of a normal PPV (an insanely good price point and still couldn't get people to take it up) back in 2014 when the value of their ppv back then was 60 dollars, how in 2020 would you expect people who now are numb to WWE ppvs costing 10 dollars to take up the WWE network en masse? They never came close to hitting the 3 million subscriber target, the focus on the Network has more or less subsided, be in no doubt, in 2020 WWE is a TV content provider, their existence is based on that.


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    #3061
    oldtimeyfella
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 382 ✭✭oldtimeyfella


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    For WWE ratings have probably never been more important. Their existence right now is tied directly to those TV contracts. They've got runway, this year is the start of their new deal, but when those contracts come up again in years from now we'll see where we're at. Who knows what state wrestling will be in at that point, but if we project out how they've done the last few years, the trend they are on at the moment, then there could be trouble in the future. The reason these networks pay huge money to WWE is that they are usually a reliable draw with the 18-49 (particularly males in that age group) and it's one of the cheapest forms of live sport to produce. If, when those contracts are up, the 18-49 keeps going down, then naturally these companies will pay less. And the idea that TV is down is misleading, given that, percentage wise, WWE has lost a larger percentage of their audience than basically any other live TV sport brand in mainstream American television.

    And pinning their hopes on the WWE Network is a hope that's long dead. Think about it like this, when WWE launched the Network (which is when you'd get the biggest percentage of conversion in terms of turnover of casual viewers to paying customers) they had an average Raw audience in 2013 of around 4.13 million (according to Google at least), about double what Smackdown does now on FOX (still never fails to shock me). If you could not convert 50% of those people to pay 1/6th the price of a normal PPV (an insanely good price point and still couldn't get people to take it up) back in 2014 when the value of their ppv back then was 60 dollars, how in 2020 would you expect people who now are numb to WWE ppvs costing 10 dollars to take up the WWE network en masse? They never came close to hitting the 3 million subscriber target, the focus on the Network has more or less subsided, be in no doubt, in 2020 WWE is a TV content provider, their existence is based on that.


    The biggest problem with the Network is that Raw and Smackdown are delayed by 2 (?) months on it. NXT used to be new original programming that was exclsuive to the network but that's on TV now so that another USP of the Network gone.

    Also, the ability to just make a throw away trial account to watch the RR or Mania is enough for some people. They aren't sticking around for the June 7th 1997 episode of Nitro.


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